Kidnapped Italian Reporter Freed...Then Shot at by US Forces (Italian Secret Service Agent Killed)

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Darkhawk28

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Dec 22, 2000
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Darkhawk28

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Eason Jordan of CNN was right. They ARE targetting journalists that could expose what happened in Fallujah.
 

dphantom

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2005
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[/quote]

Yeah the U.S. never misses. Look at Castro.
We got Bin Laden, right?
How long did it take us to find Saddam?
We're only perfect and invincible in your mind.
[/quote]

I never said the US was perfect or invincible. Just that I prefer to believe the US over otehr sources until proven otherwise. It helps in debate to accurately quote your debater otherwise you lose points.
 

maddogchen

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2004
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Wow its reporting the Italians might have paid upwards of $10 million (8 mil Euros) for her release. Thats CRRRAAAZZZZEEEEEEE! :Q
 

Darkhawk28

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Dec 22, 2000
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Originally posted by: maddogchen
Wow its reporting the Italians might have paid upwards of $10 million (8 mil Euros) for her release. Thats CRRRAAAZZZZEEEEEEE! :Q

That wouldn't surprise me, but that wasn't our decision. But it was our decision to condone ourselves the way we did after her release.
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
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Originally posted by: Gaard
Where is this being reported?

It's not a secret that the Italian government negotiated her release, but I'll look for a specific link if he won't.

Edit: Although, I can't say for sure about the alleged ransom. That has yet to fully become clear.
 

maddogchen

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2004
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sorry. I read it from a Reuters article saying what I guess is some newspapers in Italy:

Although Italy has denied paying kidnappers in past hostage releases, Agriculture Minister Gianni Alemanno told the Corriere that "very probably" a large ransom had been paid in this case. Newspapers spoke of sums of up to 8 million euros ($10 million).

Text
 

Darkhawk28

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Dec 22, 2000
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Originally posted by: maddogchen
sorry. I read it from a Reuters article saying what I guess is some newspapers in Italy:

Although Italy has denied paying kidnappers in past hostage releases, Agriculture Minister Gianni Alemanno told the Corriere that "very probably" a large ransom had been paid in this case. Newspapers spoke of sums of up to 8 million euros ($10 million).

Text

Like I said, it wouldn't surprise me, but it's still no reason to try to kill the woman... "allegedly".
 

dphantom

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Jan 14, 2005
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Originally posted by: Gaard
Damn. That woman's hat size must be huge. ;)

Huge??!! Must be enormous. :Q Great that the it seems some Italians are supporting terrorists by paying ransom. Worst thign to do in any kidnapping is pay for the release of the hostage. Only encourages others to do the same. :|
 

Gaard

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Feb 17, 2002
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I hope it didn't open up any can of worms. Like now that they've paid for this woman's release aren't they obligated to pay for the release of any other Italian taken prisoner?
 

jpeyton

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Aug 23, 2003
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Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
"Pier Scolari, companion to Sgrena, has stated the attack was deliberate, according to Agence France Presse. "The Americans and Italians knew about (her) car coming," Scolari said. "They were 700 meters (yards) from the airport, which means that they had passed all checkpoints. Giuliana had information, and the US military did not want her to survive.""

They were 700 meters from the airport and had past all the checkpoints previously... GRRRR!!!

I honestly wonder what their cover story would have been if they properly executed all the occupants of the car. Perhaps they would have "hit an insurgent IED" or something.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
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Originally posted by: Gaard
I hope it didn't open up any can of worms. Like now that they've paid for this woman's release aren't they obligated to pay for the release of any other Italian taken prisoner?

Maybe another possible reason they wanted her dead, to prevent any further paying of ransoms.
 

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
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Some seriously wild speculation happening here. Wouldn't it be reasonable to reserve outlandish conspiracy theories until more facts are known? It wouldn't serve people's inner seething hate, but it might make for more rational discussion...
 

dphantom

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Jan 14, 2005
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Originally posted by: Gaard
I hope it didn't open up any can of worms. Like now that they've paid for this woman's release aren't they obligated to pay for the release of any other Italian taken prisoner?

Maybe not. This is not the first hostage in Iraq freed by giving in to terrorists and paying a ransom. So the precedent had already been set. I just wish some of the commentators on this thread actually cared how these thugs are murdering hundreds of Iraqi civilians instead of finding gratuitous reasons to bash the US when the only facts in play are stories from two sides one of which has had an anti-US agenda for years.

 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
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Originally posted by: Gaard
Who cares if she was just freed from being a prisoner. It's her own damn fault! Who else are we supposed to blame? The US? Pffft. Yeah, like we're less than perfect in everything we do.













Apologists suck.

Yeah, apologists for muslim extremist terrorists suck more. And apologists for Saddam and his brutal ways suck more.

I'm sick of you people saying our military deliberatly bombed the speeding cars. Give me damn proof they did it on purpose KNOWING it was innocent Italians in the cars.
 

arsbanned

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Dec 12, 2003
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Originally posted by: dphantom

Yeah the U.S. never misses. Look at Castro.
We got Bin Laden, right?
How long did it take us to find Saddam?
We're only perfect and invincible in your mind.
[/quote]

I never said the US was perfect or invincible. Just that I prefer to believe the US over otehr sources until proven otherwise. It helps in debate to accurately quote your debater otherwise you lose points.[/quote]






Originally posted by: dphantom


If she were in fact such a target, I can asssure you the US would not have missed.

You said the U.S can't miss. I provided evidence to the contrary.


 

dphantom

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2005
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Your analogies are all mixed up. If Castro or Bin Laden were in a speeding car at night heading toward Baghdad IAP, I am pretty sure we would not have missed.

Castro is a political leader who could not be assasinated outright but US had to work thru 3rd parties who failed.

Bin Laden is or was in a country the size of Texas about whom we did not have confirmed whereabouts.

A car on a road at night with its lights on is a bit easier target.
 

Votingisanillusion

Senior member
Nov 6, 2004
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Originally posted by: Aegeon
Originally posted by: jpeyton
If you've seen Control Room, you'd already know the US military isn't above assassinating journalists they don't like.

I'm sure there will be some "intelligence" or "insurgent chatter" that will surface about an attempt to suicide bomb a US checkpoint that very same day :roll:

I hope our military's ability to win hearts and minds translates into a full Itailian withdrawal of support from Iraq.
Frankly this is an outright illogical position. I haven't seen any explanation on why the US wouldn't have made it appear to be an insurgent attack to avoid the bad press from things going the way it did. It also makes no sense on why the US would have stopped with what is actually a fairly limited machine gun burst. If it was an assassination attempt, they should have kept firing until they were sure everyone was dead. While slighly worse PR on one hand, that way there wouldn't have been anyone to contradict claims that they were outright inexplicably trying to run a road block. This incident doesn't make sense if you examine it as an assassination attempt given the other options the US had and what they could have done different with the incident itself if that had been the case.

The Empire wants to send a clear message to the independant journalists who criticize the Empire. One is shot once in a while, by the mercenaries of the Empire. How can you be surprised by the arrogance of the Empire, drunk with power?
And how dare you believe the Pentagon, the same Pentagon caught lying in Vietnam even about the start of the war! The same Pentagon that killed millions of innocent human beings in Vietnam. The very same Pentagon that poisoned Vietnam for decades, or even centuries.
You must be mad. As mad as those who believe the media corporations feeding them the lies of the Pentagon.





Giuliana Told US Wouldn't Let Her Return Home Alive
US Soldiers Prevented First Aid After Shooting
From Jueri Svjagintsev
deepeddy@texasdata.net
3-6-5


"The US soldiers prevented first aid for several minutes and prevented anyone from coming near the car", said Pier Scolari as he entered Celio (military) hospital. "Giuliana had had information that the USA wouldn't let her return home alive.

Giuliana Sgrena and wounded Italian military intel agent have been interviewed by Italian magistrate... after he left she spoke with press, said it was a PATROL not a checkpoint - suddenly found themselves in that shot at them, shot immediately with no warning whatsoever, instant massive hail of bullets and no chance to communicate - confirms the car was NOT speeding, was travelling at slowish normal speed.

"Non era un check point, ma una pattuglia che ha sparato appena dopo averci illuminato con un faro. Non si è capita la provenienza dei proiettili, precedentemente non avevamo incontrato posti di blocco".

" IT WAS NOT A CHECKPOINT BUT A PATROL THAT SHOT AT US IMMEDIATELY AFTER HAVING TURNED A LIGHT ON US. WE COULDN?T UNDERSTAND WHERE THE BULLETS WERE COMING FROM, BEFORE THAT WE HADN'T ENCOUNTERED ANY CHECKPOINTS" --Giuliana Sgrena

http://www.repubblica.it/

On Mar 5, 2005, at 4:52 PM, Jueri Svjagintsev wrote:

Forum clips from a new Zealander living in Italy:

To give an idea of the climate here, this is today's front page on Il Manifesto - HUGE headlines:

Giuliana Sgrena è libera.
Gli americani sparano.
Assassinato il suo liberatore.
Si chiamava Nicola Calipari

Translation:
Giuliana Sgrena is free.
The Americans shoot,
murdering her liberator.
His name was Nicola Calipari.

In a first interview, Giuliana has said her kidnappers never mistreated her - said the WORST moment of her whole experience was the shooting and CALIPARI'S death ... ("in her arms" ...as he was lying on top of her, shielding her with his body during the shooting-massacre, died as she was clutching him... <icon_cry.gif )

So, if the US continues to "justify" these murders saying it was basically "all the victims' fault" as usual - i.e. unless they seriously eat crow, abjectly go down on bended knees which means at v. least court-martialing their checkpoint murder-squad - think they will soon be saying bye-bye to Italian "collaboration"!!

Latest from Giuliana's partner Scolari (from La Repubblica.it)

14:59 Scolari: "Militari Usa hanno impedito i soccorsi" "I militari Usa hanno impedito i soccorsi per alcuni minuti e hanno impedito che chiunque si avvicinasse all'auto". Lo ha detto Pier Scolari entrando all'ospedale del Celio. "Giuliana aveva avuto delle informazioni secondo le quali gli Usa non l'avrebbero lasciata tornare viva a casa. Il governo ha l'obbligo di fare luce e gli Usa devono avere il coraggio di dire che in Iraq siamo in mano a dei ragazzini", ha aggiunto Scolari.

US Soldiers Prevented First Aid.

"The US soldiers prevented first aid for several minutes and prevented anyone from coming near the car", said Pier Scolari as he entered Celio (military) hospital. "Giuliana had had information that the USA wouldn't let her return home alive. The Government must cast light on what happened and the USA must have the courage to say that in Iraq we are in the hands of teenagers", he added.

14:56 Scolari: "Giuliana ha raccolto manciate di proiettili"

"Giuliana ha raccolto decine di proiettili, a manciate, erano tutti sul sedile dopo la sparatoria". Lo ha detto Pier Scolari, aggiungendo che "Calipari aveva fatto quella strada tantissime volte e quindi si potrebbe pensare male: che gli americani non volevano il lieto fine. Questo è un motivo buono per andare via dall'Iraq".

"Giuliana has collected handfuls of bullets" "Giuliana collected dozens of bullets, by the handful, they were all on the carseat after the shooting", said Pier Scolari, adding that "Calipari had travelled along that road a great many times, so there is reason to suspect foul play: that the Americans didn't want the happy ending. This is a good reason to leave Iraq".

CNN's statement that "Sgrena's partner said he could not fault the U.S. soldiers, telling Reuters they were probably "scared boys," and the blame lay with those who had sent them to Iraq." is an outright LIE: what he is actually saying is a helluva-lot less "convenient" - he's calling the US military who shot at the car CRAZY TRIGGER-HAPPY LUNATICS, says they fired over 400 shots, attack lasted several minutes. Calling Calipari's death a MURDER, maybe a deliberate AMBUSH... says could have been a deliberate US assassination-attempt to stop Giuliana telling the truth about Fallujah!! Denies ANY attempt to warn car before opening fire. Confirms CAR WAS DRIVING SLOWLY, US FORCES HAD BEEN FULLY INFORMED THROUGH PROPER CHANNELS, ITALIAN MILITARY WERE WAITING FOR GIULIANA AT AIRPORT.

So CNN, is lying through its teeth! DOES NOT "look good" here that US is trying to justify and cast blame on victims. Also NOT even true that Italy is "celebrating" Giuliana's release.. all release-celebrations have been cancelled due to the shooting, Calipari's coffin will be greeted by heads of state, big state funeral - that's national mourning not "celebration", duh - both right and left grieved and furious, big big diplomatic tension -same climate throughout press and TV.
 

dphantom

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2005
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" IT WAS NOT A CHECKPOINT BUT A PATROL THAT SHOT AT US IMMEDIATELY AFTER HAVING TURNED A LIGHT ON US. WE COULDN?T UNDERSTAND WHERE THE BULLETS WERE COMING FROM, BEFORE THAT WE HADN'T ENCOUNTERED ANY CHECKPOINTS" --Giuliana Sgrena

See my post earlier. Military SOP is to make raodblocks roving to avoid being a sitting duck for suicide bombers. The fact they had not met a checkpoint earlier is irrelevant. If they had met a checkpoint earlier, tehey would have been shot earlier.

See link below that explains military matters to non-military minds.

http://www.orbat.com/
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
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Originally posted by: raildogg
Yeah, apologists for muslim extremist terrorists suck more. And apologists for Saddam and his brutal ways suck more.
Are you insinuating some on here are either? If the answer is yes, would you mind supplying names and quotes to support your accusation?

 

arsbanned

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Dec 12, 2003
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Originally posted by: dphantom
Your analogies are all mixed up. If Castro or Bin Laden were in a speeding car at night heading toward Baghdad IAP, I am pretty sure we would not have missed.

Castro is a political leader who could not be assasinated outright but US had to work thru 3rd parties who failed.

Bin Laden is or was in a country the size of Texas about whom we did not have confirmed whereabouts.

A car on a road at night with its lights on is a bit easier target.

blah blah blah. You didn't say anything in your previous response about mixed up analogies. Whatever. I'm sure you must be proud that the vaunted U.S. military almost killed a female reporter. Nice work.
 

dphantom

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2005
4,763
327
126
Originally posted by: arsbanned
Originally posted by: dphantom
Your analogies are all mixed up. If Castro or Bin Laden were in a speeding car at night heading toward Baghdad IAP, I am pretty sure we would not have missed.

Castro is a political leader who could not be assasinated outright but US had to work thru 3rd parties who failed.

Bin Laden is or was in a country the size of Texas about whom we did not have confirmed whereabouts.

A car on a road at night with its lights on is a bit easier target.

blah blah blah. You didn't say anything in your previous response about mixed up analogies. Whatever. I'm sure you must be proud that the vaunted U.S. military almost killed a female reporter. Nice work.


You've just made my point. Thank you! :thumbsup: :laugh: