Kickstarter Is The Biggest Scam On The Internet

[busydude]

It also somehow makes things "OK" for companies. I would never pre-buy a $10 Steam Game. Why would it? But now because it's on Kickstarter I should? Why should a game company get $1M, 8 months early?

That is because the person who is developing the game is well known among gamers. Check out the thread on PC gaming.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/02/09/thought-double-fines-kickstarter-asks-some-big-questions/

 

[Born2bwire]

Kickstarter is a scam because it allows people, like the game company in the OP, to abuse it. The idea of Kickstarter is to help people who have no means, realize their dreams. So stories like someone trying to build a camera strap from a Sketchup drawing but doesn't already own a machine shop or have manufacturing capabilities. That's what it's meant for.

But now, you have established companies with the means and talent to build or create products, using Kickstarter as a guaranteed PRE-ORDER service. There's nothing wrong with pre-selling products but on Kickstarter, you are misleading people into thinking you are some sort of poor college kid trying to get your first venture going.

It also somehow makes things "OK" for companies. I would never pre-buy a $10 Steam Game. Why would it? But now because it's on Kickstarter I should? Why should a game company get $1M, 8 months early?

I actually do doubt that Double Fine would be able to make this game without this. Double Fine has made some really fantastic games that have not been very good commercial successes (i.e. Pyschonauts) and they are proposing a game that's already in a genre that very few developers are doing these days. Outside of the small indies, Telltale is the only developer I can think of (especially in the US) that is still doing adventure games. So we've got a company that is going to have trouble getting publishers to sink money in them wanting to do a game in a genre that isn't getting investment anywhere. The upside though is that the company has done some great work and they have very promising talent (Ron Gilbert and Tim Schafer) on board for this.

Another contrast to take for example is that there have been a lot disappointments in adventure games because of the drop in its market. The big one for me was the cancellation of Lucasart's sequal to Sam and Max which was done after significant development work. I would be more than happy to preorder that game if it meant that they would go through and finish it.

Finally, this is a different model than what is normally on Kickstarter. Someone else finally used the word that I have been looking for, Kickstarter is mainly patronage. Take a look at the Order of the Stick Kickstarter, you have to pledge at least $30 to actually get a copy of a book which is what the project is meant to publish. So the primary purpose is to just get these products created because you want to see the product created and most of them are not going to give you an equivalent return on your pledge. But at least with the Double Fine project, you can get the product as your reward. So while this is a more established company, they are giving you more back than what many other projects promise.

 

[oogabooga]

i agree with this. kickstarter should only be for individuals/groups who dont have the means to bring the product to market. still dont think kickstarter is a scam though, because no one is getting scammed out of their money.

Yea, people are free to donate who they want to donate to, they directly donate so I don't get why someone would think this is a scam? I thought someone took the money and ran off with it or something with no intention of ever giving it, or Kickstarter charged some obscene fee.

 

[gorcorps]

I'm currently waiting on a modular set of headphones that I helped fund. IMO it's taking longer than it should because they're making decisions now that should have been made a long time ago, but at least we're getting regular updates about it all.

 

[Patranus]

Kickstarter is a scam because it allows people, like the game company in the OP, to abuse it. The idea of Kickstarter is to help people who have no means, realize their dreams. So stories like someone trying to build a camera strap from a Sketchup drawing but doesn't already own a machine shop or have manufacturing capabilities. That's what it's meant for.

But now, you have established companies with the means and talent to build or create products, using Kickstarter as a guaranteed PRE-ORDER service. There's nothing wrong with pre-selling products but on Kickstarter, you are misleading people into thinking you are some sort of poor college kid trying to get your first venture going.

It also somehow makes things "OK" for companies. I would never pre-buy a $10 Steam Game. Why would it? But now because it's on Kickstarter I should? Why should a game company get $1M, 8 months early?

Exactly.
Whats next, EA going to Kickstarter and raising money for the new Battlefield while the executives laugh all the way to the bank?

i agree with this. kickstarter should only be for individuals/groups who dont have the means to bring the product to market. still dont think kickstarter is a scam though, because no one is getting scammed out of their money.

'Scam' was probably not the best term to use.

 

[busydude]

Whats next, EA going to Kickstarter and raising money for the new Battlefield while the executives laugh all the way to the bank?

Did you watch the video BoomerD posted? Just watch that video and see how full of fail you are.

 

[sygyzy]

Ok sorry, you guys are right. I shouldn't have used the word "scam." It's not a scam because people know what they are getting into, but that doesn't make it right. Please come up with better arguments than "it's a free country" or "nobody's forcing you to."

I think Kickstarter should start banning these pre-order situations for existing, established companies just looking for a guaranteed pre-sale. What can this game company do for the game with $1M that they couldn't have done for $300K? Surely, they have the art and sound in place. You can tell this is a total joke to them because they have reward levels of $20k which buys you dinner and bowling with the team. No joke!

 

[Gooberlx2]

Whats next, EA going to Kickstarter and raising money for the new Battlefield while the executives laugh all the way to the bank?

Except that Kickstarter's policy is to disallow funding of large corps who have their own means to do things. Watch the video.

Honestly, DoubleFine, though a well established and respected studio, isn't anything like the publicly traded powerhouse game publisher that EA is. Not by orders of magnitude. As mentioned, they likely didn't have the funds to be able to do the project, and weren't likely to get the funds for the genre of game they wanted to make from any publisher.

'Scam' was probably not the best term to use.

Clearly.

DoubleFine's project is quite likely to be a rare exception to the usual business of Kickstarter. Though it's valid to raise discussion on the...I dunno...ethics? of using Kickstarter in this fashion. They asked for $400K, and are sitting at $1.4M this moment. Is the entire extra $1M pure profit, or will it be useful in improving this game? Will it be reinvested into future projects? Will it be used as salary for existing or new talent at the studio? Unlike physical products, there is a finite cost to the game, so overfunding is an interesting question. I still don't really care though. As a consumer, I'm just eager to get my game for $15.

 

[Born2bwire]

Ok sorry, you guys are right. I shouldn't have used the word "scam." It's not a scam because people know what they are getting into, but that doesn't make it right. Please come up with better arguments than "it's a free country" or "nobody's forcing you to."

I think Kickstarter should start banning these pre-order situations for existing, established companies just looking for a guaranteed pre-sale. What can this game company do for the game with $1M that they couldn't have done for $300K? Surely, they have the art and sound in place. You can tell this is a total joke to them because they have reward levels of $20k which buys you dinner and bowling with the team. No joke!

Their goal was $300K for the game, $100K for the documentary. Schafer has commented on how these pledges have compared with previous budgets, all of which exceeded the goal that they were asking for. So Double Fine was only asking for a fraction of the development costs. Anything beyond that has been solely on the initiative of the donators.

 

[busydude]

I think Kickstarter should start banning these pre-order situations for existing, established companies just looking for a guaranteed pre-sale. What can this game company do for the game with $1M that they couldn't have done for $300K? Surely, they have the art and sound in place. You can tell this is a total joke to them because they have reward levels of $20k which buys you dinner and bowling with the team. No joke!

The founder chose Kickstarter because he could not secure any funding from a big company. This guy has a ton of good rep among gamers for creating games that are very good.

You need to know the difference between a developer and a publisher.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Schafer

 

[BoberFett]

I think Kickstarter should start banning these pre-order situations for existing, established companies just looking for a guaranteed pre-sale. What can this game company do for the game with $1M that they couldn't have done for $300K? Surely, they have the art and sound in place. You can tell this is a total joke to them because they have reward levels of $20k which buys you dinner and bowling with the team. No joke!

That's just a plain stupid statement.

 

[zinfamous]

Exactly.
Whats next, EA going to Kickstarter and raising money for the new Battlefield while the executives laugh all the way to the bank?

Wait a tic: You now agree that it is a good thing for small individuals; but that big corps and/or established successful designers should be excluded form this service because they are...successful?

Isn't that like saying "Yeah, you're in. But you over there, not you; because, well, you don't need our help!"
It's like a--gasp!--"handout" conceived by some evil librul!

this is not the conservative stance I expect from you, sir!

 

[Born2bwire]

DoubleFine's project is quite likely to be a rare exception to the usual business of Kickstarter. Though it's valid to raise discussion on the...I dunno...ethics? of using Kickstarter in this fashion. They asked for $400K, and are sitting at $1.4M this moment. Is the entire extra $1M pure profit, or will it be reinvested into future projects? Unlike physical products, there is a finite cost to the game, so overfunding is an interesting question. I still don't really care though. As a consumer, I'm just eager to get my game for $15.

Well, it seems like that with the added money they have already stated that the game will be extended to the Mac and I think iOS. They are also talking about localizing the game for other markets too and adding more voice work and other features. I would think that a lot of it is probably going to end up as profit. They asked for $400K and they probably have an entire budget's worth of money for the game now. But I don't know if I can call it as an unethical situation because they only ever asked for $400K. People who are contributing know that their money is simply superfluous at this point. For the most part, I think people are continuing to contribute because they want to express their enthusiasm for the genre and want to breathe new life into it. Perhaps the real question then is whether or not Kickstarter should impose a ceiling to how overfunded a project can be. Given what the company has said about the success of this project, this may not have been a real issue at Kickstarter before.

 

[Gooberlx2]

But I don't know if I can call it as an unethical situation because they only ever asked for $400K.

Oh no mistake, I wouldn't either. It's good of them to put the money into further platforms, better voice work, etc... And hey, if the game delivers on quality, why shouldn't they come away with a bazillion dollars in pure profit?

I think (some) people just like to know where their money goes in a situation like a Kickstarter project. And there are better ways of asking those questions than calling the project/process a scam as the OP did.

 

[Codewiz]

Lets see, I go to kickstarter to find and discover products that can't be found other places. I don't look at it as a place to invest my money to get a return. I also don't fund projects unless I think they can be successful.

I have funded 6 so far and 3 have delivered. 1 is getting ready to ship. 1 is by a company with a proven track record that has a similar product on Amazon. The final project is one that is so simple that I am pretty sure it will be successful if funded.

So all of them, I get a product that I otherwise could never have gotten for a reasonable price. Yes, there is risk involved and if you are loose with your money, you are going to have to taken from you.

But if you use your head when deciding who to fund, it is reasonably safe.

 

[TheKub]

It also somehow makes things "OK" for companies. I would never pre-buy a $10 Steam Game. Why would it? But now because it's on Kickstarter I should? Why should a game company get $1M, 8 months early?

What if you were really interested in that game and if they didn’t presell XXXX copies it would never be produced?

I don't really believe that KS should just be relegated to dudes working out of their garage some things are too large of projects to be done by a single person. I’ve only contributed to one KS Project Eternity. Now I don’t know the full financial situation of Obsidian to float this project on their own, most of the games they develop are for other publishers which fund their work. This game is going to be their own IP, no one is going to tell them what they can and can’t put into the game they get to make it the way they want and I have faith in the people involved to do good work.

With this KS it was more than just a preorder, yes I did get a copy of the game (for less than retail) but as more people contributed the more elements were added to the game. So for my “investment” I’m getting a richer and more in-depth experience than would have existed IF this game was ever going to be made w/o the KS funding.

 

[TheVrolok]

Massive OP fail. Simply looking at Kickstarter all wrong, as noted above.

 

[Fritzo]

Kickstarter is a great idea, but a lot of people try to take advantage of it. I imagine it will come up with a set of solid rules and standards eventually (like ebay has done over the years). Currently, though, it's far from a scam.

 

[CPA]

Oh, don't get me wrong, its a great model for a business trying to raise money but anyone donating money to one of these companies is being very stupid.

Its internet panhandeling.

Patranus, unlike most posters in this thread, I usually agree with you, but on this I don't.

We are acting as VC's when we invest in a kickstarter project, but instead of profit-sharing return, we generally get a physical product in return.

Whether your a VC or a Kickstarter participant, both have risk and reward. There's no guarantee that a VC will make any amount of return on their investment in a company. Doesn't make it a scam, does it?

 

[Vdubchaos]

Giving a company money in the hopes that they create something of value which you can then benefit from in the future is a scam?

So... like the stock market?

One CAN say that, sure.

You think Stock Market is not a scam? Do you really think Twitter/Facebook or Google are worth the kind of money "they" value these companies at?

It's called speculation. There isn't much accuracy in speculation.

Here let me explain it to you this way.

"Once upon a time in a village, a man appeared and announced to the villagers that he would buy monkeys for $10 each. The villagers seeing that there were many monkeys around, went out to the forest and started catching them. The man bought thousands at $10 and, as supply started to diminish, the villagers stopped their effort. He further announced that he would now buy monkeys at $20 each. This renewed the efforts of the villagers and they started catching monkeys again.

Soon the supply diminished even further and people started going back to their farms. The offer increased to $25 each and the supply of monkeys became so scarce it was an effort to even find a monkey, let alone catch it! The man now announced that he would buy monkeys at $50 each! However, since he had to go to the city on some business, his assistant would now buy on behalf of him.

In the absence of the man, the assistant told the villagers. "Look at all these monkeys in the big cage that the man has already collected. I will sell them to you at $35 and when the man returns from the city, you can sell them to him for $50 each." The villagers rounded up with all their savings and bought all the monkeys.

Then they never saw the man nor his assistant again, only lots and lots of monkeys! Now you have a better understanding of how the stock market works."

Patranus, unlike most posters in this thread, I usually agree with you, but on this I don't.

We are acting as VC's when we invest in a kickstarter project, but instead of profit-sharing return, we generally get a physical product in return.

Whether your a VC or a Kickstarter participant, both have risk and reward. There's no guarantee that a VC will make any amount of return on their investment in a company. Doesn't make it a scam, does it?

Not a scam, more of a donation.

Still begs the question. Why in the world would anyone donate money to a company?

Heck I have problems donating money to "none profit organizations" that help people......as most of them have CEOs that make good 500k+ and employees etc. You would be lucky if 10-20 cents of your dollar make it to those in need.

Is it a scam? No

Is it morally right? I don't think so, but most of America seems to think it's ok since there is THOUSANDS of these organizations.

 

[disappoint]

Patranus' Online Dictionary:

Panhandle: pan·han·dle 1 (p n h n dl). v. pan·han·dled, pan·han·dling, pan·han·dles Informal. v.intr. See Scam

Scam: (sk

m) Slang n. See Panhandle

 

[bigrash]

I think kickstarter is great. People who think that it's a scam dont know what it is exactly.

 

[Vdubchaos]

I think kickstarter is great. People who think that it's a scam dont know what it is exactly.

I think it's brilliant.

Getting random people/strangers to pay for your business so that you can cash in on the profit.

If you can do it, more power to you!!!

 

[JM Aggie08]

You're not an intelligent man, OP.

 

[diesbudt]

This was a fun thread to read! Thank you for the "fail thread OP!

I use kickstarter. I have gotten some cool things that may not have existed otherwise, or even if it does exist, may not be mass distributed around the country where if i didn't fund for a copy of X I wouldn't have gotten it.

Some ideas on it are lame... But overall it seems like the idea of kickstarter is loss on some people.