Kerry's respond to Swift Boat Veterans For Truth

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Legal Terrorism
By Henry Mark Holzer and Erika Holzer
FrontPageMagazine.com | August 10, 2004

Presidential nominee John Kerry is working overtime to blunt growing criticism of his Vietnam service and simultaneously reassure uncommitted voters that his acts of alleged heroism as a Swift boat officer?over 30 years ago?far outweigh his antiwar history. He has made his medals?a Silver Star, a Bronze Star, and three Purple Hearts?a central focus of his candidacy. He has made a colossal mistake.

No surprise, then, that Swift Boat Veterans For Truth, an organization unaffiliated with any political party?whose members were no strangers to Lieutenant Kerry 30 years ago?last week began airing a dramatic, highly effective TV spot that flatly disputes Kerry?s claims, and, worse for Kerry, his integrity.


Predictably, Kerry?s lawyers responded with a venomous and distorted account of the TV spot and the veterans who had organized it. Marc Elias, Esq., General Counsel for the Kerry-Edwards campaign, joined by Joseph Sandler, General Counsel for the Democratic National Committee, faxed to TV station managers the kind of intimidating message that gives lawyers a bad name.

The three-page letter is a not-so-thinly veiled threat with only one possible goal: to scare the stations into dropping the ad. How? By misstating provable facts that back up the ad?s claims, and by shamelessly misrepresenting the law. How, specifically? On the legal side of the ledger, by trotting out the standard bogeymen for TV stations: false and misleading advertising, frowned on by the FTC; the specter of libel suits; dark hints of serious damages unless, ?in the public interest,? station managers refuse to run the ad.

On the factual side, one assertion by Kerry?s lawyers is that Swift Boat Veterans For Truth is a ?sham? organization. Why? Because its hard-hitting controversial ad was ?spearheaded? by a ?Texas corporate media consultant? and ?financed largely? by a Houston homebuilder. Since when does the support of a businessman who believes the claims of a large number of Navy Vietnam veterans make the entire organization, ipso facto, a ?sham??i.e., a fake? Only the naïve would regard this contentless assertion as having any substance and not recognize it for what it is: an ad hominem attack.

As to Navy physician Louis Letson (whom Elias and Sandler attempt to demean by putting Dr. Letson?s title in quotation marks), Kerry?s lawyers descend to a level that is truly shocking. They assert that Dr. Letson was ?pretending to be the doctor who treated Kerry for one of his injuries,? and ?not the doctor who actually signed Senator Kerry?s sick call sheet.? They assert that it was someone else who ?actually signed? the sheet. They assert that ?Letson is not listed on any document? as having treated Kerry after December 2, 1968.

Fact (based on rotation records and Kerry?s website): Some three months after everyone who was personally familiar with Kerry?s bogus claim to a Purple Heart had left Vietnam, Kerry persisted in the claim for his ?rose-thorn? injury, managing to convince an officer that he had earned the Purple Heart. Yet that officer had no personal information about the incident, no connection to Kerry?s small naval unit, and no knowledge that Hibbard had rejected Kerry?s earlier request for the medal. Whenever Kerry has been pressed to produce evidence justifying this first Purple Heart, he cites Dr. Letson?s tweezers treatment?on the basis of which Commander Hibbard denied the medal. As to the Purple Heart that was awarded, there is not a shred of documentary evidence to justify it.


Some lawyers, when confronted with too much damning evidence, fall back on the old shotgun approach. With Swift Boat Veterans For Truth, Elias and Sandler are facing off against an organization with a membership of over 250 [and growing daily since the ad ran], led by a retired rear admiral and comprised of vice admirals, commanders and hundreds of seamen. A large majority of men who served on Swift boats in Kerry?s naval unit have joined the organization. Kerry?s lawyers sought to poke holes in this formidable opponent?s accusations (thus deflecting attention from the holes in their own) by giving a false impression of the organization?s numbers. After calling the Swift Boat ad ?an inflammatory, outrageous lie??and making much of the fact that only ?twelve men ?appear? to make statements about Senator Kerry?s service in Vietnam??the lawyers make it seem as if the ad were the work of a disgruntled few.

And they don?t just avoid talking numbers; they choose not to mention the background and credentials of some of the seemingly disgruntled malcontents who ?appear? to have served with Lieutenant John Kerry. Were Elias and Sandler seriously accusing Rear Admiral Roy Hoffman, who heads Swift Boat Veterans For Truth?and who was Commander of all Swift boats in Vietnam during the period of Kerry?s abbreviated tour of duty (late November ?68 to mid-March ?69)?of telling an ?outrageous lie? when he accuses Kerry in the ad of ?not being honest??


Possibly the most effective technique employed by Kerry?s lawyers?a straw man they constructed in a transparent effort to mislead station managers and, in the process, an uninformed public?is about how Swift boats in Vietnam operated: Anyone who technically wasn?t a crewmate of Kerry?s and didn?t serve on either of his two Swift boats is?without more?an unreliable eyewitness to anything Kerry did or said.

But there is more---and from a very knowledgeable source. John O?Neill, partner in a Houston law firm and a founding member of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, anticipating the controversy the TV spot would generate and the need for documentation, sent a letter to station managers on August 2 (three days before the team of Elias and Sandler shifted into gear). The letter itself, eight pages long, is buttressed with 27 exhibits?roughly 100 pages of what O?Neill correctly labeled ?factual support for the advertisement.? What O?Neill explains about how the Swift boats actually operated should put to rest, for all but those who have a political ax to grind, any doubt about eyewitness reliability being tainted by non-crewmates.

Kerry?s four-month tour of duty was with Coastal Division 11, a small naval unit of roughly a hundred sailors and fifteen to sixteen boats, where Kerry spent most of his time. These boats operated in even smaller groups of two to six and, quoting O?Neill: ?Each of these boat officers operated directly with John Kerry on numerous occasions.? Four of these same officers are featured in the Swift boat ad, and have backed up their eyewitness accounts of Kerry?s lies with affidavits. A retired enlisted man served on one of the boats operating in close proximity to Kerry?s?a few yards away, to be precise?lending credence (again, backed up by affidavit) that ?John Kerry lied to get his Bronze Star. I know, I was there, I saw what happened.? As to others in the ad?the captain who was Kerry?s direct commander in Coastal Division 11, another captain who was his administrative commander, and, as mentioned above, the rear admiral in command of all Swift boats during Kerry?s tour, O?Neill writes: ?Each of these commanders interacted on numerous occasions with Kerry? (as Kerry?s authorized campaign biography readily acknowledges).

Swift Boat Veterans For Truth is comprised of men who honorably served their country, many of them awarded medals that Kerry never earned. What these veterans have earned is the right to go public with provable facts without suffering the indignity of being labeled liars and shuffled aside in favor of the Kerry campaign?s revolving group of eight veterans from Coastal Division 11?none of whom, according to O?Neill, served with Kerry as much as two months. As for the charge that running the TV spot is a dirty campaign tactic instead of what it is?a matter of conscience?and that coming forward 30 years after the events in question suggests bad motives, the proper response to such a charge is quid pro quo. Kerry?s concocted stories fall within the same time frame. How could men who know otherwise?who knew him then?remain silent?


It was not until halfway through their letter that the lawyers accused the Swift Boat Veterans For Truth of libel. By leveling that very serious charge, they purported to know something about libel law?especially about several legal principles that negate any legitimate libel claim by Kerry.



First, any statement made in the TV spot that is an ?opinion??e.g., Kerry?s ?account of what happened and what actually happened are the difference between night and day? [Chenoweth]; Kerry ?lacks the capacity to lead? [Lonsdale]; Kerry ?betrayed all his shipmates . . . . ? [Hibbard]?cannot constitute libel. Only the false statement of facts are capable of being libelous.



Second, many of the factual statements are utterly benign, and thus could never be actionable. For example, ?I served with John Kerry? [French, Elder, Hildreth]. That leaves factual statements like Hibbard?s: Kerry ?lied before the Senate.? In libel law, truth is an absolute defense. If, for example, it is true that Kerry ?lied before the Senate,? that Kerry ?has not been honest about what happened in Vietnam? [Elliott], that Kerry ?is lying about his record? [French], and that Kerry ?lied to get his Bronze Star? [O?Dell], Kerry has no case for libel.



Third, even without the absolute defense of truth, Kerry, as a public official, has a constitutionally required burden of proof in a libel case to produce evidence showing that the Swift Boat Veterans For Truth witnesses either knew their statements were false, or recklessly disregarded knowledge of falsity. Kerry?s lawyers must realize their client can never satisfy this burden of proof.



For these reasons, and others, the democrat lawyers? threatening letter to TV station managers was an unconscionable attempt to protect their candidate from the damning truths spoken by Vietnam veterans who have earned the right to exercise their First Amendment freedom of speech.



To their credit, TV stations in some marketplaces have refused to surrender to the bullying tactics of Kerry?s lawyers. This presents the democrat party and the Kerry campaign with two choices: put up or shut up.



They can slink off the field for having threatened TV stations with a baseless libel lawsuit, or, despite how they eventually hedge their threat, they can actually sue those TV stations that aren?t intimidated.



The latter course would be utter disaster?and Kerry?s lawyers have to know this. Kerry would no longer be able to hide behind spin masters. He would have to file a written complaint. Sworn depositions (including Kerry?s) would have to be taken. He would have to respond to requests for factual admissions. He would have to answer written interrogatories. He would have to produce documents.



There would have to be a trial. That means sworn testimony, cross examination, documentary evidence?all in front of a jury, reporters, perhaps even TV cameras.



Once all that happened, America would know who told the truth?and who lied.



Henry Mark Holzer [www.henrymarkholzer.com; hank@henrymarkholzer.com], Professor Emeritus at Brooklyn Law School, specializes in federal appeals. Erika Holzer [www.erikaholzer.com] is a lawyer and novelist.


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Todd33

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 2003
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Rip, did you change logins? I'd sue their a$$ off too. It's slander and lies. Now I sound like that b!tch Ann Coulter.

I fail to see anything that is suppose to upset a ration person.
 
Apr 14, 2004
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Why should I believe the Vietnam vets who support Kerry over the ones that don't? Or the other way around?

Kerry really needs to drop it from his campaign.
 

Todd33

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 2003
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I'll break it down for the simple folks.

One group served on the boat with him and know him personally.

One group was in the same war but did not serve along side of him.

I'll let you guess which group is which.
 

XZeroII

Lifer
Jun 30, 2001
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Because of this, I am actually starting to believe the swift boat people. If you read between the highlighted parts, you will find some good information. If these truly were outright lies, that group would have been sued 5 ways from sunday by now and Kerry would have come out immediately and said outright and plain that those men are lying. Rather than doing this, the Kerry people are using fear, intimidation and threats to try to shut them down. The only reason I can think of as to why they would do this rather than sue the group would be if the group was right.
 

cpumaster

Senior member
Dec 10, 2000
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I will vote for Kerry just because wiin give me a headache and wasting my time from reading his long a$$ post. The swift boat veteran should can their act and instead attack the one who could have gone to vietnam but refuse and instead partying back here in the states with his elite privilage friends... guess who that is ;)
 

smashp

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Aug 30, 2003
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Originally posted by: XZeroII
Because of this, I am actually starting to believe the swift boat people. If you read between the highlighted parts, you will find some good information. If these truly were outright lies, that group would have been sued 5 ways from sunday by now and Kerry would have come out immediately and said outright and plain that those men are lying. Rather than doing this, the Kerry people are using fear, intimidation and threats to try to shut them down. The only reason I can think of as to why they would do this rather than sue the group would be if the group was right.

They Would have been Sued in any other year for slander, except in an Election Year.

Its Dirty pool and politics.

Now if Kerry Loses the election, he could sue them for slander still and just might. Because in a court of Law, Eyewitness accounts hold water, "Hearsay" doesnt.

That my friends is the Truth.
 

arsbanned

Banned
Dec 12, 2003
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It's not distorted and appropriately venomous. In a perfect World those fvckers would be shot. Lying, conniving, SOBs, employed by Cheney and Co.
 

imported_tss4

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Jun 30, 2004
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Originally posted by: GeneralGrievous
Why should I believe the Vietnam vets who support Kerry over the ones that don't? Or the other way around?

Kerry really needs to drop it from his campaign.

Because the one's that support Kerry actually faught with him, the vets that are blasting Kerry never actually served with him... unless you mean by serve with him that they were in vietnam at the same time.
 

arsbanned

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Dec 12, 2003
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Kerry should keep right on trumpeting his excellent military service since it perfectly describes the contrast between himself and the cowards who never saw action who are sending our boys to die right now.
 

imported_tss4

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Jun 30, 2004
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How can you not consider combat experience a positive assett for the leader of our military?? It may not be the most important thing but I would have to give some points to the man who went to vietnam versus the man who skipped out on the national gaurd. Its just common sense.
 

FuzzyBee

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Jan 22, 2000
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Originally posted by: arsbanned
Kerry should keep right on trumpeting his excellent military service since it perfectly describes the contrast between himself and the cowards who never saw action who are sending our boys to die right now.

Were you trumpeting this when Clinton sent our boys off to die? It'd be interesting to know.
 

FuzzyBee

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Jan 22, 2000
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Originally posted by: tss4
Originally posted by: GeneralGrievous
Why should I believe the Vietnam vets who support Kerry over the ones that don't? Or the other way around?

Kerry really needs to drop it from his campaign.

Because the one's that support Kerry actually faught with him, the vets that are blasting Kerry never actually served with him... unless you mean by serve with him that they were in vietnam at the same time.

Ahhh - so that means that lack the ability to fabricate and/or recall incorrectly. :roll:
 

imported_tss4

Golden Member
Jun 30, 2004
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Originally posted by: FuzzyBee
Originally posted by: tss4
Originally posted by: GeneralGrievous
Why should I believe the Vietnam vets who support Kerry over the ones that don't? Or the other way around?

Kerry really needs to drop it from his campaign.

Because the one's that support Kerry actually faught with him, the vets that are blasting Kerry never actually served with him... unless you mean by serve with him that they were in vietnam at the same time.

Ahhh - so that means that lack the ability to fabricate and/or recall incorrectly. :roll:

Certainly not, but why would you take the word of someone that never served with Kerry vs. the word of all the men that did? Why? Unless you only care about how it refelcts on your candidate. And yes, I personally did feel that both Bush Sr.'s and Dole's military record were a plus for them when they were running against Clinton. I certainly would not disrespect their service to their country.
 

Sketcher

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Aug 15, 2001
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Originally posted by: tss4
Because the one's that support Kerry actually faught with him, the vets that are blasting Kerry never actually served with him... unless you mean by serve with him that they were in vietnam at the same time.

Tired inaccurate argument used by anyone who does not have a grasp on the condition of command, geological environment and a basic understanding of how Swift Boat Divisions operate.

Kerry?s four-month tour of duty was with Coastal Division 11, a small naval unit of roughly a hundred sailors and fifteen to sixteen boats, where Kerry spent most of his time. These boats operated in even smaller groups of two to six and, quoting O?Neill: ?Each of these boat officers operated directly with John Kerry on numerous occasions.? Four of these same officers are featured in the Swift boat ad, and have backed up their eyewitness accounts of Kerry?s lies with affidavits. A retired enlisted man served on one of the boats operating in close proximity to Kerry?s?a few yards away, to be precise?lending credence (again, backed up by affidavit) that ?John Kerry lied to get his Bronze Star. I know, I was there, I saw what happened.? As to others in the ad?the captain who was Kerry?s direct commander in Coastal Division 11, another captain who was his administrative commander, and, as mentioned above, the rear admiral in command of all Swift boats during Kerry?s tour, O?Neill writes: ?Each of these commanders interacted on numerous occasions with Kerry? (as Kerry?s authorized campaign biography readily acknowledges).

Swift Boat Veterans For Truth is comprised of men who honorably served their country, many of them awarded medals that Kerry never earned. What these veterans have earned is the right to go public with provable facts without suffering the indignity of being labeled liars and shuffled aside in favor of the Kerry campaign?s revolving group of eight veterans from Coastal Division 11?none of whom, according to O?Neill, served with Kerry as much as two months. As for the charge that running the TV spot is a dirty campaign tactic instead of what it is?a matter of conscience?and that coming forward 30 years after the events in question suggests bad motives, the proper response to such a charge is quid pro quo. Kerry?s concocted stories fall within the same time frame. How could men who know otherwise?who knew him then?remain silent?

Article
 

Red Dawn

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Jun 4, 2001
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After what the Dub smear machine did to McCain and the results they got I totally unberstand why they are resorting to the same tactic against Kerry.
 

GoPackGo

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Oct 10, 2003
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Originally posted by: Red Dawn
After what the Dub smear machine did to McCain and the results they got I totally unberstand why they are resorting to the same tactic against Kerry.

As if this is different from any other election...muck raking...yellow journalism...fox news...cnn...al jazeera...its all one big spin machine.....YAWN!!!
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
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Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
After what the Dub smear machine did to McCain and the results they got I totally unberstand why they are resorting to the same tactic against Kerry.

As if this is different from any other election...muck raking...yellow journalism...fox news...cnn...al jazeera...its all one big spin machine.....YAWN!!!
It gave Hannity and OC Limbaugh woodies!
 

FuzzyBee

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2000
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Originally posted by: Red Dawn
After what the Dub smear machine did to McCain and the results they got I totally unberstand why they are resorting to the same tactic against Kerry.

Bah - they're an independent group. Hey, it works for MoveOn.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
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Under American law it is extremely hard for a person who fits into the category of public person (such as Kerry) to win a slander or libel suit. For some history on this issue look up Westmoreland v. CBS. Basically Kerry would have to prove not only were the statements false but that the defendants knew they were false when they published them (grossly oversimplified overview of libel law).

Situations like this are a tar baby for politicians. Kerry's best approach would be no libel suit and having others (not himself) react to the statements, ie, try it in the court of public opinion, and hope that the matter fades away relatively quickly. Frankly, it should-we should be debating the issues that are important today-not whether some Vets Kerry never served with diss him or the extent to which Bush was AWOL in the Reserves.

My view of everything I have read from, or about, these swiftboat people is (a) very few had any personal contact with Kerry and (b) many of them have a vehement hatred of Kerry for the public stand he took against the Vietnam War so many years ago. It kind of reminds me how Lincoln was vilified before and during his Presidency.
 

OneOfTheseDays

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Jan 15, 2000
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There is just something you cannot deny, every living crewmember on John Kerry's switftboat attests to his bravery and courage under fire. Every single member of this organization against him DID NOT serve on his swiftboat. Don't you think that if John Kerry was lying that at least one member of his swiftboat squad would have called him out? Do you find it odd that all of them support John Kerry?
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
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Originally posted by: FuzzyBee
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
After what the Dub smear machine did to McCain and the results they got I totally unberstand why they are resorting to the same tactic against Kerry.

Bah - they're an independent group. Hey, it works for MoveOn.
Both Groups just preach to the Chior.
 

imported_tss4

Golden Member
Jun 30, 2004
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Originally posted by: Sketcher
Originally posted by: tss4
Because the one's that support Kerry actually faught with him, the vets that are blasting Kerry never actually served with him... unless you mean by serve with him that they were in vietnam at the same time.

Tired inaccurate argument used by anyone who does not have a grasp on the condition of command, geological environment and a basic understanding of how Swift Boat Divisions operate.

Kerry?s four-month tour of duty was with Coastal Division 11, a small naval unit of roughly a hundred sailors and fifteen to sixteen boats, where Kerry spent most of his time. These boats operated in even smaller groups of two to six and, quoting O?Neill: ?Each of these boat officers operated directly with John Kerry on numerous occasions.? Four of these same officers are featured in the Swift boat ad, and have backed up their eyewitness accounts of Kerry?s lies with affidavits. A retired enlisted man served on one of the boats operating in close proximity to Kerry?s?a few yards away, to be precise?lending credence (again, backed up by affidavit) that ?John Kerry lied to get his Bronze Star. I know, I was there, I saw what happened.? As to others in the ad?the captain who was Kerry?s direct commander in Coastal Division 11, another captain who was his administrative commander, and, as mentioned above, the rear admiral in command of all Swift boats during Kerry?s tour, O?Neill writes: ?Each of these commanders interacted on numerous occasions with Kerry? (as Kerry?s authorized campaign biography readily acknowledges).

Swift Boat Veterans For Truth is comprised of men who honorably served their country, many of them awarded medals that Kerry never earned. What these veterans have earned is the right to go public with provable facts without suffering the indignity of being labeled liars and shuffled aside in favor of the Kerry campaign?s revolving group of eight veterans from Coastal Division 11?none of whom, according to O?Neill, served with Kerry as much as two months. As for the charge that running the TV spot is a dirty campaign tactic instead of what it is?a matter of conscience?and that coming forward 30 years after the events in question suggests bad motives, the proper response to such a charge is quid pro quo. Kerry?s concocted stories fall within the same time frame. How could men who know otherwise?who knew him then?remain silent?

Article


Wow point well made. I was so tired and innacurate when I said I would take the word of the poeple that served directly with Kerry over a few guys accounts from another boat. Clearly under fire they were more capable of evaluating his performace over his own crew mates. I respect military service no matter who it comes from. Repulbican or Democrat. You respect it when it suits your needs. Like I said, military service alone cetainly isn't reason to vote for kerry, but its definately a point to him versus a man that skipped out on national guard duty. But your too busy bashing kerry to even address bush's military service.
 
Apr 14, 2004
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Because the one's that support Kerry actually faught with him, the vets that are blasting Kerry never actually served with him... unless you mean by serve with him that they were in vietnam at the same time.
Have you read this before?

""My name is Steve Gardner. I served in 1966 and 1967 on my first tour of duty in Vietnam on Swift boats, and I did my second tour in '68 and '69, involved with John Kerry in the last 2 1/2 months of my tour. The John Kerry that I know is not the John Kerry that everybody else is portraying. I served alongside him and behind him, five feet away from him in a gun tub, and watched as he made indecisive moves with our boat, put our boats in jeopardy, put our crews in jeopardy... if a man like that can't handle that 6-man crew boat, how can you expect him to be our Commander-in-Chief?""

I guess we should just throw his opinion out the door, right?
 

Hugenstein

Senior member
Dec 30, 2000
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I am curious if any of the Swiftboat guys actually earned medals in the same incidents where Kerry was awarded a medal or purple heart.

Wouldn't that just be funny.