Kerry's campaign now says is possible first Purple Heart was awarded for unintentional self-inflicted wound...

[NightCrawler]

Hmm, have to see if this goes anywhere......


Link: Sorry it's a Drudge Developing Story should be up shortly: http://drudgereport.com/

Kerry's campaign now says is possible first Purple Heart was awarded for unintentional self-inflicted wound...


Kerry received Purple Heart for wounds suffered on 12/2/68...


In Kerry's own journal written 9 days later, he writes he and his crew, quote, 'hadn't been shot at yet'... Developing...

Update: Well Drudge never went live with a link but Charrison did find this video link from Faux News:

http://www.foxnews.com/video2/player.html?11608&Special_Report&Record%20News&elec&You%20Decide%202004&8&wvx-300

At the end of the clip they report that Kerry's campaign concedes that his first purple heart might have been self inflicted. [b/]

 

[Riprorin]

For those that are counting:

Swiftboatvets 2

Kerry 0

 

[jjzelinski]

Once again, to put in terms of a worst case scenerio, I've heard it suggested that Kerry launched a grenade, it may have bounced off something and exploded nearby. In the process, it injured Kerry. Funny, but not particularily damning. Still got hurt in combat, and his injury wasn't deliberate so there was nothing criminal about.

 

[Jhhnn]

Linkage?

 

[Riprorin]

The Swiftvets allege that Kerry threw a concussion grenade into a rice pile.

Bad idea, those rice pellets sting like the dickens.

Kerry himself reflected in his own journal that his buttocks' wound came, not from a mine but, rather, from a grenade tossed into a rice cache and sworn statements of those present say there was no hostile fire involved in this incident for which Kerry received his third Purple Heart and the coveted Bronze Star.

 

[Riprorin]

Ooops, I just realized that you were referring to his first Purple Heart and not the third one.

Here more information on his first Purple Heart.

What follows is Letson's memory, as he wrote it.

I have a very clear memory of an incident which occurred while I was the Medical Officer at Naval Support Facility, Cam Ranh Bay.
John Kerry was a (jg), the OinC or skipper of a Swift boat, newly arrived in Vietnam. On the night of December 2, he was on patrol north of Cam Ranh, up near Nha Trang area. The next day he came to sick bay, the medical facility, for treatment of a wound that had occurred that night.

The story he told was different from what his crewmen had to say about that night. According to Kerry, they had been engaged in a fire fight, receiving small arms fire from on shore. He said that his injury resulted from this enemy action.

Some of his crew confided that they did not receive any fire from shore, but that Kerry had fired a mortar round at close range to some rocks on shore. The crewman thought that the injury was caused by a fragment ricocheting from that mortar round when it struck the rocks.

That seemed to fit the injury which I treated.

What I saw was a small piece of metal sticking very superficially in the skin of Kerry's arm. The metal fragment measured about 1 cm. in length and was about 2 or 3 mm in diameter. It certainly did not look like a round from a rifle.

I simply removed the piece of metal by lifting it out of the skin with forceps. I doubt that it penetrated more than 3 or 4 mm. It did not require probing to find it, did not require any anesthesia to remove it, and did not require any sutures to close the wound.

The wound was covered with a bandaid.

Not [sic] other injuries were reported and I do not recall that there was any reported damage to the boat.

Link

 

[PELarson]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
The Swiftvets allege that Kerry threw a concussion grenade into a rice pile.

Bad idea, those rice pellets sting like the dickens.

Kerry himself reflected in his own journal that his buttocks' wound came, not from a mine but, rather, from a grenade tossed into a rice cache and sworn statements of those present say there was no hostile fire involved in this incident for which Kerry received his third Purple Heart and the coveted Bronze Star.

You are vainly attempting to trash the first Purple Heart by referencing the incident surrounding the third Purple Heart?

 

[nick1985]

self inflicted wounds != purple heart. someone had to lie.

 

[arsbanned]

Until I see a legit link this is just more lies from the LIARS.

 

[Todd33]

those present say there was no hostile fire involved in this incident for which Kerry received his third Purple Heart and the coveted Bronze Star.

Well that's a lie. The Navy records, Thurlow's bronze star citation and all of those on Kerry's boat said there was fire.

So, Rip gives points to the liars when they make accusations with no proof and do not give Kerry any credit when he has records and eye witness accounts. Gotcha.

 

[Czar]

I'm starting to see a pattern with the non linking hot news posting people

 

[villager]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
Ooops, I just realized that you were referring to his first Purple Heart and not the third one.

Here more information on his first Purple Heart.

What follows is Letson's memory, as he wrote it.

I have a very clear memory of an incident which occurred while I was the Medical Officer at Naval Support Facility, Cam Ranh Bay.
John Kerry was a (jg), the OinC or skipper of a Swift boat, newly arrived in Vietnam. On the night of December 2, he was on patrol north of Cam Ranh, up near Nha Trang area. The next day he came to sick bay, the medical facility, for treatment of a wound that had occurred that night.

The story he told was different from what his crewmen had to say about that night. According to Kerry, they had been engaged in a fire fight, receiving small arms fire from on shore. He said that his injury resulted from this enemy action.

Some of his crew confided that they did not receive any fire from shore, but that Kerry had fired a mortar round at close range to some rocks on shore. The crewman thought that the injury was caused by a fragment ricocheting from that mortar round when it struck the rocks.

That seemed to fit the injury which I treated.

What I saw was a small piece of metal sticking very superficially in the skin of Kerry's arm. The metal fragment measured about 1 cm. in length and was about 2 or 3 mm in diameter. It certainly did not look like a round from a rifle.

I simply removed the piece of metal by lifting it out of the skin with forceps. I doubt that it penetrated more than 3 or 4 mm. It did not require probing to find it, did not require any anesthesia to remove it, and did not require any sutures to close the wound.

The wound was covered with a bandaid.

Not [sic] other injuries were reported and I do not recall that there was any reported damage to the boat.

Link

So he had no first hand information but just over heard unnamed people talking. Also his name is not on the medical report. Like most of the Swift Vets, the official records pose a problem to their story so they suggest the official records are wrong. In any case, that wound does qualify for the Purple Heart.

 

[Gaard]

C'mon NightCrawler. How many more people have to ask you for a link? It's not that we don't believe you, it's just that we haven't heard this and would like to read about it.

 

[villager]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
The Swiftvets allege that Kerry threw a concussion grenade into a rice pile.

Bad idea, those rice pellets sting like the dickens.

Kerry himself reflected in his own journal that his buttocks' wound came, not from a mine but, rather, from a grenade tossed into a rice cache and sworn statements of those present say there was no hostile fire involved in this incident for which Kerry received his third Purple Heart and the coveted Bronze Star.

From Bob Dole description of one of his Purple Heart.
"As we approached the enemy, there was a brief exchange of gunfire. I took a grenade in hand, pulled the pin, and tossed it in the direction of the farmhouse. It wasn't a very good pitch (remember, I was used to catching passes, not throwing them). In the darkness, the grenade must have struck a tree and bounced off. It exploded nearby, sending a sliver of metal into my leg--the sort of injury the Army patched up with Mercurochrome and a Purple Heart."

Strangely similar!

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: nick1985
self inflicted wounds != purple heart. someone had to lie.

You obviously don't understand what a self inflicted wound is or you are choosing to ignore it. I vote for the latter. Unless someone here or otherwise can prove that Kerry was just flippantly tossing grandades off the boat for fun, shrapnel from ones own tossed granade most CERTAINLY counts for getting a Purple Heart.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
For those that are counting:

Swiftboatvets 2

Kerry 0

Not even close Rip.

Swifboatvets: 0

Kerry, does not have to play because neither the SBV or you can discredit 1 medal no matter how hard you blow. Keep blowing Rip.

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: nick1985
self inflicted wounds != purple heart. someone had to lie.

You obviously don't understand what a self inflicted wound is or you are choosing to ignore it. I vote for the latter. Unless someone here or otherwise can prove that Kerry was just flippantly tossing grandades off the boat for fun, shrapnel from ones own tossed granade most CERTAINLY counts for getting a Purple Heart.

how do i not know what a self inflicted wound is? its a wound that you inflict upon yourself. if you shoot yourself in the foot, you dont get a purple heart. if you throw a grenade like a moron and almost blow yourself up, you dont get a purple heart.

 

[BDawg]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
For those that are counting:

Swiftboatvets 2

Kerry 0

I think it should be,

Washington Post 1
NY Times 1

Swiftboatliars 0

 

[charrison]

a fair and balanced view

It is near the end of the video clip

 

[Todd33]

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: nick1985
self inflicted wounds != purple heart. someone had to lie.

You obviously don't understand what a self inflicted wound is or you are choosing to ignore it. I vote for the latter. Unless someone here or otherwise can prove that Kerry was just flippantly tossing grandades off the boat for fun, shrapnel from ones own tossed grenade most CERTAINLY counts for getting a Purple Heart.

how do i not know what a self inflicted wound is? its a wound that you inflict upon yourself. if you shoot yourself in the foot, you donut get a purple heart. if you throw a grenade like a moron and almost blow yourself up, you donut get a purple heart.

You should be more careful and do your homework Nick, Dole got a purple heart for throwing a grenade and getting shrapnel in his leg, mush the same way Kerry might have for one of his. I suggest you search for a thread about dole from yesterday and read the quote from his autobiography.

I also heard a military guy on NPR today, he verified that any would received by enemy action gets a purple heart. If the shrapnel comes from the enemy, your own grenade or a friendly fire makes no difference. I suggest you 17 year old couch experts stop slandering Kerry and go sign up for Iraq, put up or shut up.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: nick1985
self inflicted wounds != purple heart. someone had to lie.

You obviously don't understand what a self inflicted wound is or you are choosing to ignore it. I vote for the latter. Unless someone here or otherwise can prove that Kerry was just flippantly tossing grandades off the boat for fun, shrapnel from ones own tossed granade most CERTAINLY counts for getting a Purple Heart.

how do i not know what a self inflicted wound is? its a wound that you inflict upon yourself. if you shoot yourself in the foot, you dont get a purple heart. if you throw a grenade like a moron and almost blow yourself up, you dont get a purple heart.

You are CLUELESS. Try again. I suggest you do a Google search on Purple Heart. I am in a boat, someone is firing at me and my crewmates, I pull the pin on the granade with intention to kill the enemy, something goes wrong, it blows early, I die.

Purple Heart to my Mom and Dad.

Keep playing though, you are fun if nothing else to own.

Kerry's injuries whether from his own granade or not, do not exlude him from receiving a Purple Heart.

So long as he was not being reckless (link as proof that he was?) or there was no actual Fire (link as proof there was NO fire fight?)

crickets

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: nick1985
self inflicted wounds != purple heart. someone had to lie.

You obviously don't understand what a self inflicted wound is or you are choosing to ignore it. I vote for the latter. Unless someone here or otherwise can prove that Kerry was just flippantly tossing grandades off the boat for fun, shrapnel from ones own tossed granade most CERTAINLY counts for getting a Purple Heart.

how do i not know what a self inflicted wound is? its a wound that you inflict upon yourself. if you shoot yourself in the foot, you dont get a purple heart. if you throw a grenade like a moron and almost blow yourself up, you dont get a purple heart.

You are CLUELESS. Try again. I suggest you do a Google search on Purple Heart. I am in a boat, someone is firing at me and my crewmates, I pull the pin on the granade with intention to kill the enemy, something goes wrong, it blows early, I die.

Purple Heart to my Mom and Dad.

Keep playing though, you are fun if nothing else to own.

Kerry's injuries whether from his own granade or not, do not exlude him from receiving a Purple Heart.

So long as he was not being reckless (link as proof that he was?) or there was no actual Fire (link as proof there was NO fire fight?)

crickets

If you are under enemy fire that is correct.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: Todd33
shut up.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: villager

So he had no first hand information but just over heard unnamed people talking. Also his name is not on the medical report. Like most of the Swift Vets, the official records pose a problem to their story so they suggest the official records are wrong. In any case, that wound does qualify for the Purple Heart.

I find Letson the second most-embarrassing SBVT (after CDR Elliott). He would have you believe that, notwithstanding the fact his name does not appear on Sen Kerry's medical record, he has a precise memory of treating an extremely minor injury, requiring only a Band-Aid, down to the exact dimensions of the metal fragment, in the midst of a combat tour in Vietnam in which he presumably dealt regularly with fatal wounds, disembowelments, amputations, etc. It defies common sense and human nature IMO.

 

[shiner]

Originally posted by: villager

Originally posted by: Riprorin
The Swiftvets allege that Kerry threw a concussion grenade into a rice pile.

Bad idea, those rice pellets sting like the dickens.

Kerry himself reflected in his own journal that his buttocks' wound came, not from a mine but, rather, from a grenade tossed into a rice cache and sworn statements of those present say there was no hostile fire involved in this incident for which Kerry received his third Purple Heart and the coveted Bronze Star.

From Bob Dole description of one of his Purple Heart.
"As we approached the enemy, there was a brief exchange of gunfire. I took a grenade in hand, pulled the pin, and tossed it in the direction of the farmhouse. It wasn't a very good pitch (remember, I was used to catching passes, not throwing them). In the darkness, the grenade must have struck a tree and bounced off. It exploded nearby, sending a sliver of metal into my leg--the sort of injury the Army patched up with Mercurochrome and a Purple Heart."

Strangely similar!

Except Dole was under enemy fire.