Kerry Calls for Rumsfeld's Resignation

[Todd33]

Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry called Wednesday for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to resign and urged President Bush to appoint an independent investigation to provide reforms after a report faulted all levels of the military for abuse at Abu Ghraib prison.

"It's not just the little person at the bottom who ought to pay the price of responsibility," Kerry said at a Philadelphia union hall. "The buck doesn't stop at the Pentagon."

Click to learn more...

A report released Tuesday by an independent panel led by former Defense Secretary James R. Schlesinger concluded that senior U.S. military leaders in Iraq and the Pentagon can be faulted for inattention to prisoner abuses, but it did not recommend that Rumsfeld stop down.

"What is missing from all these reports is accountability from the senior civilian leaders in the Pentagon and in the White House," Kerry said. "From the bottom of the chain of command all the way to the top, there needs to be accountability. The Schlesinger report makes clear that Secretary Rumsfeld was responsible for setting a climate where these types of abuses could occur."

Kerry said an independent investigation should review the decision-making process that led to the abuses and provide comprehensive reforms to ensure abuses do not recur.

"The time has come for our commander in chief to take charge," he said.

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Politics/ap20040825_965.html

Flame on!

 

[conjur]

Ashcroft, afaik, still hasn't provided the Senate investigative committee with a valid legal reason for withholding the "torture memo".

 

[smashp]

ahh Back to Kerry standing up against modern day Atrocities in the military.

 

[Crimson]

Why should Rumsfeld resign when John Kerry is running for President after ADMITTING to committing war crimes in Vietnam? Kerry has admitted to PERSONALLY being involved with illegal activities, yet Rumsfeld should resign? What don't I undertstand here?

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Crimson
Why should Rumsfeld resign when John Kerry is running for President after ADMITTING to committing war crimes in Vietnam? Kerry has admitted to PERSONALLY being involved with illegal activities, yet Rumsfeld should resign? What don't I undertstand here?

Good thing you're not under Oath.

 

[Genx87]

This guy is such an opportunist.

 

[Todd33]

Originally posted by: Crimson
Why should Rumsfeld resign when John Kerry is running for President after ADMITTING to committing war crimes in Vietnam? Kerry has admitted to PERSONALLY being involved with illegal activities, yet Rumsfeld should resign? What don't I undertstand here?

WTF are you talking about? He admitted to participating in free fire zones and burnig huts, all under orders. No one was ever charged with war crimes. Maybe you should read the whole testomony and not the one or sentences out of context that Hanity provides for you. Get back to the topic, you are producing a typical right wong smoke screen.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Crimson
Why should Rumsfeld resign when John Kerry is running for President after ADMITTING to committing war crimes in Vietnam? Kerry has admitted to PERSONALLY being involved with illegal activities, yet Rumsfeld should resign? What don't I undertstand here?

This is apples-and-oranges and you know it perfectly well. It appears, per the Schlesinger report, that there was high-level approval of the abuse at Abu Ghraib. 39 detainees have died in US custody since 9/11, and many of these cases (including the death of the head of the Iraqi Air Force, a 4-star general equivalent, who died from blunt-force trauma to the chest) have been found to be homicides. This has turned into a PR nightmare for DoD, and indeed, the Military Times newspapers (hardly a bunch of wild-eyed liberals) called for Scty Rumsfeld's resignation months ago.

Sen Kerry has stated that he, under orders, in an operational combat environment, ?took part in shootings in free fire zones, []conducted harassment and interdiction fire . . . [and] took part in search and destroy missions in the burning of villages.?

This is a far cry from making a dispassionate policy decision, in a safe, calm environment, to substantially dismiss the protections of the Geneva Convention in favor of "softening up" an entire class of detainees. Moreover, even when the abuses were documented photographically, Scty Rumsfeld apparently didn't bother to look at the pictures, or advise his Commander-in-Chief about the situation, so that, ultimately, President Bush saw the pictures for the first time when they were broadcast on national television.

You are entitled to your opinion of Sen Kerry's war record, but two wrongs don't make a right, and just as you have the right to criticize him, he has the right to criticize Scty Rumsfeld.

 

[Crimson]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: Crimson
Why should Rumsfeld resign when John Kerry is running for President after ADMITTING to committing war crimes in Vietnam? Kerry has admitted to PERSONALLY being involved with illegal activities, yet Rumsfeld should resign? What don't I undertstand here?

This is apples-and-oranges and you know it perfectly well. It appears, per the Schlesinger report, that there was high-level approval of the abuse at Abu Ghraib. 39 detainees have died in US custody since 9/11, and many of these cases (including the death of the head of the Iraqi Air Force, a 4-star general equivalent, who died from blunt-force trauma to the chest) have been found to be homicides. This has turned into a PR nightmare for DoD, and indeed, the Military Times newspapers (hardly a bunch of wild-eyed liberals) called for Scty Rumsfeld's resignation months ago.

Sen Kerry has stated that he, under orders, in an operational combat environment, ?took part in shootings in free fire zones, []conducted harassment and interdiction fire . . . [and] took part in search and destroy missions in the burning of villages.?

This is a far cry from making a dispassionate policy decision, in a safe, calm environment, to substantially dismiss the protections of the Geneva Convention in favor of "softening up" an entire class of detainees. Moreover, even when the abuses were documented photographically, Scty Rumsfeld apparently didn't bother to look at the pictures, or advise his Commander-in-Chief about the situation, so that, ultimately, President Bush saw the pictures for the first time when they were broadcast on national television.

You are entitled to your opinion of Sen Kerry's war record, but two wrongs don't make a right, and just as you have the right to criticize him, he has the right to criticize Scty Rumsfeld.

I don't listen to Hannity, but thanks for making an ASSumption. But, I will support the resignation of Rumsfeld if Kerry withdrawls from the Presidential Race.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Crimson

I don't listen to Hannity, but thanks for making an ASSumption. But, I will support the resignation of Rumsfeld if Kerry withdrawls from the Presidential Race.

I have no idea what you're talking about, in re. Hannity (who I have never listened to at all) - can you clarify what assumption (er, I mean, "ASSumption") I've made? I don't appreciate your insulting tone, when I haven't done anything I can see to warrant it.

BTW, would you really support Scty Rumsfeld's resignation if Sen Kerry withdrew from the race? To me that implies you think it's fundamentally a good idea that he resign (or at least you're neutral toward the issue). I know I wouldn't support someone I believed in resigning if President Bush withdrew from the race, so that strikes me as an interesting comment.

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: Crimson

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: Crimson
Why should Rumsfeld resign when John Kerry is running for President after ADMITTING to committing war crimes in Vietnam? Kerry has admitted to PERSONALLY being involved with illegal activities, yet Rumsfeld should resign? What don't I undertstand here?

This is apples-and-oranges and you know it perfectly well. It appears, per the Schlesinger report, that there was high-level approval of the abuse at Abu Ghraib. 39 detainees have died in US custody since 9/11, and many of these cases (including the death of the head of the Iraqi Air Force, a 4-star general equivalent, who died from blunt-force trauma to the chest) have been found to be homicides. This has turned into a PR nightmare for DoD, and indeed, the Military Times newspapers (hardly a bunch of wild-eyed liberals) called for Scty Rumsfeld's resignation months ago.

Sen Kerry has stated that he, under orders, in an operational combat environment, ?took part in shootings in free fire zones, []conducted harassment and interdiction fire . . . [and] took part in search and destroy missions in the burning of villages.?

This is a far cry from making a dispassionate policy decision, in a safe, calm environment, to substantially dismiss the protections of the Geneva Convention in favor of "softening up" an entire class of detainees. Moreover, even when the abuses were documented photographically, Scty Rumsfeld apparently didn't bother to look at the pictures, or advise his Commander-in-Chief about the situation, so that, ultimately, President Bush saw the pictures for the first time when they were broadcast on national television.

You are entitled to your opinion of Sen Kerry's war record, but two wrongs don't make a right, and just as you have the right to criticize him, he has the right to criticize Scty Rumsfeld.

I don't listen to Hannity, but thanks for making an ASSumption. But, I will support the resignation of Rumsfeld if Kerry withdrawls from the Presidential Race.

LOL, you're a nm....

Swiftboat Idiots <> Independent Investigator and Former DoD head

No proof of anything against Kerry <> Said Former DoD head having proof of high level approval of torture.

 

[rextilleon]

Crimsons analogy is absurd and just goes to show that there is no hope for members of the Cult of Bush. Bush could take a leak on their foot and they would say it was raining. Why even try to have logical conversations with them.

 

[CallMeJoe]

Kerry can't be serious about wanting Rummy to resign. Rumsfeld, Cheney and Ashcroft are the biggest reasons many Americans have for wanting Bush out of office. Of course, at this point it's hard to credit Kerry with much in the way of campaign savvy.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Crimson

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: Crimson
Why should Rumsfeld resign when John Kerry is running for President after ADMITTING to committing war crimes in Vietnam? Kerry has admitted to PERSONALLY being involved with illegal activities, yet Rumsfeld should resign? What don't I undertstand here?

This is apples-and-oranges and you know it perfectly well. It appears, per the Schlesinger report, that there was high-level approval of the abuse at Abu Ghraib. 39 detainees have died in US custody since 9/11, and many of these cases (including the death of the head of the Iraqi Air Force, a 4-star general equivalent, who died from blunt-force trauma to the chest) have been found to be homicides. This has turned into a PR nightmare for DoD, and indeed, the Military Times newspapers (hardly a bunch of wild-eyed liberals) called for Scty Rumsfeld's resignation months ago.

Sen Kerry has stated that he, under orders, in an operational combat environment, ?took part in shootings in free fire zones, []conducted harassment and interdiction fire . . . [and] took part in search and destroy missions in the burning of villages.?

This is a far cry from making a dispassionate policy decision, in a safe, calm environment, to substantially dismiss the protections of the Geneva Convention in favor of "softening up" an entire class of detainees. Moreover, even when the abuses were documented photographically, Scty Rumsfeld apparently didn't bother to look at the pictures, or advise his Commander-in-Chief about the situation, so that, ultimately, President Bush saw the pictures for the first time when they were broadcast on national television.

You are entitled to your opinion of Sen Kerry's war record, but two wrongs don't make a right, and just as you have the right to criticize him, he has the right to criticize Scty Rumsfeld.

I don't listen to Hannity, but thanks for making an ASSumption. But, I will support the resignation of Rumsfeld if Kerry withdrawls from the Presidential Race.

Ha. I'll donate my left nut if both Bush and Kerry would resign and both politcal parties would nominate someone worth voting for.

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: Todd33

Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry called Wednesday for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to resign and urged President Bush to appoint an independent investigation to provide reforms after a report faulted all levels of the military for abuse at Abu Ghraib prison.

"It's not just the little person at the bottom who ought to pay the price of responsibility," Kerry said at a Philadelphia union hall. "The buck doesn't stop at the Pentagon."

Click to learn more...

A report released Tuesday by an independent panel led by former Defense Secretary James R. Schlesinger concluded that senior U.S. military leaders in Iraq and the Pentagon can be faulted for inattention to prisoner abuses, but it did not recommend that Rumsfeld stop down.

"What is missing from all these reports is accountability from the senior civilian leaders in the Pentagon and in the White House," Kerry said. "From the bottom of the chain of command all the way to the top, there needs to be accountability. The Schlesinger report makes clear that Secretary Rumsfeld was responsible for setting a climate where these types of abuses could occur."

Kerry said an independent investigation should review the decision-making process that led to the abuses and provide comprehensive reforms to ensure abuses do not recur.

"The time has come for our commander in chief to take charge," he said.

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Politics/ap20040825_965.html

Flame on!

Rumsfeld has made plenty of mistakes, like the abu ghraib prison scandal but i dont think he should resign. I think George Tenet resigning was a good thing, however.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: raildogg


Rumsfeld has made plenty of mistakes, like the abu ghraib prison scandal but i dont think he should resign. I think George Tenet resigning was a good thing, however.

Seppeku would suffice!

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: raildogg
Rumsfeld has made plenty of mistakes, like the abu ghraib prison scandal but i dont think he should resign. I think George Tenet resigning was a good thing, however.

IMO, Abu Ghraib was the icing on the resignation cake.

He (and Wolfowitz) should have resigned when they admitted they were caught completely by surprise by the strength of the insurgency. What a fvcking idiot!!

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: raildogg
Rumsfeld has made plenty of mistakes, like the abu ghraib prison scandal but i dont think he should resign. I think George Tenet resigning was a good thing, however.

IMO, Abu Ghraib was the icing on the resignation cake.

He (and Wolfowitz) should have resigned when they admitted they were caught completely by surprise by the strength of the insurgency. What a fvcking idiot!!

Where does kerry getting any insight on calling for a resignation?

Was it military?

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: raildogg
Rumsfeld has made plenty of mistakes, like the abu ghraib prison scandal but i dont think he should resign. I think George Tenet resigning was a good thing, however.

IMO, Abu Ghraib was the icing on the resignation cake.

He (and Wolfowitz) should have resigned when they admitted they were caught completely by surprise by the strength of the insurgency. What a fvcking idiot!!

Where does kerry getting any insight on calling for a resignation?

Was it military?

How about as a citizen of the United States of America? How about as a Senator?

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Where does kerry getting any insight on calling for a resignation?

Was it military?

What does this post mean? I'm interested in what you have to say, but have no idea what you're talking about.

If you're asking what his qualifications are to call for Rumsfeld's resignation, it seems to me that, after 19 years in the Senate, he has an unusually high level of qualification to make the suggestion. A lot of various writers, pundits, etc. made the same suggestion shortly after the Abu Ghraib scandal broke (including the editors of the Military Times newpapers), but they did not have his long career of public service in the Senate. As Conjur pointed out, it seems to me any American has the right to make the same suggestion, however.

 

[fjord]

2 different things:

War is violent. On the battlefield, violence is the norm.

Off the battlefield, like in military prisons--sadistic abuse and humiliation is not normal--vis-a-vis the Geneva conventions

Bush is ultimately responsible for our actions as "liberators"

Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld, amongst others should resign in shame.

 

[arsbanned]

Damn right that sadist Rumsfeld should pack his crap. Kerry has shown more real backbone during this campaign then Bush has shown throughout his 4 years in office , and this further illustrates that fact.

Why should Rumsfeld resign when John Kerry is running for President after ADMITTING to committing war crimes in Vietnam?

THE SWIFTBOAT LIES ARE NOW LIMITED TO ONE THREAD, OPIE.

 

[ciba]

Originally posted by: arsbanned
THE SWIFTBOAT LIES ARE NOW LIMITED TO ONE THREAD, OPIE.

He was not referencing anything having to do with a particular swift boat group. He referenced Kerry's testimony after he returned from Vietnam.

fjord: I'm appalled that you are giving Kerry a pass on his admitted violations of the Geneva Conventions. Regardless of what policy was, he had a responsibility to obey the law. He admits he knew his actions were illegal, but he committed the crimes anyways.

 

[Cobalt]

Originally posted by: Crimson
Why should Rumsfeld resign when John Kerry is running for President after ADMITTING to committing war crimes in Vietnam? Kerry has admitted to PERSONALLY being involved with illegal activities, yet Rumsfeld should resign? What don't I undertstand here?

For once, I agree. It's very hypocritical of Kerry to do this. Of course it would be wonderful if he resigned, I still think Kerry had no grounds to open his mouth.

 

[conehead433]

When Kerry gets elected Rummy will basically be fired since he will no longer have a job.