Kerry Backs Ban on Homosexual marriage in MA

bozack

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2000
7,913
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http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/articles/2004/02/26/kerry_backs_state_ban_on_gay_marriage/

"TOLEDO, Ohio -- Presidential candidate John F. Kerry said yesterday that he supports amending the Massachusetts Constitution to ban gay marriage and provide for civil unions for gay couples.

In his most explicit remarks on the subject yet, Kerry told the Globe that he would support a proposed amendment to the state Constitution that would prohibit gay marrriage so long as, while outlawing gay marriage, it also ensured that same-sex couples have access to all legal rights that married couples receive.

"If the Massachusetts Legislature crafts an appropriate amendment that provides for partnership and civil unions, then I would support it, and it would advance the goal of equal protection," the senator said yesterday, stressing that he was referring only to the state, and not the federal, Constitution. He has said he would oppose any amendment that did not include a provision for civil unions. "I think that you need to have civil union. That's my position," he said Tuesday.

Kerry's remarks angered supporters of gay marriage in Massachusetts, but could help stalled efforts by state legislative leaders to win support for their amendment. The amendment written by Senate President Robert E. Travaglini and Senate minority leader Brian Lees would restrict marriage to heterosexuals but create a same-sex civil union system that would provide all the benefits and protections of marriage.

"It is harmful for us and could well affect the vote," said Arline Isaacson, cochairwoman of the Massachusetts Gay and Lesbian Political Caucus, which strongly opposes such an amendment.

Over the last several weeks, as the debate over whether to amend the state Constitution has unfolded, Kerry has refused to offer a detailed position. He had said generally that he opposes gay marriage as well as the ruling by the Supreme Judicial Court that cleared the way for gay marriages, but that he supports civil unions. But he has not described his view of any specific amendment under discussion in the Legislature.

Nationally, Republicans have tried to pin Kerry down on the highly charged issue and hoped to use the controversy in Massachusetts as part of their efforts to paint him as a Northeast liberal out of synch with the rest of the country. They have also tried to use the complex nuances that surround gay-marriage issues and Kerry's statements to back up their charge that he is inconsistent on major policy issues.

Saying at the time that he opposed gay marriage, Kerry was one of 14 senators to vote against a federal law in 1996 defining marriage as a union only of a man and woman, saying it amounted to gay-bashing. Kerry has also denounced the push by President Bush this week to amend the US Constitution to outlaw gay marriage.

Kerry has said he opposed amending the US Constitution, because he believes the issue of marriage should be left to the states.

In the past several weeks, Kerry has been under pressure to take a position in the ongoing debate in Massachusetts.

Two weeks ago, a deadlocked state Legislature, meeting as a constitutional convention, spent two emotionally charged days grappling with proposals for amendments to ban gay marriage, but failed to find consensus. Lawmakers are scheduled to reconvene March 11. Voters would have a chance to make the final decision on an amendment in the November 2006 election.

The SJC ruling takes effect May 17. Barring legal maneuvers by opponents, the ruling gives a 2 1/2-year window in which gay couples can legally marry before voters decide the issue.

Not everyone on Beacon Hill said that Kerry's comments would affect the debate. Some called it a highly personal issue.

"Members are reaching their conclusions based on what they hear from their districts and what they feel in their hearts," said state Senator Andrea F. Nuciforo Jr., a Democrat from Pittsfield, who supports the Lees-Travaglini amendment. "No matter what the good senator or anyone of national prominence has to say, it is unlikely to influence any member of the constitutional convention."

Kerry's position is also contrary to that of the Massachusetts Democratic Party, which last month endorsed gay marriage.

Kerry has appeared reluctant to enter into the gay-marriage debate as it unfolded in his home state.

Earlier this year, Kerry was the only member of the state's all-Democrat congressional delegation who chose not to sign a letter urging the state Legislature to reject a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage. When the Legislature convened last month to consider amendment language, Kerry stayed silent, a position that drew criticism from several gay media outlets. New England's largest gay-targeted newspaper, In Newsweekly, cited Kerry's "flip-flops" on the issue of gay marriage in an editorial to be published today that endorses his rival, Senator John Edwards, for the Democratic presidential nomination."

Patrick Healy can be reached at phealy@globe.com.

 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
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Well I don't know about Liberals but I see it as him meaning that the States should decide whether it is permissable or not and not the Federal Government. I can tell you that I for one do not want the Dub and his minions messing around with our countries Constitution.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
I think Kerry is trying to curry more conservative votes. It's a mistake.

I just don't understand this hangup people have on the word marriage. Mind-boggling.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: bozack
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Bigot?

CkG

notice, not one liberal response yet....almost like they are ignoring it :)

They have to because they can't blast their "best hope" at beating Bush
rolleye.gif


CkG
 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
5,755
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You mean the hypocites who called Bush every name in the book (and that slimey POS, Harvey, who attacked Bush's family) aren't going to come in this thread and repeat it for their boy. How surprising. Clinton got a pass for signing the Defense of Marriage Act so I guess Kerry will get a pass on this. It's just reaffirmation of my belief it's Bush hatred that drives the red faced, ranting, liberal retards on this board and the actual issues have very little to do with it. Pathetic.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,916
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Well, while I am not a liberal I guess I can pass for one. I would have to say that Kerry, quite possibly is worse than a bigot because bigots are true to their bigotry. I think if Kerry were a private citizen he would vote to legalize gay marriage. That makes him a person willing to vote against his better judgment to get elected. That makes him a piece of sh!t in my opinion.

Of course sh!t is good for the garden. :D

 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
You mean the hypocites who called Bush every name in the book (and that slimey POS, Harvey, who attacked Bush's family) aren't going to come in this thread and repeat it for their boy. How surprising. Clinton got a pass for signing the Defense of Marriage Act so I guess Kerry will get a pass on this. It's just reaffirmation of my belief it's Bush hatred that drives the red faced, ranting, liberal retards on this board and the actual issues have very little to do with it. Pathetic.

Have a :beer: and relax with a smile knowing they might just be realizing what you already know;)

CkG
 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
5,755
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Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
You mean the hypocites who called Bush every name in the book (and that slimey POS, Harvey, who attacked Bush's family) aren't going to come in this thread and repeat it for their boy. How surprising. Clinton got a pass for signing the Defense of Marriage Act so I guess Kerry will get a pass on this. It's just reaffirmation of my belief it's Bush hatred that drives the red faced, ranting, liberal retards on this board and the actual issues have very little to do with it. Pathetic.

Have a :beer: and relax with a smile knowing they might just be realizing what you already know;)

CkG

Trust me, I'm relaxed and doing more than smiling. I'm laughing my ass off at these pathetic bastards.

 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
You mean the hypocites who called Bush every name in the book (and that slimey POS, Harvey, who attacked Bush's family) aren't going to come in this thread and repeat it for their boy. How surprising. Clinton got a pass for signing the Defense of Marriage Act so I guess Kerry will get a pass on this. It's just reaffirmation of my belief it's Bush hatred that drives the red faced, ranting, liberal retards on this board and the actual issues have very little to do with it. Pathetic.
If Kerry called for an ammendment to this nations constitution outlawing Gay Marriage, not only would those "Slimey Liberal Retards" be criticizing him but many Conservatives and Moderates would be too. He would as guilty of Pandering to the Ridiculous..err Religious Right as Bush is.

I believe that it should be left up to the States to decide. Right now in MASS it's 50/50 on that issue. In California the people have already spoken out against it (That's why those marriages in Frisco are invalid) I always thought that the Republicans were for States Rights, especially for things like Civil Unions and Marriage(Like Cheney). I guess Bush forgot to read that chapter in the Republicans Guide Book
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,916
6,569
126
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
You mean the hypocites who called Bush every name in the book (and that slimey POS, Harvey, who attacked Bush's family) aren't going to come in this thread and repeat it for their boy. How surprising. Clinton got a pass for signing the Defense of Marriage Act so I guess Kerry will get a pass on this. It's just reaffirmation of my belief it's Bush hatred that drives the red faced, ranting, liberal retards on this board and the actual issues have very little to do with it. Pathetic.

Have a :beer: and relax with a smile knowing they might just be realizing what you already know;)

CkG

What is that knowledge, Caddy? There are multitudes of liberals who are bigoted toward homosexuals. Bigotry is a disease you inherit from your surroundings. Bigotry and ignorance are pervasive in humanity.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
You mean the hypocites who called Bush every name in the book (and that slimey POS, Harvey, who attacked Bush's family) aren't going to come in this thread and repeat it for their boy. How surprising. Clinton got a pass for signing the Defense of Marriage Act so I guess Kerry will get a pass on this. It's just reaffirmation of my belief it's Bush hatred that drives the red faced, ranting, liberal retards on this board and the actual issues have very little to do with it. Pathetic.

Have a :beer: and relax with a smile knowing they might just be realizing what you already know;)

CkG

What is that knowledge, Caddy? There are multitudes of liberals who are bigoted toward homosexuals. Bigotry is a disease you inherit from your surroundings. Bigotry and ignorance are pervasive in humanity.

Maybe I was talking about UQ's post - not "gay" issues. UQ already knows the leftists don't really care about the issues - it's all about their hate of Bush. I'm sure some "red faced, ranting, liberal retards on this board" might just be realizing it for themselves.
You know(or maybe not)...the that whole thing with the lightbulb going on over your head;)

CkG
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
I don't know what you guys are all smug about. Read this carefully:

In his most explicit remarks on the subject yet, Kerry told the Globe that he would support a proposed amendment to the state Constitution that would prohibit gay marrriage so long as, while outlawing gay marriage, it also ensured that same-sex couples have access to all legal rights that married couples receive.

And so while there would be no "gay marriage" per se, Kerry is suggesting that civil unions should be given the same status as marriage and afforded all of the same legal rights. Cliff notes: civil unions = marriage. This is actually the preferred solution, only one-step short, as the state should really just recognize all marriage as civil union, elevate civil union to mean the same as marriage, and then let people do whatever they want.

EDIT: This does not necessarily mean that Kerry is not a bigot. He probably is. If he wasn't, he wouldn't be afraid of the word "marriage" when it comes to same-sex couples.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,916
6,569
126
Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
You mean the hypocites who called Bush every name in the book (and that slimey POS, Harvey, who attacked Bush's family) aren't going to come in this thread and repeat it for their boy. How surprising. Clinton got a pass for signing the Defense of Marriage Act so I guess Kerry will get a pass on this. It's just reaffirmation of my belief it's Bush hatred that drives the red faced, ranting, liberal retards on this board and the actual issues have very little to do with it. Pathetic.

Have a :beer: and relax with a smile knowing they might just be realizing what you already know;)

CkG

Trust me, I'm relaxed and doing more than smiling. I'm laughing my ass off at these pathetic bastards.

Of course in some circles that makes you equally pathetic. I, however, am not laughing. I keep remembering what it's like to be laughed at. Big people don't laugh at others, right? :D

 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I don't know what you guys are all smug about. Read this carefully:

In his most explicit remarks on the subject yet, Kerry told the Globe that he would support a proposed amendment to the state Constitution that would prohibit gay marrriage so long as, while outlawing gay marriage, it also ensured that same-sex couples have access to all legal rights that married couples receive.

And so while there would be no "gay marriage" per se, Kerry is suggesting that civil unions should be given the same status as marriage and afforded all of the same legal rights. Cliff notes: civil unions = marriage. This is actually the preferred solution, only one-step short, as the state should really just recognize all marriage as civil union, elevate civil union to mean the same as marriage, and then let people do whatever they want.

And Bush's amendment support is different how?

CkG
 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
5,755
0
0
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
You mean the hypocites who called Bush every name in the book (and that slimey POS, Harvey, who attacked Bush's family) aren't going to come in this thread and repeat it for their boy. How surprising. Clinton got a pass for signing the Defense of Marriage Act so I guess Kerry will get a pass on this. It's just reaffirmation of my belief it's Bush hatred that drives the red faced, ranting, liberal retards on this board and the actual issues have very little to do with it. Pathetic.
If Kerry called for an ammendment to this nations constitution outlawing Gay Marriage, not only would those "Slimey Liberal Retards" be criticizing him but many Conservatives and Moderates would be too. He would as guilty of Pandering to the Ridiculous..err Religious Right as Bush is.

I believe that it should be left up to the States to decide. Right now in MASS it's 50/50 on that issue. In California the people have already spoken out against it (That's why those marriages in Frisco are invalid) I always thought that the Republicans were for States Rights, especially for things like Civil Unions and Marriage(Like Cheney). I guess Bush forgot to read that chapter in the Republicans Guide Book

With 37 states already having outlawed gay marriage and the defense of marriage act already being federal law (which Kerry didn't vote for), a law which says that the .fed will not recognize gay marriages and that states do not have to recognize marriages performed in other states, gay marriages, for all intents and purposes, have been outlawed in this country. Anyone who criticizes Bush for what he is doing and is not simultaneously criticizing Kerry, Clinton, et al is nothing more than the aforementioned hypocrite.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,916
6,569
126
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I don't know what you guys are all smug about. Read this carefully:

In his most explicit remarks on the subject yet, Kerry told the Globe that he would support a proposed amendment to the state Constitution that would prohibit gay marrriage so long as, while outlawing gay marriage, it also ensured that same-sex couples have access to all legal rights that married couples receive.

And so while there would be no "gay marriage" per se, Kerry is suggesting that civil unions should be given the same status as marriage and afforded all of the same legal rights. Cliff notes: civil unions = marriage. This is actually the preferred solution, only one-step short, as the state should really just recognize all marriage as civil union, elevate civil union to mean the same as marriage, and then let people do whatever they want.
Where do you see the elevate part in his quote. How does legal civil union elevate to marriage. Where is the sacred vows in civil union?

 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
You mean the hypocites who called Bush every name in the book (and that slimey POS, Harvey, who attacked Bush's family) aren't going to come in this thread and repeat it for their boy. How surprising. Clinton got a pass for signing the Defense of Marriage Act so I guess Kerry will get a pass on this. It's just reaffirmation of my belief it's Bush hatred that drives the red faced, ranting, liberal retards on this board and the actual issues have very little to do with it. Pathetic.
If Kerry called for an ammendment to this nations constitution outlawing Gay Marriage, not only would those "Slimey Liberal Retards" be criticizing him but many Conservatives and Moderates would be too. He would as guilty of Pandering to the Ridiculous..err Religious Right as Bush is.

I believe that it should be left up to the States to decide. Right now in MASS it's 50/50 on that issue. In California the people have already spoken out against it (That's why those marriages in Frisco are invalid) I always thought that the Republicans were for States Rights, especially for things like Civil Unions and Marriage(Like Cheney). I guess Bush forgot to read that chapter in the Republicans Guide Book

With 37 states already having outlawed gay marriage and the defense of marriage act already being federal law (which Kerry voted for), a law which says that the .fed will not recognize gay marriages and that states do not have to recognize marriages performed in other states, gay marriages, for all intents and purposes, have been outlawed in this country. Anyone who criticizes Bush for what he is doing and is not simultaneously criticizing Kerry, Clinton, et al is nothing more than the aforementioned hypocrite.

Note to UQ - kerry voted against the DoMA;)

CkG
 

nutxo

Diamond Member
May 20, 2001
6,802
472
126
Originally posted by: bozack
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Bigot?

CkG

notice, not one liberal response yet....almost like they are ignoring it :)


This is like when Bush openend his military records a few weeks ago, and they still havent responded.
 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
5,755
0
0
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
You mean the hypocites who called Bush every name in the book (and that slimey POS, Harvey, who attacked Bush's family) aren't going to come in this thread and repeat it for their boy. How surprising. Clinton got a pass for signing the Defense of Marriage Act so I guess Kerry will get a pass on this. It's just reaffirmation of my belief it's Bush hatred that drives the red faced, ranting, liberal retards on this board and the actual issues have very little to do with it. Pathetic.
If Kerry called for an ammendment to this nations constitution outlawing Gay Marriage, not only would those "Slimey Liberal Retards" be criticizing him but many Conservatives and Moderates would be too. He would as guilty of Pandering to the Ridiculous..err Religious Right as Bush is.

I believe that it should be left up to the States to decide. Right now in MASS it's 50/50 on that issue. In California the people have already spoken out against it (That's why those marriages in Frisco are invalid) I always thought that the Republicans were for States Rights, especially for things like Civil Unions and Marriage(Like Cheney). I guess Bush forgot to read that chapter in the Republicans Guide Book

With 37 states already having outlawed gay marriage and the defense of marriage act already being federal law (which Kerry voted for), a law which says that the .fed will not recognize gay marriages and that states do not have to recognize marriages performed in other states, gay marriages, for all intents and purposes, have been outlawed in this country. Anyone who criticizes Bush for what he is doing and is not simultaneously criticizing Kerry, Clinton, et al is nothing more than the aforementioned hypocrite.

Note to UQ - kerry voted against the DoMA;)

CkG

My mistake. I read where he did. He's really a waffler isn't he.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Where do you see the elevate part in his quote. How does legal civil union elevate to marriage. Where is the sacred vows in civil union?
If civil unions have all of the same legal benefits and protections as marriage, then civil unions = marriage, right? The sacred vows can be exchanged in each couple's personal ceremony. Just because you have a civil union doesn't mean you can't exchange vows. Don't get me wrong, Kerry's proposed solution is not my ideal by any means.
 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
7,748
0
0
Well, no mainstream Presidential politician is going to touch that issue. Besides, the amendment is going exactly nowhere. We all have much bigger fish to fry.

UQ:

Why would you attack Harvey with such vitriol just because of a few remarks regarding Bush's family? You don't know Harvey from Bristol Cream. :) Anyway, from my perspective Harvey is one of the smartest and best informed folks who post here. You could do worse than to emulate his style and substance. My only regret is that he makes such rare appearances.

-Robert
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
You mean the hypocites who called Bush every name in the book (and that slimey POS, Harvey, who attacked Bush's family) aren't going to come in this thread and repeat it for their boy. How surprising. Clinton got a pass for signing the Defense of Marriage Act so I guess Kerry will get a pass on this. It's just reaffirmation of my belief it's Bush hatred that drives the red faced, ranting, liberal retards on this board and the actual issues have very little to do with it. Pathetic.
If Kerry called for an ammendment to this nations constitution outlawing Gay Marriage, not only would those "Slimey Liberal Retards" be criticizing him but many Conservatives and Moderates would be too. He would as guilty of Pandering to the Ridiculous..err Religious Right as Bush is.

I believe that it should be left up to the States to decide. Right now in MASS it's 50/50 on that issue. In California the people have already spoken out against it (That's why those marriages in Frisco are invalid) I always thought that the Republicans were for States Rights, especially for things like Civil Unions and Marriage(Like Cheney). I guess Bush forgot to read that chapter in the Republicans Guide Book

With 37 states already having outlawed gay marriage and the defense of marriage act already being federal law (which Kerry didn't vote for), a law which says that the .fed will not recognize gay marriages and that states do not have to recognize marriages performed in other states, gay marriages, for all intents and purposes, have been outlawed in this country. Anyone who criticizes Bush for what he is doing and is not simultaneously criticizing Kerry, Clinton, et al is nothing more than the aforementioned hypocrite.
Because Kerry isn't advocation messing with the Countries Constitution. In those 37 states Gay Marriage is outlawed but in the future if the people of those states have a change of heart they can reverse it. If the Dub and his Cohorts push a Constitutional Ammendment then those States will lose the right to change their laws and their minds!