- Nov 10, 2016
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Kellyanne Conway on surveillance: ‘I’m not in the job of having evidence’
- Thread starter yoddle
- Start date
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
- Jan 26, 2000
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I this instance she is correct and the headlines blather. She didn't say she had proof, she made conjectures which need to be backed up by investigations.
Of course the issue of Trump making a statement based on what he "learned" still stands, but that's on him for shooting off his mouth.
Of course the issue of Trump making a statement based on what he "learned" still stands, but that's on him for shooting off his mouth.
So every bullshit claim by the Admin needs to be investigated by Congress? Maybe that's a good idea. They'll be too busy with Benghazi type bullshit to do anything truly stupid.
Of course she's not in the job of having evidence but rather in the job of muddying the waters around Trump's bullshit claim of being wiretapped.
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
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You are making inferences for which there is no basis in your first sentence. I never implied such a foolish thing. In the second part of my post I mentioned that Trump made a statement where he shot his mouth off. That addresses the real issue in that regard. If he says he was wronged and he knows it he is obliged to show a basis for the claim before an investigation.
That said.
The OP lead in was completely misleading in context. Benghazi? I don't care. Like said to someone of your opposite sensibilities Obama isn't in office. Hillary lost. Trump is the head of the EO. Everything else is history. This does not make anyone immune including Obama or you for that matter. It comes down to something that has nothing to do with the strange game of sports team politics. No, it has to do with the accuracy of the story and that if the dog catcher for that matter makes a claim of wrongdoing some basis for investigation must exist. That is the beginning and the end of it no matter what KC says.
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
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She worded it poorly but it was pretty clear she didn't have anything concrete about Trumps case and was talking generally. The interviewer said as much. Hey I don't care for her any more than anyone else but you can't arrive at truths without contextual facts. Would I trust her? No, not at all. She has not merited that whatsoever. There's lots she can be gone after without playing with snippets out of context.
Conway reveals another super secret CIA surveillance tool while dodging a question about whether she believes Donnie's claim that Obama put a tap on his wires and stole his strawberries:
Lol!
Lol!
The so-called investigation is merely obfuscation. As Prez, Trump has the power to investigate & declassify evidence wrt his bogus wiretapping claim independent of Congress entirely. He is in full command of any agency that could have been responsible.
The rest is just post-truth embellishment & obfuscation.
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
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shortylickens
No Lifer
- Jul 15, 2003
- 80,287
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If she were in high school she'd be getting an F.
Why do we hold teenyboppers to higher standards than the White House?
Why do we hold teenyboppers to higher standards than the White House?
trenchfoot
Lifer
- Aug 5, 2000
- 16,005
- 8,597
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Confuse, befuddle, twist and spin, deflect/misdirect, the hanging lie, speculate and inundate, deceive, loudly accuse and very quietly retract if forced to, FUD, disenfranchise, obstruct to destruct.......I could go on and on with these descriptives, and to think that I've had to ramp up the use of these terms and catch-isms from the moment Trump tossed his hat in the ring. Well, I can see where Trump can and probably will wear down the will of many of those who oppose his "unique" style of leadership and simply surrender to his mind numbing/bending charms and witty story telling talents. With folks like Kellyanne Conway working his magic, it's practically inevitable.
I mean, he's got what, ~43% of the population supporting him for no other reason than loyalty to party no matter how far he pushes what used to be the known limits of incredulity and other worldly behavior. He's set new precedents to the office of the presidency at a record breaking pace to the point where it's more than acceptable for his supporters that he refuse to reveal his tax documents for the sake of his credibility and trustworthiness, that he refuses to divest his business interests and seamlessly conjoins his business interests with his responsibilities as POTUS. Much of which leaves him vulnerable to external influences in so many nation-threatening ways.
But hey, his supporters have realized that a new state of normalcy to the office of the presidency exists simply because he said he supports their higher belief in nationalism and nativism and all of the negative regressive inferences that goes with it. But woe unto any Democrat that would dare to mimic Trump's behavior. That person would be declared insane, irrational, anti-American, a Putin loving commie, beneath the dignity of the office, wholly un-presidential.
Funny how things work out that way.
I mean, he's got what, ~43% of the population supporting him for no other reason than loyalty to party no matter how far he pushes what used to be the known limits of incredulity and other worldly behavior. He's set new precedents to the office of the presidency at a record breaking pace to the point where it's more than acceptable for his supporters that he refuse to reveal his tax documents for the sake of his credibility and trustworthiness, that he refuses to divest his business interests and seamlessly conjoins his business interests with his responsibilities as POTUS. Much of which leaves him vulnerable to external influences in so many nation-threatening ways.
But hey, his supporters have realized that a new state of normalcy to the office of the presidency exists simply because he said he supports their higher belief in nationalism and nativism and all of the negative regressive inferences that goes with it. But woe unto any Democrat that would dare to mimic Trump's behavior. That person would be declared insane, irrational, anti-American, a Putin loving commie, beneath the dignity of the office, wholly un-presidential.
Funny how things work out that way.
Sheik Yerbouti
Lifer
- Feb 16, 2005
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Personally I believe that you describe the actual reality of our current American life perfectly. This is what is. But I hear in your post an anger and frustration and deep abhorrence more than acceptance as fact. I am trying to make what I consider a subtle point here I am not sure how to make. I would call your state of mind a reaction rather than a plan. I see in your post what I call the liberal brain defect, the unconscious assumption that people are motivated and driven by reason when in fact what drives people is what they are feeling. This is the reality that conservatives want because it satisfies their emotional needs, needs they aren't even consciously aware of.
My point, if I have one, is that in a state of shock and disbelief, liberals are at a loss about what to do. What they are looking at is that this leads to madness rather than what to do about it. This liberal brain defect, in my opinion, keeps them from envisioning any answers. The only place there can be answers, in my opinion, is in understanding what people feel. In order to do that we need to know what we feel. Step one, I would say, is that America is exactly as you described above. What do you feel about that?
trenchfoot
Lifer
- Aug 5, 2000
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Awesome question that compelled me to introspect in a way that brought forth more questions than answers.
I'll defer with those questions that took me down some rather interesting avenues and stick with what I "feel" is the essence of the text I bolded in your post.
On most days shortly after waking up, I dutifully get the SSS over with and finish things off with looking at myself in the mirror and reminding myself that as far as I'm concerned I ain't nobody special yet I do need to take care of those that are special to me. I then give myself the single digit salute and sally forth with finding out what's so interesting about the day I'm going to live in. This is how things are in the realm that I have a modicum of control over.
My singular duty is to spoil my wifey rotten as she does the same for me. Next in order is to be there for the kids when they need me (both are adults) and let them live their lives as they wish. After that, it's having as much fun at work as work allows while being as productive as I can be, with the overall objective of being a positive influence in the workplace with discretion and subtlety as the guiding beacons while I'm in shop.
Being practical and logical are goals that rule my day. I try to understand others as best I can so that I can treat them the way they like to treated.
Now, with the aforementioned mindset to help me be mindful of others and be as helpful to others as possible (without being intrusive, of course) I can truly say that I am content with my life at this point in time, although I am always willing to make the necessary changes in my habits and behavior to accommodate others within range of me and my influence, intended or unintended.
With these life's tools that I've earned and learned and paid dearly for, I face the realities of a political system that brings out the very worst in people, a system that in order to overcome the opposition building walls instead of bridges is the order of the day, a system that relies on corrupting others for personal gain, where being stabbed in the back is business as usual and where having integrity and honor gets you nowhere fast. This is not how I live my life and I would object to anyone that would suggest I should "to get ahead".
I actually used to give respect and think highly of our politicians. Imagine that. Granted there are a few remaining that I tip my hat to, but they are the exception to the rule when the crooked ones are supposed to fill that niche.
We now have a POTUS who prescribes to a form of wealth gathering to the extreme excess, who is the quintessential manifestation of these kinds of hoarders. He is the exact antithesis of what I believe a president of the United States should be. He is not representative of the working class, he is not representative of the poor. He shows absolutely no genuine concern or compassion for a class of people that is foreign to his upbringing. IMO, he, like many of his ilk consider themselves privileged and powerful, and therefore the rightful "owners" of the nation AND the rulers of the "people who live under them".
So what I feel about having Trump and the GOP having control over the nation is most of all sorrow for the middle class and the poor in that they deserve much better than what Trump and the GOP have in store for them. Although I am from the middle class I think I'm OK financially what with the planning and effort I put into having as much of a secure life in my declining years, of which I consider the best years of my life, as I think so many folks my age feel similarly. So in this specific instance, I feel no sorrow for myself.
I feel that I'm not angry, nor do I feel that I feel frustrated simply because it's a waste of time, it's distracting and serves no practical purpose. It's also bad for my health and well being. I pursue happiness with a vengeance.
What I post about is what I observe and the only way I can observe what's actually happening around me is to remain calm (I was sort'a born that way I'm told). That part of me was also painfully reinforced by being indoctrinated in the martial arts at a very young age. Another aspect of that indoctrination was having a better sense of situational awareness and an appreciation of the knowledge that I am an integral harmonious part of everything else that, in my limited capacity, exists.
So what I express in my posts in this forum I keep separate from my daily life. This forum is the only occasion where I share my opinion about all things political as it's my policy never to mix politics or religion with friends and acquaintances. Also, I hang out here more to learn than to preach as there are outstanding individuals in this forum from both sides of the aisle of whom I have been blessed with the knowledge they freely share, you being one of them.
I could go on and on with stuff like this, but to save you the grief, I'll stop right here.
I also acknowledge the fact that your query was meant moreso for my benefit and not so much for yours.
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I think this is where you gave an answer to my question what do you feel. "Sorrow" I found this about that word that I would like to share:
Sorrow (emotion)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sorrow, drawing by Vincent van Gogh, 1882
Part of a series on
Emotions
- Affection
- Anger
- Angst
- Anguish
- Annoyance
- Anticipation
- Anxiety
- Apathy
- Arousal
- Awe
- Boredom
- Confidence
- Contempt
- Contentment
- Courage
- Curiosity
- Depression
- Desire
- Despair
- Disappointment
- Disgust
- Distrust
- Ecstasy
- Embarrassment
- Empathy
- Envy
- Euphoria
- Fear
- Frustration
- Gratitude
- Grief
- Guilt
- Happiness
- Hatred
- Hope
- Horror
- Hostility
- Humiliation
- Interest
- Jealousy
- Joy
- Loneliness
- Love
- Lust
- Outrage
- Panic
- Passion
- Pity
- Pleasure
- Pride
- Rage
- Regret
- Remorse
- Resentment
- Sadness
- Saudade
- Schadenfreude
- Self-confidence
- Shame
- Shock
- Shyness
- Sorrow
- Suffering
- Surprise
- Trust
- Wonder
- Worry
Moreover, "in terms of attitude, sorrow can be said to be half way between sadness (accepting) and distress (not accepting)".[2]
Contents
Cult
Romanticism saw a cult of sorrow develop, reaching back to The Sorrows of Young Werther of 1774, and extending through the nineteenth century with contributions like Tennyson's "In Memoriam" — "O Sorrow, wilt thou live with me/No casual mistress, but a wife"[3] — up to W. B. Yeats in 1889, still "of his high comrade Sorrow dreaming".[4] While it may be that "the Romantic hero's cult of sorrow is largely a matter of pretence",[5] as Jane Austen pointed out satirically through Marianne Dashwood, "brooding over her sorrows... this excess of suffering"[6] could have serious consequences.
Partly in reaction, the 20th century has by contrast been pervaded by the belief that "acting sorrowful can actually make me sorrowful, as William James long ago observed".[7] Certainly "in the modern Anglo-emotional culture, characterized by the 'dampening of the emotions' in general... sorrow has largely given way to the milder, less painful, and more transient sadness".[8] A latter-day Werther is likely to be greeted by the call to '"Come off it, Gordon. We all know there is no sorrow like unto your sorrow"';[9] while any conventional 'valeoftearishness and deathwhereisthystingishness' would be met by the participants 'looking behind the sombre backs of one another's cards and discovering their brightly-colored faces'.[10] Perhaps only the occasional subculture like the Jungian would still seek to 'call up from the busy adult man the sorrow of animal life, the grief of all nature, "the tears of things"'.[11]
Late modernity has (if anything) only intensified the shift: 'the postmodern is closer to the human comedy than to the abyssal discontent...the abyss of sorrow'.[12]
Postponement
'Not feeling sorrow invites fear into our lives. The longer we put off feeling sorrow, the greater our fear of it becomes. Postponing the expression of the feeling causes its energy to grow'.[13] At the same time, it would seem that 'grief in general is a "taming" of the primitive violent discharge affect, characterized by fear and self-destruction, to be seen in mourning'.[14]
Julia Kristeva suggests that 'taming sorrow, not fleeing sadness at once but allowing it to settle for a while...is what one of the temporary and yet indispensable phases of analysis might be'.[15]
Shand and McDougall
Sadness is one of four interconnected sentiments in the system of Alexander Faulkner Shand, the others being fear, anger, and joy. In this system, when an impulsive tendency towards some important object is frustrated, the resultant sentiment is sorrow.[16]
In Shand's view, the emotion of sorrow, which he classifies as a primary emotion, has two impulses: to cling to the object of sorrow, and to repair the injuries done to that object that caused the emotion in the first place. Thus the primary emotion of sorrow is the basis for the emotion of pity, which Shand describes as a fusion of sorrow and joy: sorrow at the injury done to the object of pity, and joy as an "element of sweetness" tinging that sorrow.[17]
William McDougall disagreed with Shand's view, observing that Shand himself recognized that sorrow was itself derived from simpler elements. To support this argument, he observes that grief, at a loss, is a form of sorrow where there is no impulse to repair injury, and that therefore there are identifiable subcomponents of sorrow. He also observes that although there is an element of emotional pain in sorrow, there is no such element in pity, thus pity is not a compound made from sorrow as a simpler component.[17]
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I found this from the above especially interesting:
Sorrow is an emotion, feeling, or sentiment. Sorrow "is more 'intense' than sadness... it implies a long-term state".[1] At the same time "sorrow — but not unhappiness — suggests a degree of resignation... which lends sorrow its peculiar air of dignity".[2]
Moreover, "in terms of attitude, sorrow can be said to be half way between sadness (accepting) and distress (not accepting)".[2]
There is a poem a Zen Master wrote on the death of his son:
This little dew drop world
It may be only a dew drop
And yet, and yet!
I was curious as to how sorrow and grief differ and I looked at wiki grief also, but didn't quote it as it is quite long. It mentions the five stages of grief, one of which is denial. I wonder if that doesn't say a lot about how Trump got elected. The people you feel sorry for, maybe they can't allow themselves to let that feeling in. The broken are easier to help, to allow others their sorrow for them, I would say then people with emotionally damaged egos in denial about it.
Your emotional openness and willingness to share speak 'emotional health' to me.
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