Keeping the girls happy

[sunburninaz]

My daughters (ages 9, 7 & 4) have been perfectly happy using an old hand-me-down K6-2 500 / Gigabyte motherboard system. Recently, however, the oldest daughter decided she needed a certain program that required more video memory than the old machine could offer. What I found is that, in order to upgrade the video card, I needed to upgrade just about everything.

The girls don't play serious games. The Tycoon (Rollercoaster, Zoo, Mall, etc.) products are about the most memory/processor intensive programs it'll see - at least in the next year or so. I'm trying to keep this fairly cheap. Ironically, no matter what I do it'll cost probably at least six times the cost of the program requiring the upgrade!

I am looking for a comparison between an AMD Athlon XP 1800 on an ECS K7SA5 Pro board and a Celeron 2.4 GHz on a Via P4PB 400-FL board. The diffference in cost between the two is about $20 (on the Intel side). I have 512 MB DDR PC2100 waiting to go to work in whatever system I decide to build.

I've seen a few comparisons in the forums that compare Athlons and Celerons but they are typically the same speeds or, in one case, the comparison was between an Athlon 2000 and a 1.7GHz Celeron. The Athlon seems to be the overwhelming choice of gamers but I don't think that what the girls are playing compares. At this point I'd like to hear opinions as to the preferred processor for my purposes and whether the Via motherboard would sway any opinions as opposed to the ECS board.

Thanks!

 

[ethebubbeth]

There are some people who swear by the k7s5a pro, although my experiences with its non-pro sibling have been less than satisfactory. IMOHO, it would be better to go with the athlon because even if your performance is a little lower than with the celeron, you have a much more upgradeable system with the k7s5a pro.

 

[magomago]

the athlon will mow down that P4.

I remember reading an article comparing the 1600+ and a 2Ghz P4....only when the P4 was at 3Ghz did preformance start to creep up on the 1800+


But go for the 1800+ /k7s5apro

Frys combo for 59.99 which is a nice price!

and even if they do word where the Celeron might pull ahead due to Mhz or whatever it isn't going to be anything remotely noticable.

and my best friend has three sisters who are 14-15, the other is like 9 and the ohter is like 6 and they are obsessed with anything "tycoon" also! Even if its crap- and beyond that they don't care for any games..but you should see them play Roller Coaster tycoon! Its scary watchin a six year old setup a better park in 1 hour than you could if you had three days to plan it.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: magomago
the athlon will mow down that P4.

I remember reading an article comparing the 1600+ and a 2Ghz P4....only when the P4 was at 3Ghz did preformance start to creep up on the 1800+


But go for the 1800+ /k7s5apro

Frys combo for 59.99 which is a nice price!

and even if they do word where the Celeron might pull ahead due to Mhz or whatever it isn't going to be anything remotely noticable.

and my best friend has three sisters who are 14-15, the other is like 9 and the ohter is like 6 and they are obsessed with anything "tycoon" also! Even if its crap- and beyond that they don't care for any games..but you should see them play Roller Coaster tycoon! Its scary watchin a six year old setup a better park in 1 hour than you could if you had three days to plan it.

This is not very accurate.

However, both setups should perform very similar to each other. It would be a matter of preference.

 

[mechBgon]

I'm suggesting the Asus A7N266-VM/AA, which has onboard 32MB GeForce2MX-level video already (it uses system memory), plus great onboard audio, high reliability and stability, and a price that's not much higher than the K7S5A Pro. I've played UT2003 Demo at 800 x 600 with the onboard video (it also has an AGP 4x slot available), so while it's not cutting-edge, it's not going to have a problem with the girls' games.

I also maintain two dozen A7N266-VM systems at the office so I've got a large sample by which to judge their reliability. Used with Win2000 Pro, they're a dream (people report the same with WinXP). You can use them with Win98 as well (I dual-boot Win98SE/Win2000 at home on one) but you need to do a couple extra steps to install the drivers. If you get one, you can PM me if you need a hand.

Oh, and since you're new here, 1) welcome to the Forums, and 2) by "PM me," I mean send me a Private Message (click the padlock symbol at the right on my post).

 

[0roo0roo]

ecs isn't bad i got a few. just don't feed it lousy memory. it sometimes rejects 2 pc 133 or whatever but is fineewith one dimm. ddr its fine with regardless.

just make sure your comp is nice and quiet.

 

[nimo]

Unless the program needed T&L
You can upgrade your vid card for 30$ easily and continue to run your pc

 

[digitalsm]

Originally posted by: nimo
Unless the program needed T&L
You can upgrade your vid card for 30$ easily and continue to run your pc

It sounds like he has an intergrated video card which means no AGP slot(well atleast back in the K6-2 500 days).

 

[nimo]

Yes, my guess is that he needs a PCI card
But there are great PCI cards out there some even with 64mb
And they are cheap as chips

So again unless the application needs T&L which is unlikely
Video card upgrade is feasible alternative to a system upgrade

 

[Kartajan]

Cheap 64M Video Cards at newegg.. Not even on sale...

And this is for the best that PCI can give, 32M cards are cheaper...

32 MB PCI Video cards...

Directly to under $35.00

edit: as to the original question, I haven't seen a direct review comparing the 2, but I concur that it is more a matter of personal preference. Keep in mind that the AMD, while a little faster, also runs a bit hotter. For kids/ GF's, wives, etc- I prefer to use the intel stuff. (of course, right now I am too- but I am more inclined to switch back & forth)

 

[jacktesterson]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: magomago
the athlon will mow down that P4.

I remember reading an article comparing the 1600+ and a 2Ghz P4....only when the P4 was at 3Ghz did preformance start to creep up on the 1800+


But go for the 1800+ /k7s5apro

Frys combo for 59.99 which is a nice price!

and even if they do word where the Celeron might pull ahead due to Mhz or whatever it isn't going to be anything remotely noticable.

and my best friend has three sisters who are 14-15, the other is like 9 and the ohter is like 6 and they are obsessed with anything "tycoon" also! Even if its crap- and beyond that they don't care for any games..but you should see them play Roller Coaster tycoon! Its scary watchin a six year old setup a better park in 1 hour than you could if you had three days to plan it.

This is not very accurate.

However, both setups should perform very similar to each other. It would be a matter of preference.

This is not accuarate. The XP/K7S5A Pro will slaughter that Celeron 2.4 to hell and back

 

[fell8]

I agree with nemo, go with a cheap PCI card.

 

[sunburninaz]

Shoulda come here first - I never thought about going with a PCI video card. Wonder why none of the salesmen suggested it???

The Gigabyte board in the current system only has an AGP1.0 slot whereas it is nearly impossible to find any AGP card that will function properly in it. While I do have a spare PCI slot, I think I might as well go thru with upgrading their system (I think I'm past the timeframe to return the memory...).

Thanks for all the input so far!!!!

 

[dexvx]

Originally posted by: sunburninaz
Shoulda come here first - I never thought about going with a PCI video card. Wonder why none of the salesmen suggested it???

The Gigabyte board in the current system only has an AGP1.0 slot whereas it is nearly impossible to find any AGP card that will function properly in it. While I do have a spare PCI slot, I think I might as well go thru with upgrading their system (I think I'm past the timeframe to return the memory...).

Because its better business for you to buy a combo from them, meaning you have to upgrade your memory and potentially the PSU and other equipment.

If its an AGP 1.0 (2X), then the best card you can use is an original GeForce DDR. However, there are many many many horror stories from the ancient K6 2/3 boards + nVidia/ATI AGP cards. Personally I dont trust VIA, so I'd opt for the ECS/1800+ combo. Performance wise, they'd be more or less similar.

 

[sunburninaz]

Am I correct in reading, more or less, that an Athlon XP 1800 (clock speed of 1.53 GHz and 266MHz FSB) will be the better choice or at least the equivalent of a 2.4 GHz Celeron (400 MHz FSB)? Is this due to the 256KB of cache for the Athlon as opposed to 128 for the Celeron or is it for some other reason?

Thanks again!

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: sunburninaz
Am I correct in reading, more or less, that an Athlon XP 1800 (clock speed of 1.53 GHz and 266MHz FSB) will be the better choice or at least the equivalent of a 2.4 GHz Celeron (400 MHz FSB)? Is this due to the 256KB of cache for the Athlon as opposed to 128 for the Celeron or is it for some other reason?

Thanks again!

The Celeron is not very powerful per MHz. It was based off the original Pentium4 core, the Williamette. The Williamette had 256KB of Level-2 cache and a 400MHz bus speed, and was generally not a match for the AthlonXP at the equivalent PR rating (1.8GHz <--> 1800+ for example). Since the Celeron has only half the L2 cache of a Williamette, it performs even worse. Therefore, everyone gives the nod to an AthlonXP here despite its much-lower MHz.

The newer Northwood Pentium4, with 512KB of L2 cache, was a better performer and particularly improved when the bus speed was raised (first to 533MHz, then to 800MHz). So today's Celeron has 1/4 the L2 cache of today's Pentium4, and there's a large performance difference between them, on a per-MHz basis.

My analogy is this:

• take a bag of Doritos
• pound it with your fist a few times
• stick a label on the outside of the bag saying "now 30% more chips inside!!!"
• tada, you've got a Celeron

 

[dmw16]

Without knowing what the program is, I cant say for sure, but if it is just a video memory thing get a cheapo PCI video card. TNT2 or whatever.
-doug

 

[digitalsm]

A 2.4 celeron will get the crap kicked out of it. You cant compare Ghz to Ghz in different product lines. The celeron is a heavily crippled P4, and its more than just the cache IIRC.

 

[GonzoDaGr8]

My analogy is this:
1.take a bag of Doritos

2.pound it with your fist a few times

3.stick a label on the outside of the bag saying "now 30% more chips inside!!!"

4.tada, you've got a Celeron

Perfect analogy Mech....Too Damn funny.

 

[Goi]

I would actually recommend a cheap Dell combo, some of them are going for below $400 for almost an entire system, and since it doesn't sound like your kids need a lot of computing power, these systems should be more than enough for them. Plus, they're cheap and comes with technical support should anything happen. Sounds perfect to me in this application.

 

[MDE]

Originally posted by: mechBgonMy analogy is this:

• take a bag of Doritos
• pound it with your fist a few times
• stick a label on the outside of the bag saying "now 30% more chips inside!!!"
• tada, you've got a Celeron

Straight into my sig...pure genius.