I totally agree that all scientists should question their assumptions. Science is about investigation. My point is that there still is no scientifically accepted proof there is a gay gene. From my perspective I would think both sides would like to fund it; the gays because it will vindicate them, the traditionalists because it will prove they were correct in saying it is something else other than genetics. Since there is no firm scientific findings (each side has studies defending their view) and the APA is still debating (They approved the removal of Homosexuality from the manual, true, but AFAIK they have not come out and firmly said without a shadow of a doubt this is what causes it). So for now it is pretty much one side and their scientists versus the other sides.
I totally agree that all scientists should question their assumptions. Science is about investigation. My point is that there still is no scientifically accepted proof there is a gay gene. From my perspective I would think both sides would like to fund it; the gays because it will vindicate them, the traditionalists because it will prove they were correct in saying it is something else other than genetics. Since there is no firm scientific findings (each side has studies defending their view) and the APA is still debating (They approved the removal of Homosexuality from the manual, true, but AFAIK they have not come out and firmly said without a shadow of a doubt this is what causes it). So for now it is pretty much one side and their scientists versus the other sides.
I'm not repeating things, I know them
Please, by all means show me your numbers. I'd love to see your 85% stat.
BoberFett
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 37,562
- 9
- 81
Rove's orientation or that of his family is irrelevant. Those using it now in an smear campaign puts them right up there with Rove in the scum sucking category. Congratulations, the left has sunk as low as the right. Hope you're proud of yourselves, scum suckers.
Originally posted by: LEDominator
I'm not repeating things, I know them
Observation. Learn to use it instead of listening to other people.
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Originally posted by: LEDominator
I'm not repeating things, I know them
Observation. Learn to use it instead of listening to other people.
I am, hence my not listening to you, lol. Has corruption occured? yes, but I think your "85%" stat is totally bogus, and that is aparent in how you avoided addressing it
shira
Diamond Member
- Jan 12, 2005
- 9,500
- 6
- 81
And in fact it doesn't matter what science is or is not able to prove. On matters of ideology, people don't pay attention to objective truth. If the existence of a "gay gene" were conclusively demonstrated or (alternatively) if homosexuality were somehow proven to be a completely volitional lifestyle choice, positions would not change at all. Color me cynical, but I believe that all that would change would be the rationalizations given to support existing beliefs.
myocardia
Diamond Member
- Jun 21, 2003
- 9,291
- 30
- 91
That couldn't be more true. The religious right has been doing this for as long as I can remember, and I'm not exactly young anymore, as my daughter keeps reminding me. For instance, if anyone had mentioned the word evolution to them at any point in time, up until a few years ago, their response would have been "It absolutely doesn't exist. It never has, and it never will.", because it would mean that the book that they live their lives according to was wrong.
Mention evolution to one of them now, and you'll get a totally different answer, because one of their "leaders" came up with this far fetched idea that god invented evolution, so of course it exists, and has since god created the first man, without being intelligent enough to provide him with a way to reproduce, except as an afterthought.
BoberFett
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 37,562
- 9
- 81
Reading garbage like the sh!t that just dribbled onto your keyboard reminds me why I hate the left as much as I do the right.Originally posted by: myocardia
That couldn't be more true. The religious right has been doing this for as long as I can remember, and I'm not exactly young anymore, as my daughter keeps reminding me. For instance, if anyone had mentioned the word evolution to them at any point in time, up until a few years ago, their response would have been "It absolutely doesn't exist. It never has, and it never will.", because it would mean that the book that they live their lives according to was wrong.
Mention evolution to one of them now, and you'll get a totally different answer, because one of their "leaders" came up with this far fetched idea that god invented evolution, so of course it exists, and has since god created the first man, without being intelligent enough to provide him with a way to reproduce, except as an afterthought.
Fvcktards like you keep centrists like me from voting for Democrats. I want the Republicans out, but not bad enough to send a vote to you and your ilk. I'll stick to third parties.
Originally posted by: LEDominator
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Originally posted by: LEDominator
I'm not repeating things, I know them
Observation. Learn to use it instead of listening to other people.
I am, hence my not listening to you, lol. Has corruption occured? yes, but I think your "85%" stat is totally bogus, and that is aparent in how you avoided addressing it
You haven't been paying attention for the last 5 years. That is avoiding the point on your part. All the smiley faces in the world won't change that!
Here is a little list of corruption. Let's see you find a compareable recent democrat list. This is a list of some republicans in the last 5 years... so you'd need a list that takes place in the last 5 years as well. Under investigation or convicted counts. Good luck!
# Vice President Dick Cheney's Chief of Staff Scooter Libby resigns after being indicted on felony charges of obstruction of justice, perjury and making false statements in the CIA leak investigation
# Jack Abramoff has been ordered to report to prison by June 29th, 2006. There are two separate prosecutions against Jack Abramoff.
The first is focused on Abramoff's defrauding of investors in his purchase, along with Adam Kidan, of SunCruz, a fleet of casino boats. That investigation is being handled by the U.S. Attorney's Office in Florida. Abramoff was indicted for his involvement in the SunCruz fraud case August 11th, 2005 and pled guilty January 4th, 2006 to two counts (Conspiracy to Defraud the United States and Wire Fraud). He, along with Kidan, was sentenced March 29th to five years, 10 months in prison. Abramoff's yet to be sentenced in the other case.
The other case relates to bribing public officials and defrauding his Indian clients - it's being led by Justice Department prosecutors and is proceeding in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia. Jack Abramoff pled guilty January 3rd, 2006 to three counts (Conspiracy to Defraud the United States, Mail Fraud, and Tax Evasion). A status conference is scheduled for June 6th.
# Tom DeLay, former GOP House Majority Leader already under indictment in Texas, suddenly resigned from Congress Tuesday under a swirling dark cloud of corruption speculation after two of his former senior aids copped pleas and a third may be about to follow suit.
# Senate Republican Majority Leader Bill Frist is under investigation for possible securities violations regarding his stock in the company his family founded.
# Republican Congressman Randall (Duke) Cunningham sentenced to eight years and four months in prison after pleading guilty to federal charges of accepting over two million dollars in bribes from a defense contractor while we were at war.
# Presidential Domestic Policy Advisor and self proclaimed Christian conservative Claude Allen arrested for shoplifting over $5,000 worth of items from Target stores.
# In August of 2005 Republican Gov. Bob Taft pleaded no contest to four criminal ethics charges for his failure to disclose golf outings paid for by lobbyists, as well as undisclosed gifts worth $5,800, he was fined $4,000 plus court costs.
# In September of 2005 Republican Ernie Fletcher fired 9 of his own staffers for a crony hiring scandal, all of whom he had recently pardoned. Among them was Richard Murgatroyd, Fletcher's deputy chief of staff.
# Department of Homeland Security Assistant Press Secretary Brian Doyle facing arrest on 23 charges related to soliciting sex from a 14 year-old minor in a police sting operation.
# Ed Buckham, former chief of staff to Tom DeLay and later Chairman of the lobbying firm Alexander Strategy Group, appeared in Tony Rudy's guilty plea as "Lobbyist B." According to the plea, Buckham helped in routing $50,000 in payments to Rudy's wife's consulting firm - the money was to bribe Rudy for his help defeating a bill on behalf of Jack Abramoff's client. Tony Rudy is another former staffer to Tom Delay, who has also plead guilty to charges in the Abramoff lobbyist scandal.
# John Colyandro was Executive Director of Tom DeLay's PAC Texans for a Republican Majority. He, along with Jim Ellis, was indicted for Money Laundering in 2004 alleging an illegal money swap with the Republican National State Elections Committee, an arm of the Republican National Committee. Colyandro also faces a charge for Unlawful Acceptance of a Contribution from a Corporation.
# Jim Ellis was Executive Director of DeLay's PAC Americans for a Republican Majority. He, along with John Colyandro, was indicted for Money Laundering in 2004 alleging an illegal money swap with the Republican National State Elections Committee, an arm of the Republican National Committee.
# Chuck McGee, the former Executive Director of the New Hampshire Republican State Committee, pled guilty July 28th, 2004 to one count: Conspiracy to engage in interstate telephone communications with the intent to annoy or harass. On March 11th, 2005, he was sentenced to 7 months in prison, which he began serving April 26th, 2005. He served his time and has been released.
# Rep. Bob Ney (R-OH) is being investigated for accepting bribes from Jack Abramoff and Michael Scanlon. He was named as a coconspirator ("Representative #1") in Abramoff's plea and ("Legislator #1") in Scanlon's plea and (Representative #1) in Tony Rudy's plea.
# Allen Raymond, president of GOP Marketplace, pled guilty June 30th, 2004 to one count: Conspiracy to engage in interstate telephone communications with the intent to annoy or harass. On February 8th, 2005, he was sentenced to 5 months in prison. He made a motion to reduce his sentence; on February 2nd, he was sentenced to 3 months in prison, even though the prosecution only asked for house arrest.
# Warren RoBold was a fundraiser for Tom DeLay's PACs (TRMPAC and ARMPAC) and was indicted in 2004 for taking illegal corporate money for TRMPAC - nine counts of Unlawful Acceptance of a Political Contribution from a Corporation. RoBold is charged with nine separate third-degree felonies, each of which carries a maximum sentence of 10 years in prison.
# Tony Rudy pled guilty March 31 to one count of Conspiracy. He was a former aide to Tom DeLay, a colleague of Jack Abramoff's and then a lobbyist at Alexander Strategy Group. He was named ("Staffer A") as a coconspirator in Abramoff's plea.
# David Safavian was indicted October 5th, 2005 for Obstruction of Proceedings before an Agency and Making False Statements. He is accused of lying to investigators about his dealings with Jack Abramoff while he was chief of staff for the General Services Administration. He went on to be the government's top procurement officer in the Office of Management and Budget until he had to step down because of the investigation.
# On November 21st, 2005, Michael Scanlon, Jack Abramoff's partner in the Indian fraud and bribery schemes, pled guilty to Conspiracy to Defraud the United States.
# James Tobin, the former New England Regional Political Director for the Republian National Committee, was found guilty December 15th, 2005 of two counts: Conspiracy to commit the commission of interstate telephone harassment and Aiding and abetting the commission of interstate telephone harassment. He was acquitted of a third count, Conspiracy against voters' rights.
# Neil Volz, a former aide to Bob Ney and member of Team Abramoff, was named ("Staffer B") as a coconspirator in Abramoff's plea.
# Republican George Ryan was the Governor of Illinois from 1999 until 2003. Ryan's term in office was marked by a scandal involving the illegal sale of government licenses, contracts and leases by state employees during his prior service as Secretary of State; in the wake of numerous convictions of former aides, he chose not to run for reelection in 2002. In December 2003 he was indicted on 18 federal racketeering, fraud and conspiracy charges. His trial got underway in September 2005.
# Bob Livingston (R-Louisiana) was about to replace Newt Gingrich as Speaker of the House until he resigned in disgrace when it was revealed that he admitted to had been involved in several adulterous affairs.
# Religious right Republican Ralph Reed, candidate for Lt. Gov. in Georgia. Under investigation for involvement in Abramoff, Kidan, DeLay Indian casino money laundering scandal.
# Republican Congressman, Bill Janklow, who has been elected by his Republican supporters for years either as Governor, Attorney General or Congressman. Janklow has a long series of charges against him, including a dozen speeding charges, the most recent of which involved driving some 70 miles over the speed limit (i.e. through a stop sign) and killing another motorist.
# John Roland, Connecticut's Republican governor was forced to resign and went to Federal prison for corruption.
# Republican Gov. Mitch Daniels under investigation for soliciting campaign donations in return for INDOT (Indiana Dept. of Transportation contracts).
# Former Republican Illinois House Leader Rep. Lee Daniels is under Federal investigation for misuse of state employees for political activity and state contract kickbacks.
# Republican Chairman of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, Kenneth Tomlinson, investigated for violating the Public Broadcasting Act, resigned after the results of the investigation were published.
# Republican Adam Taff, a 2004 congressional candidate from Kansas was indicted for campaign violations and wire fraud.
# Lawrence Novak, Vice Chair, state GOP, Arrested by FBI for drug money laundering.
# Vice President Dick Cheney's Chief of Staff Scooter Libby resigns after being indicted on felony charges of obstruction of justice, perjury and making false statements in the CIA leak investigation
# Jack Abramoff has been ordered to report to prison by June 29th, 2006. There are two separate prosecutions against Jack Abramoff.
The first is focused on Abramoff's defrauding of investors in his purchase, along with Adam Kidan, of SunCruz, a fleet of casino boats. That investigation is being handled by the U.S. Attorney's Office in Florida. Abramoff was indicted for his involvement in the SunCruz fraud case August 11th, 2005 and pled guilty January 4th, 2006 to two counts (Conspiracy to Defraud the United States and Wire Fraud). He, along with Kidan, was sentenced March 29th to five years, 10 months in prison. Abramoff's yet to be sentenced in the other case.
The other case relates to bribing public officials and defrauding his Indian clients - it's being led by Justice Department prosecutors and is proceeding in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia. Jack Abramoff pled guilty January 3rd, 2006 to three counts (Conspiracy to Defraud the United States, Mail Fraud, and Tax Evasion). A status conference is scheduled for June 6th.
# Tom DeLay, former GOP House Majority Leader already under indictment in Texas, suddenly resigned from Congress Tuesday under a swirling dark cloud of corruption speculation after two of his former senior aids copped pleas and a third may be about to follow suit.
# Senate Republican Majority Leader Bill Frist is under investigation for possible securities violations regarding his stock in the company his family founded.
# Republican Congressman Randall (Duke) Cunningham sentenced to eight years and four months in prison after pleading guilty to federal charges of accepting over two million dollars in bribes from a defense contractor while we were at war.
# Presidential Domestic Policy Advisor and self proclaimed Christian conservative Claude Allen arrested for shoplifting over $5,000 worth of items from Target stores.
# In August of 2005 Republican Gov. Bob Taft pleaded no contest to four criminal ethics charges for his failure to disclose golf outings paid for by lobbyists, as well as undisclosed gifts worth $5,800, he was fined $4,000 plus court costs.
# In September of 2005 Republican Ernie Fletcher fired 9 of his own staffers for a crony hiring scandal, all of whom he had recently pardoned. Among them was Richard Murgatroyd, Fletcher's deputy chief of staff.
# Department of Homeland Security Assistant Press Secretary Brian Doyle facing arrest on 23 charges related to soliciting sex from a 14 year-old minor in a police sting operation.
# Ed Buckham, former chief of staff to Tom DeLay and later Chairman of the lobbying firm Alexander Strategy Group, appeared in Tony Rudy's guilty plea as "Lobbyist B." According to the plea, Buckham helped in routing $50,000 in payments to Rudy's wife's consulting firm - the money was to bribe Rudy for his help defeating a bill on behalf of Jack Abramoff's client. Tony Rudy is another former staffer to Tom Delay, who has also plead guilty to charges in the Abramoff lobbyist scandal.
# John Colyandro was Executive Director of Tom DeLay's PAC Texans for a Republican Majority. He, along with Jim Ellis, was indicted for Money Laundering in 2004 alleging an illegal money swap with the Republican National State Elections Committee, an arm of the Republican National Committee. Colyandro also faces a charge for Unlawful Acceptance of a Contribution from a Corporation.
# Jim Ellis was Executive Director of DeLay's PAC Americans for a Republican Majority. He, along with John Colyandro, was indicted for Money Laundering in 2004 alleging an illegal money swap with the Republican National State Elections Committee, an arm of the Republican National Committee.
# Chuck McGee, the former Executive Director of the New Hampshire Republican State Committee, pled guilty July 28th, 2004 to one count: Conspiracy to engage in interstate telephone communications with the intent to annoy or harass. On March 11th, 2005, he was sentenced to 7 months in prison, which he began serving April 26th, 2005. He served his time and has been released.
# Rep. Bob Ney (R-OH) is being investigated for accepting bribes from Jack Abramoff and Michael Scanlon. He was named as a coconspirator ("Representative #1") in Abramoff's plea and ("Legislator #1") in Scanlon's plea and (Representative #1) in Tony Rudy's plea.
# Allen Raymond, president of GOP Marketplace, pled guilty June 30th, 2004 to one count: Conspiracy to engage in interstate telephone communications with the intent to annoy or harass. On February 8th, 2005, he was sentenced to 5 months in prison. He made a motion to reduce his sentence; on February 2nd, he was sentenced to 3 months in prison, even though the prosecution only asked for house arrest.
# Warren RoBold was a fundraiser for Tom DeLay's PACs (TRMPAC and ARMPAC) and was indicted in 2004 for taking illegal corporate money for TRMPAC - nine counts of Unlawful Acceptance of a Political Contribution from a Corporation. RoBold is charged with nine separate third-degree felonies, each of which carries a maximum sentence of 10 years in prison.
# Tony Rudy pled guilty March 31 to one count of Conspiracy. He was a former aide to Tom DeLay, a colleague of Jack Abramoff's and then a lobbyist at Alexander Strategy Group. He was named ("Staffer A") as a coconspirator in Abramoff's plea.
# David Safavian was indicted October 5th, 2005 for Obstruction of Proceedings before an Agency and Making False Statements. He is accused of lying to investigators about his dealings with Jack Abramoff while he was chief of staff for the General Services Administration. He went on to be the government's top procurement officer in the Office of Management and Budget until he had to step down because of the investigation.
# On November 21st, 2005, Michael Scanlon, Jack Abramoff's partner in the Indian fraud and bribery schemes, pled guilty to Conspiracy to Defraud the United States.
# James Tobin, the former New England Regional Political Director for the Republian National Committee, was found guilty December 15th, 2005 of two counts: Conspiracy to commit the commission of interstate telephone harassment and Aiding and abetting the commission of interstate telephone harassment. He was acquitted of a third count, Conspiracy against voters' rights.
# Neil Volz, a former aide to Bob Ney and member of Team Abramoff, was named ("Staffer B") as a coconspirator in Abramoff's plea.
# Republican George Ryan was the Governor of Illinois from 1999 until 2003. Ryan's term in office was marked by a scandal involving the illegal sale of government licenses, contracts and leases by state employees during his prior service as Secretary of State; in the wake of numerous convictions of former aides, he chose not to run for reelection in 2002. In December 2003 he was indicted on 18 federal racketeering, fraud and conspiracy charges. His trial got underway in September 2005.
# Bob Livingston (R-Louisiana) was about to replace Newt Gingrich as Speaker of the House until he resigned in disgrace when it was revealed that he admitted to had been involved in several adulterous affairs.
# Religious right Republican Ralph Reed, candidate for Lt. Gov. in Georgia. Under investigation for involvement in Abramoff, Kidan, DeLay Indian casino money laundering scandal.
# Republican Congressman, Bill Janklow, who has been elected by his Republican supporters for years either as Governor, Attorney General or Congressman. Janklow has a long series of charges against him, including a dozen speeding charges, the most recent of which involved driving some 70 miles over the speed limit (i.e. through a stop sign) and killing another motorist.
# John Roland, Connecticut's Republican governor was forced to resign and went to Federal prison for corruption.
# Republican Gov. Mitch Daniels under investigation for soliciting campaign donations in return for INDOT (Indiana Dept. of Transportation contracts).
# Former Republican Illinois House Leader Rep. Lee Daniels is under Federal investigation for misuse of state employees for political activity and state contract kickbacks.
# Republican Chairman of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, Kenneth Tomlinson, investigated for violating the Public Broadcasting Act, resigned after the results of the investigation were published.
# Republican Adam Taff, a 2004 congressional candidate from Kansas was indicted for campaign violations and wire fraud.
# Lawrence Novak, Vice Chair, state GOP, Arrested by FBI for drug money laundering.
Here is what I found on democrats.
"The government says FBI agents videotaped Louisiana Congressman William Jefferson taking $100,000 in cash from an informant and later found $90,000 in his home freezer." Borger did subsequently identify Jefferson as a Democrat.
Pelosi was found guilty September 2005 of federal election law violations, for operating two leadership political action committees (PACs) in order to circumvent contribution limits. She was also found guilty of exceeding the limits on amounts donors may legally give to PACs.
Fabrizi, a Democrat who took office after former Mayor Joseph Ganim was convicted of corruption in 2003, said he hopes to move forward and continue running Connecticut's largest city.
"The government says FBI agents videotaped Louisiana Congressman William Jefferson taking $100,000 in cash from an informant and later found $90,000 in his home freezer." Borger did subsequently identify Jefferson as a Democrat.
Pelosi was found guilty September 2005 of federal election law violations, for operating two leadership political action committees (PACs) in order to circumvent contribution limits. She was also found guilty of exceeding the limits on amounts donors may legally give to PACs.
Fabrizi, a Democrat who took office after former Mayor Joseph Ganim was convicted of corruption in 2003, said he hopes to move forward and continue running Connecticut's largest city.
shadow9d9: the party in power is the most corrupted, why bother spending money on folks who can't do anything? Go back and look when dems were in power and you can find plenty of corruption cases (Dan Rostenkowski ring a bell? Just a smidge of corruption in the Clinton administration? ABSCAM? Mario Biaggi? Mel Reynolds? Walter Tucker? Trafficant?). Who would you bribe - the party that at best can bring a fillibuster or the party that can make things happen because they have the votes?
Only a fool believes their party is somehow immune to the lure of money and power.
Only a fool believes their party is somehow immune to the lure of money and power.
I answered a challenge. He refuses to admit that 85% of the corruption right now is by Republicans... I am waiting for his big talk to actually be backed up.
"Has corruption occured? yes, but I think your "85%" stat is totally bogus,"
He is wrong. I proved it. He's got nothing but ignorance.
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Originally posted by: LEDominator
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Originally posted by: LEDominator
I'm not repeating things, I know them
Observation. Learn to use it instead of listening to other people.
I am, hence my not listening to you, lol. Has corruption occured? yes, but I think your "85%" stat is totally bogus, and that is aparent in how you avoided addressing it
You haven't been paying attention for the last 5 years. That is avoiding the point on your part. All the smiley faces in the world won't change that!
lol, you avoiding the point makes it me avoiding the point. ok... All I asked you to do was quantify your claim. It shouldn't be too hard. Yet you refuse to do so because you know that if you did it would come out roughly equal, which is something you can't bring yourself to see. Let me provide you some democrat examples, though it certainly hasn't garnered much media attention:
- Harry Reid is linked to Abramoff (he took the most money for a single "contribution")
- An independent counsel who investigated possible tax violations by former Housing and Urban Development Secretary Henry Cisneros charged that the Clinton administration thwarted his efforts to get to the truth.
- U.S. Rep. William Jefferson (D-La.) is under criminal investigation by the U.S. Justice Department for possible bribery in exchange for promoting business deals in Africa
- Federal prosecutors alleged in court documents that Ernest Newton, a former state Democrat Connecticut senator worked with a reputed mobster and his associate to try to stop police raids on businesses and advance their business interests
- Clarence Norman Jr., the longtime powerbroker of Brooklyn NY Democrats was found guilty of intentionally soliciting illegal campaign contributions.
- A top aide to Jim Black, the Democratic speaker of the state Legislature of North Carolina, resigned amid reports he had received payments from a company hoping for the lottery contract. The .State Board of Elections is investigating Black's campaign finances. The investigation comes after the group Democracy North Carolina said it found evidence that video-poker operators were funneling money through unsuspecting donors to Black's campaign.
- West Virginia.Logan County Clerk Glen Dale "Hound Dog" Adkins admitted to selling his vote for $500 in the 1996 Democratic Party primary, while Perry French Harvey Jr. pleaded guilty to conspiring to bribe voters in last year's Democratic contest
- Former Democat Gov. Donald Siegelman of Alabama was charged in a "widespread racketeering conspiracy" that includes accusations he took a bribe from former hospital executive Richard Scrushy for a key state appointment.
- Frank Ballance - a former Democrat Rep. from North Carolina was sentenced to four years in federal prison for conspiring to divert taxpayer money to his law firm and family through a charitable organization he helped start. Ballance, was a state senator before being elected to Congress in 2002, also agreed to repay $61,917 and to forfeit $203,000 in a bank escrow account in the name of the John A. Hyman Memorial Foundation.
- Five Democratic activists in Wisconsin accused of slashing the tires of vans rented by Republicans on Election Day 2004 are currently on trial
- Chuck Chvala, a Former Democrat Wisconsin Senate Majority Leader was sentenced to nine months in jail for felony misconduct in office and illegally funneling campaign contributions. Chvala had reached a plea deal with prosecutors earlier this year, admitting to charges that he directed a state employee to run a political campaign and used an independent expenditure group to funnel campaign contributions to a fellow Democrat.
- Brett Pfeffer, a former legislative director to Rep. William Jefferson, D-La., pleaded guilty to aiding and abetting bribery of a public official and conspiracy.
- Raymond Reggie, a New Orleans political Democratic consultant and fund-raiser who is Senator Kennedy's brother-in-law was sentenced to a year in prison yesterday after pleading guilty to bank fraud charges.
-Chuck Schumer - The FEC ruling, handed down in March, ordered Schumer?s 1998 senatorial campaign to pay a civil penalty of $130,000. The campaign was also ordered to return $120,455 in illegal contributions, bringing the total of fines and restitution to slightly more than a quarter-million dollars. The campaign paid the sum in April.
According to FEC records, only three cases involving federal candidates have resulted in higher fines than the one levied on Schumer?s campaign. No senatorial candidate has ever been so severely penalized.
- House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi helped secure $3 million last year for a nonprofit transportation-research organization whose president gave money to her political action committee as the group was paying for a European trip for one of her policy advisers. Transportation adviser Lara Levison?s nine-day, $4,475 trip to Spain and Germany last April to learn about hydrogen-fuel cells for buses was primarily paid for by WestStart-CALSTART. But just days before the trip, WestStart-CALSTART announced that Mrs. Pelosi had helped the nonprofit group secure $1 million from the Federal Transit Administration for a bus rapid-transit program. A month after the Levison trip, the group sent out a press release thanking her for a $2 million grant for a fuel-cell program.
- The finance director for Hillary Clinton?s 2000 U.S. Senate campaign was indicted today on federal charges of filing bogus financial reports with the Federal Election Commission.
Investigators allege that a ?wealthy individual? paid more than $1.1 million to underwrite the Clinton gala and that those payments were delivered through ?several corporate entities controlled by him.? The August 2000 fundraiser was billed as a ?Hollywood Tribute to William Jefferson Clinton,? though the funds raised went to his wife?s campaign kitty.
-More on Reid The Howard Hughes Corp. alone paid $300,000 to the tiny Washington consulting firm of son-in-law Steven Barringer to push a provision allowing the company to acquire 998 acres of federal land ripe for development in the exploding Las Vegas metropolitan area. Barringer is listed in federal lobbyist reports as one of Hughes? representatives on the measure that his father-in-law introduced. AND taking bribes for the casino industry in the form of free boxing matches
My point is that if you truly believe the Democrats are less corrupt I feel sorry for you because you're a sucker. Corruption is a two-way street and each side is mired in traffic.
I can go through and spam my list longer too
Just FYI btw things have yet to play out for libby (and yet the calling for the presumption of innocence seems to be lacking here). Abramoff worked both sides. Read Newsweek. I love how you tie him to the Republicans even though he worked both. Oh, and if you're going to limit it to 5 years, you may want to go back and look through some of your own cases. [Edit] responding to his second spam post
C above for my response. And, no I am not. If anything you proved you are an idiot for believing your party is flawless.
Originally posted by: LEDominator
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Originally posted by: LEDominator
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Originally posted by: LEDominator
I'm not repeating things, I know them
Observation. Learn to use it instead of listening to other people.
I am, hence my not listening to you, lol. Has corruption occured? yes, but I think your "85%" stat is totally bogus, and that is aparent in how you avoided addressing it
You haven't been paying attention for the last 5 years. That is avoiding the point on your part. All the smiley faces in the world won't change that!
lol, you avoiding the point makes it me avoiding the point. ok... All I asked you to do was quantify your claim. It shouldn't be too hard. Yet you refuse to do so because you know that if you did it would come out roughly equal, which is something you can't bring yourself to see. Let me provide you some democrat examples, though it certainly hasn't garnered much media attention:
- Harry Reid is linked to Abramoff (he took the most money for a single "contribution")
- An independent counsel who investigated possible tax violations by former Housing and Urban Development Secretary Henry Cisneros charged that the Clinton administration thwarted his efforts to get to the truth.
- U.S. Rep. William Jefferson (D-La.) is under criminal investigation by the U.S. Justice Department for possible bribery in exchange for promoting business deals in Africa
- Federal prosecutors alleged in court documents that Ernest Newton, a former state Democrat Connecticut senator worked with a reputed mobster and his associate to try to stop police raids on businesses and advance their business interests
- Clarence Norman Jr., the longtime powerbroker of Brooklyn NY Democrats was found guilty of intentionally soliciting illegal campaign contributions.
- A top aide to Jim Black, the Democratic speaker of the state Legislature of North Carolina, resigned amid reports he had received payments from a company hoping for the lottery contract. The .State Board of Elections is investigating Black's campaign finances. The investigation comes after the group Democracy North Carolina said it found evidence that video-poker operators were funneling money through unsuspecting donors to Black's campaign.
- West Virginia.Logan County Clerk Glen Dale "Hound Dog" Adkins admitted to selling his vote for $500 in the 1996 Democratic Party primary, while Perry French Harvey Jr. pleaded guilty to conspiring to bribe voters in last year's Democratic contest
- Former Democat Gov. Donald Siegelman of Alabama was charged in a "widespread racketeering conspiracy" that includes accusations he took a bribe from former hospital executive Richard Scrushy for a key state appointment.
- Frank Ballance - a former Democrat Rep. from North Carolina was sentenced to four years in federal prison for conspiring to divert taxpayer money to his law firm and family through a charitable organization he helped start. Ballance, was a state senator before being elected to Congress in 2002, also agreed to repay $61,917 and to forfeit $203,000 in a bank escrow account in the name of the John A. Hyman Memorial Foundation.
- Five Democratic activists in Wisconsin accused of slashing the tires of vans rented by Republicans on Election Day 2004 are currently on trial
- Chuck Chvala, a Former Democrat Wisconsin Senate Majority Leader was sentenced to nine months in jail for felony misconduct in office and illegally funneling campaign contributions. Chvala had reached a plea deal with prosecutors earlier this year, admitting to charges that he directed a state employee to run a political campaign and used an independent expenditure group to funnel campaign contributions to a fellow Democrat.
- Brett Pfeffer, a former legislative director to Rep. William Jefferson, D-La., pleaded guilty to aiding and abetting bribery of a public official and conspiracy.
- Raymond Reggie, a New Orleans political Democratic consultant and fund-raiser who is Senator Kennedy's brother-in-law was sentenced to a year in prison yesterday after pleading guilty to bank fraud charges.
-Chuck Schumer - The FEC ruling, handed down in March, ordered Schumer?s 1998 senatorial campaign to pay a civil penalty of $130,000. The campaign was also ordered to return $120,455 in illegal contributions, bringing the total of fines and restitution to slightly more than a quarter-million dollars. The campaign paid the sum in April.
According to FEC records, only three cases involving federal candidates have resulted in higher fines than the one levied on Schumer?s campaign. No senatorial candidate has ever been so severely penalized.
- House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi helped secure $3 million last year for a nonprofit transportation-research organization whose president gave money to her political action committee as the group was paying for a European trip for one of her policy advisers. Transportation adviser Lara Levison?s nine-day, $4,475 trip to Spain and Germany last April to learn about hydrogen-fuel cells for buses was primarily paid for by WestStart-CALSTART. But just days before the trip, WestStart-CALSTART announced that Mrs. Pelosi had helped the nonprofit group secure $1 million from the Federal Transit Administration for a bus rapid-transit program. A month after the Levison trip, the group sent out a press release thanking her for a $2 million grant for a fuel-cell program.
- The finance director for Hillary Clinton?s 2000 U.S. Senate campaign was indicted today on federal charges of filing bogus financial reports with the Federal Election Commission.
Investigators allege that a ?wealthy individual? paid more than $1.1 million to underwrite the Clinton gala and that those payments were delivered through ?several corporate entities controlled by him.? The August 2000 fundraiser was billed as a ?Hollywood Tribute to William Jefferson Clinton,? though the funds raised went to his wife?s campaign kitty.
-More on Reid The Howard Hughes Corp. alone paid $300,000 to the tiny Washington consulting firm of son-in-law Steven Barringer to push a provision allowing the company to acquire 998 acres of federal land ripe for development in the exploding Las Vegas metropolitan area. Barringer is listed in federal lobbyist reports as one of Hughes? representatives on the measure that his father-in-law introduced. AND taking bribes for the casino industry in the form of free boxing matches
My point is that if you truly believe the Democrats are less corrupt I feel sorry for you because you're a sucker. Corruption is a two-way street and each side is mired in traffic.
I can go through and spam my list longer too
[Edit] responding to his second spam post
C above for my response. And, no I am not. If anything you proved you are an idiot for believing your party is flawless.
YOU NEED TO LEARN HOW TO READ!
"so you'd need a list that takes place in the last 5 years as well."
Half of your stuff is before 2001, and hence irrelevant to this! This discussion is about the corruption that has taken place since Bush took office. Yes, technically I said 8 years, but I was referring to Bush's 8 years which hasn't finished yet. My list only includes 2001+. Would you like me to dig up things from 1996+ like you did? LEARN TO READ. Did you even read my post before responding!?
And JESUS ****** CHRIST. I am not a Democrat you numbwit. This is the second thread where you ASSume garbage to attack me. The SECOND TIME. You just MADE UP out of thin air that I am a democrat!
Let's go over your list and remove the ones before 2001 and only include ones in high level posititons in the Republican party/congress like I had asked:
- Harry Reid is linked to Abramoff (he took the most money for a single "contribution")
- U.S. Rep. William Jefferson (D-La.) is under criminal investigation by the U.S. Justice Department for possible bribery in exchange for promoting business deals in Africa
- Federal prosecutors alleged in court documents that Ernest Newton, a former state Democrat Connecticut senator worked with a reputed mobster and his associate to try to stop police raids on businesses and advance their business interests
- Clarence Norman Jr., the longtime powerbroker of Brooklyn NY Democrats was found guilty of intentionally soliciting illegal campaign contributions.
- A top aide to Jim Black, the Democratic speaker of the state Legislature of North Carolina, resigned amid reports he had received payments from a company hoping for the lottery contract. The .State Board of Elections is investigating Black's campaign finances. The investigation comes after the group Democracy North Carolina said it found evidence that video-poker operators were funneling money through unsuspecting donors to Black's campaign.
- Former Democat Gov. Donald Siegelman of Alabama was charged in a "widespread racketeering conspiracy" that includes accusations he took a bribe from former hospital executive Richard Scrushy for a key state appointment.
- Frank Ballance - a former Democrat Rep. from North Carolina was sentenced to four years in federal prison for conspiring to divert taxpayer money to his law firm and family through a charitable organization he helped start. Ballance, was a state senator before being elected to Congress in 2002, also agreed to repay $61,917 and to forfeit $203,000 in a bank escrow account in the name of the John A. Hyman Memorial Foundation.
- Chuck Chvala, a Former Democrat Wisconsin Senate Majority Leader was sentenced to nine months in jail for felony misconduct in office and illegally funneling campaign contributions. Chvala had reached a plea deal with prosecutors earlier this year, admitting to charges that he directed a state employee to run a political campaign and used an independent expenditure group to funnel campaign contributions to a fellow Democrat.
- Brett Pfeffer, a former legislative director to Rep. William Jefferson, D-La., pleaded guilty to aiding and abetting bribery of a public official and conspiracy.
- Raymond Reggie, a New Orleans political Democratic consultant and fund-raiser who is Senator Kennedy's brother-in-law was sentenced to a year in prison yesterday after pleading guilty to bank fraud charges.
- House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi helped secure $3 million last year for a nonprofit transportation-research organization whose president gave money to her political action committee as the group was paying for a European trip for one of her policy advisers. Transportation adviser Lara Levison?s nine-day, $4,475 trip to Spain and Germany last April to learn about hydrogen-fuel cells for buses was primarily paid for by WestStart-CALSTART. But just days before the trip, WestStart-CALSTART announced that Mrs. Pelosi had helped the nonprofit group secure $1 million from the Federal Transit Administration for a bus rapid-transit program. A month after the Levison trip, the group sent out a press release thanking her for a $2 million grant for a fuel-cell program.
And the "- Five Democratic activists in Wisconsin accused of slashing the tires of vans rented by Republicans on Election Day 2004 are currently on trial" is irrelevant.. we don't count pedestrians under the government position count unless you want to dig up ANY AND EVERY criminal and their political affiliation.
- Harry Reid is linked to Abramoff (he took the most money for a single "contribution")
- U.S. Rep. William Jefferson (D-La.) is under criminal investigation by the U.S. Justice Department for possible bribery in exchange for promoting business deals in Africa
- Federal prosecutors alleged in court documents that Ernest Newton, a former state Democrat Connecticut senator worked with a reputed mobster and his associate to try to stop police raids on businesses and advance their business interests
- Clarence Norman Jr., the longtime powerbroker of Brooklyn NY Democrats was found guilty of intentionally soliciting illegal campaign contributions.
- A top aide to Jim Black, the Democratic speaker of the state Legislature of North Carolina, resigned amid reports he had received payments from a company hoping for the lottery contract. The .State Board of Elections is investigating Black's campaign finances. The investigation comes after the group Democracy North Carolina said it found evidence that video-poker operators were funneling money through unsuspecting donors to Black's campaign.
- Former Democat Gov. Donald Siegelman of Alabama was charged in a "widespread racketeering conspiracy" that includes accusations he took a bribe from former hospital executive Richard Scrushy for a key state appointment.
- Frank Ballance - a former Democrat Rep. from North Carolina was sentenced to four years in federal prison for conspiring to divert taxpayer money to his law firm and family through a charitable organization he helped start. Ballance, was a state senator before being elected to Congress in 2002, also agreed to repay $61,917 and to forfeit $203,000 in a bank escrow account in the name of the John A. Hyman Memorial Foundation.
- Chuck Chvala, a Former Democrat Wisconsin Senate Majority Leader was sentenced to nine months in jail for felony misconduct in office and illegally funneling campaign contributions. Chvala had reached a plea deal with prosecutors earlier this year, admitting to charges that he directed a state employee to run a political campaign and used an independent expenditure group to funnel campaign contributions to a fellow Democrat.
- Brett Pfeffer, a former legislative director to Rep. William Jefferson, D-La., pleaded guilty to aiding and abetting bribery of a public official and conspiracy.
- Raymond Reggie, a New Orleans political Democratic consultant and fund-raiser who is Senator Kennedy's brother-in-law was sentenced to a year in prison yesterday after pleading guilty to bank fraud charges.
- House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi helped secure $3 million last year for a nonprofit transportation-research organization whose president gave money to her political action committee as the group was paying for a European trip for one of her policy advisers. Transportation adviser Lara Levison?s nine-day, $4,475 trip to Spain and Germany last April to learn about hydrogen-fuel cells for buses was primarily paid for by WestStart-CALSTART. But just days before the trip, WestStart-CALSTART announced that Mrs. Pelosi had helped the nonprofit group secure $1 million from the Federal Transit Administration for a bus rapid-transit program. A month after the Levison trip, the group sent out a press release thanking her for a $2 million grant for a fuel-cell program.
And the "- Five Democratic activists in Wisconsin accused of slashing the tires of vans rented by Republicans on Election Day 2004 are currently on trial" is irrelevant.. we don't count pedestrians under the government position count unless you want to dig up ANY AND EVERY criminal and their political affiliation.
Deleting the ones from my list not in high level posititons in the Republican party/congress, I count 30 Republicans to 11 Democrats on your list.. which means 73% Republicans... Which is pretty damn close to my 85% estimate.
Of course, if you are going to try to add in some random pedestrians who happen to belong to trhe party slashing tires as corrupt politicians, the number could be skewed your way : ).
Of course, if you are going to try to add in some random pedestrians who happen to belong to trhe party slashing tires as corrupt politicians, the number could be skewed your way : ).
You make me laugh. You realise all that stuff has been in the news recently right? It just took this long for some of the decisions to come down. But, if you want more there is the Kennedy cover-up for drunk driving, etc. It isn't hard to find, just do a google search. And, your list goes far before 2001. You know, the whole 1999/98 See, the Big one and 9 mean it was BEFORE the big 2 and 0.
I don't care if you are or aren't; if it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck... its a duck. The only thing more amusing than your BS is your feeble attempt to try and slam me. I knew there was a reason I stopped responding to you in the other thread. I now remember why that was. You simply are a fool who doesn't get the big picture.
Funny how you weed out mine yet keep yours. Oh wait, I forgot, you HAVE to do that to keep reality in your favor. If you really believe those guys were just pedestrians... sad. They even said they got orders from higher up, and the dem leadership moved to try and block it. Oh, and for the record, every politician, no matter democrat or Republican is a Pedestrian. It means they use their feet. If you meant civilian... nope, that label still fits too. Guess what you meant to say is That Corruption Doesn't Count, FOUL!!!
I deleted 4-5 from mine as well. You could look up your quoted response and match it against the current first post to see the ones weeded out.
if you don't see the difference between high government officials/high ranked politicans and 5 idiots who happen to be registered as democrat, well, I think you are beyond help. Please explain how slashing tires is corruption.... What about murderers in prison? Do you plan to look up the stats on how many are republicans/democrats to try to link them to this corruption discussion too? Give me a break. It just shows how far you must reach to try to make the field seem level.
You walked away from the other thread because I caught you assuming too. It is a fact that the Republicans are more corrupt right now and I proved it. If that makes me a Democrat in your eyes, it just shows how pathetic your attempts are. "If you aren't with us, you are against us" seems to be the motto in your camp.
I even looked up Democrats who were corrupt and posted them too...I hold them equally accountable. The point is, right now they aren't as bad as the Republicans. And when Democrats are back in Office, I will continue to hold them accountable.. so I guess then you'll say I am a Republican...
It is pathetic and sad that many Republicans think that if you hold them accountable for being corrupt, you must be a democrat... what is wrong with simply wanting NON CORRUPT POLITICIANS!?
The point is that you are taking out what you choose. You are pretty much set in your view of 85%. There is 0 chance of me convincing you because you will rationalise them away in your head. As I said before, if you honestly believe the Republicans are somehow more corrupt than the Democrats, you are living in a delusional world. The reality is that corruption is rampant in both parties and it always has been.
No, the point is that you are unwilling to admit that republicans are the huge majority of corrupt politicans. I provide proof. You call me a democrat. I weed out the ones you and I provided that didn't fit the criteria. You accuse me of only weeding out yours. Both times you simply assumed what you wanted to. Both times you were wrong. Instead of saying, "yeah, sorry, I didn't see that you adjusted your list too", you say, "I won't be able to convince you otherwise!" Of course, this is in spite of the fact that the evidence shows contrary to YOUR opinion.
I have no agenda because I have no political party. I hate corruption in politics. I hate ALL corruption in politics. I am not blinded by party loyalty. You seem to be. Yet you accuse me of the one being partisan. I prove you wrong with evidence, you attack me with false assumptions. That is your game... You should seriously consider a pullback in making asusmptions. You cannot assume facts not in evidence.
Feel free to point out more democrats... My 85% number was just a number I pulled out of the air that represented the fact that a majority of corruption is occuring in the republican party right now... 73% wasn't too far off. I based by number on observation, NOT assumptions, like you tend to do. Unless you are willing to evidence to the contrary, you cannot simply make up what isn't there to support yourself or attack your "opponent."
When people do not hold politicans up to extremely high standards, everyone loses. This isn't a game, but to you it is.
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