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Karl Rove Lays Out Details On How To Beat Hillary Or Obama

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,987
1
0
Story here.

Sorry, Karl, we're going to need more. Certainly Billary's billions and billions of new spending are an easy attack point, and Obama isn't far behind, but that isn't going to be enough. People want "FREE" everything, and the allure of "FREE" Health Care alone may be too much...
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
91
if any of the current republicans cared about what Rove thinks, they wouldn't be destroying the support that Bush/Rove built up in hispanic communities.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
2
0
Very banal stuff, go on about terrorism as a big thing. But, he's smart, so is he right? Has the public still not reached the end of its rope and tired of terrorism talk and the defeatest left?
 

SViscusi

Golden Member
Apr 12, 2000
1,200
8
81
What is Karl Rove the architect of exactly?

He lost the house after 12 years, he lost the senate after 6. The majority of State legislatures and Governorships are now controlled by Democrats. The GOP is in chaos with the delicate balance between major factions crumbling.

The only think Karl Rove did was smear his candidate to the white house. And there have been far better at that then him.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,681
1,894
126
He lost the house after 12 years, he lost the senate after 6. The majority of State legislatures and Governorships are now controlled by Democrats. The GOP is in chaos with the delicate balance between major factions crumbling.
One would argue that he maintained Republican domination of both the Senate and the White House for at least eight years, and kept the Democrats on the defensive by defining the political battleground of numerous elections.

That is hardly a small feat...one may question his means and motives, but you cannot deny the effectiveness of his political maneuvering.

For the last eight years, Democrats have been complaining about the Rove political machine...now his shenanigans are no big deal?

Absolute power corrupts absolutely, and hence the crumbling of the NeoCon era...the Democrats will now have their chance to run the country into the ground...rinse, wash, repeat.
 

Mxylplyx

Diamond Member
Mar 21, 2007
4,197
100
106
Originally posted by: SViscusi
What is Karl Rove the architect of exactly?

He lost the house after 12 years, he lost the senate after 6. The majority of State legislatures and Governorships are now controlled by Democrats. The GOP is in chaos with the delicate balance between major factions crumbling.

The only think Karl Rove did was smear his candidate to the white house. And there have been far better at that then him.
He got Bush re-elected in 04. I'd say he pulled off a modern day miracle, with a little help from John Kerry.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
After reading that piece twice I'm still baffled why pople (mostly Dems) refer to Rove as a political genius?

It likes a rehash of already well-known talking points.

I can only guess that when your opponents produce candidates like Gore and Kerry it makes you look good by comparison.

Fern
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
73,685
25,760
136
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Very banal stuff, go on about terrorism as a big thing. But, he's smart, so is he right? Has the public still not reached the end of its rope and tired of terrorism talk and the defeatest left?
I'm pretty sure that talk isn't going to fly anymore. It barely worked with an incumbant president during a war against a crappy opponent. They tried the terror talk in 2006 and got massacred. I would be amazed if they were stupid enough to base yet another campaign around it.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,060
5,144
126
Originally posted by: SViscusi
What is Karl Rove the architect of exactly?

He lost the house after 12 years, he lost the senate after 6. The majority of State legislatures and Governorships are now controlled by Democrats. The GOP is in chaos with the delicate balance between major factions crumbling.

The only think Karl Rove did was smear his candidate to the white house. And there have been far better at that then him.
Rove is the architect of GOP's destruction. :D
Well, at the very least, his win at all cost and fvck the principles tactics, along with his boy Bush made GOP a damaged brand for a long time. I say let him continue with his "architecture" :)
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
2
0
That is what Karl Rove says he will do in somewhat of a high road moment for him. In reality he will go dirtier than before in a futile effort to compete. Rove already mis-read the public mood in 06, and he appears to have totally lost in in 08. Besides old Karl is peeing his pants, he knows he may end in jail for abuses regarding the outing of a CIA agent
and crapola over the justice department where political manipulation of the justice department is against the law.

After the election of 11/4/2008, Karl Rove is going to be unemployable.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
62,364
14,616
136
One would argue that he maintained Republican domination of both the Senate and the White House for at least eight years, and kept the Democrats on the defensive by defining the political battleground of numerous elections.
That's only 6 years, please...

And he did it with the help of the biggest political windfall since Pearl Harbor- 9/11.

Reasonable men not blinded by ideological idiocy could have parlayed that into the permanent majority that repubs were touting just a few years ago. But that's not what happened...

They got greedy, and stupid, and drunk with power, and Rove was right in the thick of it.

Now he's just whistling in the dark. Whoever the Dems nominate, they'll have to really screw the pooch to lose to any of the Repubs. Even Hillary.
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,987
1
0
Come on moonbats. Rove was a proven winner. Look how desperately you went after him. When Valerie Flame came calling, you thought you had him. :laugh:

I'm not saying Rove is a genius, but he is a proven winner in the political arena. With the nationwide anti-Republican sentiment in 2004, I don't believe anyone could have done the job.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
2
0
Originally posted by: Pabster
Come on moonbats. Rove was a proven winner. Look how desperately you went after him. When Valerie Flame came calling, you thought you had him. :laugh:

I'm not saying Rove is a genius, but he is a proven winner in the political arena. With the nationwide anti-Republican sentiment in 2004, I don't believe anyone could have done the job.
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Things had not really turned to shit for GWB&co in 11/04. And Kerry did little to establish himself by running as a smarter GWB on Iraq. In the end many people voted for the devil they knew rather than the devil they did not know. And I sure don't think Rove had much to do with it although the swiftboating of Kerry really hurt.

But right after the election in 04, GWB tried to cash in his political capital by jiggering social security. And found out right quick that no one trusted him because GWB was the established devil they knew.

Now that the republicans wasted an entire year lock step supporting GWB, its now too late and GWB&co. will be the boat anchor the sinks the GOP in 08. And Karl Rove now adds a few tons to the weight of that boat anchor.
 

SViscusi

Golden Member
Apr 12, 2000
1,200
8
81
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
One would argue that he maintained Republican domination of both the Senate and the White House for at least eight years, and kept the Democrats on the defensive by defining the political battleground of numerous elections.
That's only 6 years, please...

And he did it with the help of the biggest political windfall since Pearl Harbor- 9/11.

Reasonable men not blinded by ideological idiocy could have parlayed that into the permanent majority that repubs were touting just a few years ago. But that's not what happened...
To add to that, Rove thought his biggest political move, the one that would make the GOP become a permanent majority, was privatizing Social Security. It was the first think Bush did out of the gate in '05 and was a massive failure.

 

CallMeJoe

Diamond Member
Jul 30, 2004
6,938
5
81
You can credit Rove for the McCain smears that got the Shrub the Republican nomination in 2000, but Ralph Nader and the Greens were the real architects of GWB's first term election.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
62,364
14,616
136
From Pabster-

Come on moonbats. Rove was a proven winner. Look how desperately you went after him. When Valerie Flame came calling, you thought you had him.

I'm not saying Rove is a genius, but he is a proven winner in the political arena. With the nationwide anti-Republican sentiment in 2004, I don't believe anyone could have done the job.
He escaped indictiment in the Plame affair only by the skin of his teeth, and would probably be out on bail if Dubya hadn't commuted Libby's sentence...

He may yet go down for it, unless he's on Bush's blanket pardon list, which I suspect will be pretty large...

And there wasn't a great deal of anti-repub sentiment until 2006- repubs could still beat the terrar drum in 2004, not to mention swiftboating Kerry rather effectively... while misrepresenting his "global consent" remark... they were also riding high on the faux recovery of homeloanership and immense deficit spending...

It's different today, and will likely be even more different come election-time. Terrar won't sell, and neither will the ongoing occupation of Iraq. The economy is headed for the skids, and the only way to save the bankers is with strong inflation... not to mention that the current difficulties are largely the result of repub greed and arrogance... policy verging on outright theft. And there's Gitmo, wiretapping, black prisons and obscene corporate profiteering... along with a lot of other stuff...

Here's hoping that Giuliani wins Florida- repubs can head into their convention in a state of total disarray...
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
2
0
The other thing hurting Rove is that he does not play well with others. Historically anyone who has hired him as a campaign adviser has found he can go out of control and rouge. GHB hired and fired him twice after Rove was caught in the act of torpedoing other campaign aids and making unauthorized leaks to the press.

And I suspect any possible President McCain might make sure he dies a rather unpleasant death. And of course, he made GWB before he undid him, leaving him both radioactive and also at the top of a rather long GOP enemies list.

Nor will I be surprised to see him the target of numerous civil laws suits even if GWB pardons Rove thus maybe getting him out of criminal liability.

I very much doubt history will treat Karl Rove kindly. And we don't even know a 1/4 of it yet.
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,987
1
0
Originally posted by: SViscusi
To add to that, Rove thought his biggest political move, the one that would make the GOP become a permanent majority, was privatizing Social Security. It was the first think Bush did out of the gate in '05 and was a massive failure.
Damn that GWB for trying to save Social Security! :roll:

I'm not saying the GWB plan was the one to use, but at least he put something on the table. Democrats killed it. And they'll have to deal with it eventually, they only put off the inevitable.

 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
2
0
As usual Pabster is delusional in saying---Damn that GWB for trying to save Social Security!

I'm not saying the GWB plan was the one to use, but at least he put something on the table. Democrats killed it. And they'll have to deal with it eventually, they only put off the inevitable.
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Pabster forgets that 2005 was the era of the Republican rubber stamp congress where democrats couldn't kill anything. It was basically ordinary Americans writing to their congressman that killed the GWB monkey around with social security plan. And it was the republicans that killed the plan formally. Social security was simply too important to be left in the hands of a bumbler.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Very banal stuff, go on about terrorism as a big thing. But, he's smart, so is he right? Has the public still not reached the end of its rope and tired of terrorism talk and the defeatest left?
I don't think the public has become tired of that sort of talk, and while Rove's grand strategy here might seem banal and/or stupid, it's not like he had a genius approach the last few times around. But the thing he realizes better than most in politics is that people are basically pretty stupid if you give them the chance to be. You don't need a world class argument as long as you can get people to turn their brains off.
 

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