Kansas Teacher Fired for Conservative Views Gets Job Back Amid Media Firestorm

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
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Let's keep this one on topic, eh?

Pretty outrageous actions by the school if you ask me.

Here is the update. Original story below.

Kansas Teacher With Conservative Views Gets Job Back
Tuesday, June 23, 2009
By Joshua Rhett Miller


Tim Latham
A high school teacher in Kansas who claimed his contract was not renewed due to his conservative political views has been reinstated.

Tim Latham, 44, who was told that his school-affiliated Web site was "too patriotic," will return this fall to the 2,000-student Lawrence High School in Lawrence, Kan., where he'll continue teaching American history and government for a second consecutive year. Since the contract renewal became official late last week, Latham, a teaching veteran of 20 years, said he's received countless well-wishes from students and teachers alike.

"My cell phone just went off again," Latham told FOXNews.com on Tuesday. "I have received well over 1,000 e-mails, comments on my Facebook page, personal letters and phone calls, not only from all over the country, but from all over the world. I even had a guy who wrote me from China, saying he could see this happening in China, but not here."

Latham, who was criticized by a student for not airing President Obama's inaugural address during class, filed a grievance with his school district earlier this month after he was told in April that his contract would not be renewed.

The married father of three had claimed school officials violated his contract by not conducting proper reviews ? four 20-minute in-class evaluations throughout the year ? and said school administrators were looking for a way to get rid of him due to his personal politics.

But Latham was informed last Thursday by District Superintendent Randy Weseman that there were "inconsistencies in the evaluation process" and that his contract would be renewed for 2009-10. Latham said he was not surprised.

"I thought that if they followed the letter of the contract and if they looked at all the evidence, there was no other result that could happen," he said. "It had to happen."

Weseman confirmed to FOXNews.com that Latham will be back next year. He said administrators erred by not conducting enough in-class evaluations.

"To make a long story short, they didn't do what they were supposed to," Weseman said. "Obviously there are implications to procedures not being followed."

Latham conducted himself in a "respectful and dignified" manner throughout the process, Weseman said, adding that the "injustice" claimed by Latham had been confirmed.

During a meeting last September with Assistant Principal Jan Gentry, Latham claims Gentry mentioned his school-affiliated Web site, which she called "too patriotic." The site had links to the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, the Air Force, the U.S. Army and other military-and history-related sites.

He claimed the critiques took a personal turn in October, when class lessons began focusing on the presidential race between Obama and John McCain. One unidentified student has complained to Gentry that Latham had been too critical of Obama.

"I had been called into [Gentry's office] and was told I was picking on Obama in class," Latham said earlier this month. "But I didn't cover anything else that wasn't already covered by anybody else in the news."

Latham also said that Gentry asked him about a "McCain-Palin" bumper sticker on his car.

"She said, 'I don't know how you could support that woman,'" Latham said. "That was the beginning of what was going on. They were trying to find a reason to get rid of me."

Latham said a condition of his reinstatement would be that Gentry would not conduct his evaluations any longer, Weseman said. Gentry could not be reached for comment Tuesday.

Chloe Mercer, who graduated Lawrence High School last month, said Latham's class was her favorite and said he was fair despite his decision not to show Obama's inauguration in class.

"He chose not to show it, but he printed out Obama's speech and we read it and discussed what we felt was good about it," Mercer told FOXNews.com earlier this month. "[Latham] was fair. He listened to all sides of every issue. He actually made print-outs of every candidate and how they felt on certain hot-button issues."
-------------------------------------------

Well, it's more than obvious now why he was fired. Here is the original story on it which made it pretty obvious:

Kansas Teacher Claims Conservative Views Led to Loss of Job
Friday, June 12, 2009
By Joshua Rhett Miller

Tim Latham, who has spent the last 19 years teaching students American history and government, spent the past school year at a high school in Lawrence, Kan. ? and it appears his first year at the school will be his last.

Latham claims it has nothing to do with his abilities as a teacher and everything to do with his conservative politics.

Latham ? who was criticized for not airing President Obama's inaugural address during an American history class ? says he first realized during a meeting last September with Assistant Principal Jan Gentry that his personal political views weren't making the grade with the rest of the faculty at the 2,000-student Lawrence High School.

The 44-year-old teacher filed a grievance earlier this month with his district after his contract was not renewed in April. He argues the district didn't follow the proper process.

"It's gross misconduct," he said. "[The district] jumped straight to non-renewal."

Several calls placed to Gentry, Principal Steve Nilhas and District Superintendent Randy Weseman were not returned. Kansas National Education Association Director Bruce Lindskog could not be reached for comment.

David Cunningham, director of human resources for the school district, declined to discuss Latham's allegations in detail.

"All I can say is we have procedures in place to make decisions on employment," Cunningham told FOXNews.com. "All of our procedures were followed correctly."

Latham claims school officials violated his contract by not conducting proper reviews ? four 20-minute in-class evaluations throughout the year ? and says they were looking for a way to get rid of him due to his personal politics.

During Latham's brief meeting with Gentry, he claims Gentry told him his school-affiliated Web site was "too patriotic." The site has links to the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, the Air Force, the U.S. Army and other military-and history-related sites.

"I mean, I teach American history and government," Latham explained. "We had been in school not even a month."

He claims the critiques took a personal turn in October, when class lessons began focusing on the presidential race between Obama and John McCain. One student, whom Latham declined to identify, complained to Gentry that he had been too critical of Obama.

"I had been called into [Gentry's office] and was told I was picking on Obama in class," Latham said. "But I didn't cover anything else that wasn't already covered by anybody else in the news."

Latham says he supported McCain because of the Arizona senator's military service and lengthy political experience. He admitted to offering students critical viewpoints of Obama due to his lack of experience compared to McCain.

"When you try to show two sides of an individual, sometimes people don't like that," he said. "They want to hear all of the sunshine, but none of the rain. I aligned more with [McCain's] values than I did with Obama, but I treated Obama with fairness."

Latham also said that Gentry asked him about a "McCain-Palin" bumper sticker on his car.

"She said, 'I don't know how you could support that woman,'" Latham said. "That was the beginning of what was going on. They were trying to find a reason to get rid of me."

The married father of three said the experience hasn?t affected his desire to teach. And support from students and a local conservative group have inspired him to fight for his job.

Chloe Mercer, who graduated Lawrence High School last month, said Latham's class was her favorite and said he was fair despite his decision not to show Obama's inauguration in class.

"He chose not to show it, but he printed out Obama's speech and we read it and discussed what we felt was good about it," Mercer told FOXNews.com. "[Latham] was fair. He listened to all sides of every issue. He actually made print-outs of every candidate and how they felt on certain hot-button issues."

Latham defended his decision not to show Obama's inauguration because he'd opted not to show any similar events.

"I've never shown an inauguration," he said. "I never showed any of Bush's; I wouldn't have shown McCain's. I was not showing any bias towards Obama ... I didn't intend to interrupt the class."

Asked if she felt Latham brought his personal politics into the classroom, Mercer replied, "Not really. He was very good about looking at both candidates. Sometimes his conservative side would show, but my opinion along with anyone else's was always valued."

Mercer, a self-described liberal, said she hopes school officials revisit their decision. She's one of many current and former Lawrence High students supporting Latham on a Facebook page.

"It's really disappointing because he's a really good teacher," she said. "It doesn't seem fair. Why would they let a good teacher go?"

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,526060,00.html

This is pretty outrageous. What are your thoughts?


Before responding see my moderator comments a few posts down.
Hayabusa Rider AnandTech Senior Moderator
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
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Originally posted by: Amused
This is pretty outrageous. What are your thoughts?

Was he fired for his views or is he claiming he was fired for his views? If he was fired for his views that's absurd. However if he is just using this to cover his ass it's bullshit.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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This is an official moderator post, so take it that way.

The greatest shortcoming of this forum is that when someone posts most anything it quickly devolves into poo.

This is an attempt to have something which members may comment on, but I DO NOT want one word of commentary about the past threads and bringing people into this. Let's start over and try to be adults. If someone decides to be clever, you have been warned.

Be adults.

Thanks,
Hayabusa Rider, AnandTech Senior Moderator
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
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Originally posted by: Craig234
That the info can be read if you find a real source and not a Fox News propagandist.

Poisoning the wells is not a valid debate.
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,057
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91
Originally posted by: Amused
.
.
Latham, who was criticized by a student for not airing President Obama's inaugural address during class, filed a grievance with his school district earlier this month after he was told in April that his contract would not be renewed.
.
.
This is pretty outrageous. What are your thoughts?

As a teacher of American history and government, I think Latham was remiss in not airing an historical event like the inauguration speech of ANY President, even a criminal turd like George W. Bush. The speech, itself, is not an opinion about American history and government; it IS American history and government. The best way to teach it is to include baseline factual events and data in the cirriculum when they're available, rather than talk ABOUT second hand narrations of them.

That said, Latham is entitled to his opinions, and he's entitled to challenge his dismissal. The end point of the story is that the school district heard his case, reversed their position and re-hired him so "the system" worked, so to speak.

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Craig234

That the info can be read if you find a real source and not a Fox News propagandist.
You try Googling it?

Here you go.

The links found by searching google for "Tim Latham" fired furthers the case that this is mostly a right wingnut cause. I don't fault them for it, but it leaves this whole story as no more than a local tempest in a teapot.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
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Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Craig234
That the info can be read if you find a real source and not a Fox News propagandist.

Poisoning the wells is not a valid debate.

Yes, it is, when done carefully.

I'm against the abuse of the argument of attacking the source rather than the merit.

However, my position is carefullly considered on this. I've been involved in message forums for a long time, and seen how overwhelmed 'discussion' can be with the effectively unlimited supply of propaganda and lies from the 'machine' that puts them out for that purpose; how responding to each one in detail can take about a thousand hours a day.

Because the supply of propaganda and lies that can be easily referenced is so massive, you pick and choose which to provide more substantive rebuttals to, but when a source consistently earns the reputation of being dishonest, in 100 stories, a 1000, 10,000, at some point you can say, 'they're not worth listening to'.

We have posters here who do that the wrong way, blindly objecting to sources simply for being on 'the other side' without regard for the accuracy of the poster's statements generally or in the specific piece in question - yet they'll see hundreds of pieces disproven from sources they 'agree with' and are ready for the next.

My comment is a very specific decision that because of the impracticality of dealing with the potential volume, that the better approach is to make a case against the source, and to then not waste a lot of time on the source, to quickly say they've lost the right to get much time on a response, when they show themselves to be such a dishonest propaganda outlet.

I've debunked this sort of thing many, many times, and sometimes in great depth. When I've attacked a right-wing site, I've repeatedly backed it up with 'randome samplings' of their stories and time-consuming commentary to justify my attack on them - but having done so, I dismiss a site that has earned that with its consistent dishonest propaganda, rather than pretending they're a new voice deserving a time-consuimg 'fresh hearing'.

That's not the real situation we're dealing with, we're dealing with a well-funded machine that can generate far more propaganda than people can respond to in detail.

If this is a legitimate story, there should be a legitimate report of it.

And for what it's worth I did some checking on the article - filled with propaganda - and the author, before I posted in this case, and I was intentional in summarily dismissing it.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: Amused
.
.
Latham, who was criticized by a student for not airing President Obama's inaugural address during class, filed a grievance with his school district earlier this month after he was told in April that his contract would not be renewed.
.
.
This is pretty outrageous. What are your thoughts?

As a teacher of American history and government, I think Latham was remiss in not airing an historical event like the innauguration speech of ANY President, even a criminal turd like George W. Bush. The speech, itself, is not an opinion about American history and government; it IS American history and government. The best way to teach it is to include baseline factual events and data in the cirriculum when they're available, rather than talk ABOUT second hand narrations of them.

That said, Latham is entitled to his opinions, and he's entitled to challenge his dismissal. The end point of the story is that the school district heard his case, reversed their position and re-hired him so "the system" worked, so to speak.

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Craig234

That the info can be read if you find a real source and not a Fox News propagandist.
You try Googling it?

Here you go.

The links found by searching google for "Tim Latham" fired furthers the case that this is mostly a right wingnut cause. I don't fault them for it, but it leaves this whole story as no more than a local tempest in a teapot.
Doesn't mean it's possible it didn't happen as reported. What do you think if it was the case.

 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,035
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Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: Amused
.
.
Latham, who was criticized by a student for not airing President Obama's inaugural address during class, filed a grievance with his school district earlier this month after he was told in April that his contract would not be renewed.
.
.
This is pretty outrageous. What are your thoughts?

As a teacher of American history and government, I think Latham was remiss in not airing an historical event like the innauguration speech of ANY President, even a criminal turd like George W. Bush. The speech, itself, is not an opinion about American history and government; it IS American history and government. The best way to teach it is to include baseline factual events and data in the cirriculum when they're available, rather than talk ABOUT second hand narrations of them.

That said, Latham is entitled to his opinions, and he's entitled to challenge his dismissal. The end point of the story is that the school district heard his case, reversed their position and re-hired him so "the system" worked, so to speak.

He has never aired an inageral of ANY president, but DID go over the full text of the speeches with his students. Which, if you think about it, is better than sitting them in front of an idiot box for multiple classes.

As always, the content of the speech is what matters, not the presentation.

At any rate, it's obvious the bias existed and was the cause of his dismissal. EVERYONE, right, left, or libertarian should take up his cause. Unless, of course, you believe people should be let go for beliefs that are not in line with yours... then you better hope and pray your beliefs are the ones that become dominant...
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,035
18,331
146
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Craig234
That the info can be read if you find a real source and not a Fox News propagandist.

Poisoning the wells is not a valid debate.

Yes, it is, when done carefully.

I'm against the abuse of the argument of attacking the source rather than the merit.

However, my position is carefullly considered on this. I've been involved in message forums for a long time, and seen how overwhelmed 'discussion' can be with the effectively unlimited supply of propaganda and lies from the 'machine' that puts them out for that purpose; how responding to each one in detail can take about a thousand hours a day.

Because the supply of propaganda and lies that can be easily referenced is so massive, you pick and choose which to provide more substantive rebuttals to, but when a source consistently earns the reputation of being dishonest, in 100 stories, a 1000, 10,000, at some point you can say, 'they're not worth listening to'.

We have posters here who do that the wrong way, blindly objecting to sources simply for being on 'the other side' without regard for the accuracy of the poster's statements generally or in the specific piece in question - yet they'll see hundreds of pieces disproven from sources they 'agree with' and are ready for the next.

My comment is a very specific decision that because of the impracticality of dealing with the potential volume, that the better approach is to make a case against the source, and to then not waste a lot of time on the source, to quickly say they've lost the right to get much time on a response, when they show themselves to be such a dishonest propaganda outlet.

I've debunked this sort of thing many, many times, and sometimes in great depth. When I've attacked a right-wing site, I've repeatedly backed it up with 'randome samplings' of their stories and time-consuming commentary to justify my attack on them - but having done so, I dismiss a site that has earned that with its consistent dishonest propaganda, rather than pretending they're a new voice deserving a time-consuimg 'fresh hearing'.

That's not the real situation we're dealing with, we're dealing with a well-funded machine that can generate far more propaganda than people can respond to in detail.

If this is a legitimate story, there should be a legitimate report of it.

And for what it's worth I did some checking on the article - filled with propaganda - and the author, before I posted in this case, and I was intentional in summarily dismissing it.

All that blathering to fully admit you have no valid argument, and a vain effort to support an invlid argument.

If you have a counter, offer it up. Poisoning the wells is not a valid counter point.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
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Still Harvey, it's unclear just what motivated this. While I may not agree with an individual it is a bit suspicious when one has done something consistently but then be tossed when that person is dealing with a President of the opposite political persuasion. You could see this happening in another place when the last administration was in power, so it's not impossible for it to be the same here.

The real problem with analyzing this situation is that there appear to be no disinterested parties reporting on it. He, the school, just about everyone has a dog in the fight. It's hard for me to make a judgment because of that alone.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
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Originally posted by: Amused
EVERYONE, right, left, or libertarian should take up his cause. Unless, of course, you believe people should be let go for beliefs that are not in line with yours... then you better hope and pray your beliefs are the ones that become dominant...
Would you feel the same if this guy was a Holocaust Denier?
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Amused
EVERYONE, right, left, or libertarian should take up his cause. Unless, of course, you believe people should be let go for beliefs that are not in line with yours... then you better hope and pray your beliefs are the ones that become dominant...
Would you feel the same if this guy was a Holocaust Denier?

Apples =/= Oranges

Opinions =/= Facts
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,613
6,169
126
Ugh, discussed to death already and with nothing new since his rehiring I don't see how a "discussion" will accomplish anything. Let it go.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,035
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146
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Amused
EVERYONE, right, left, or libertarian should take up his cause. Unless, of course, you believe people should be let go for beliefs that are not in line with yours... then you better hope and pray your beliefs are the ones that become dominant...
Would you feel the same if this guy was a Holocaust Denier?

So now you're comparing conservatives to holocaust deniers? How about I compare liberals to soviet purgers?

Going to ridiculous extremes does not trump me.

It's obvious from the story that while his views were known, he went out of his way to show all sides of the issues. Even a professed liberal student agreed.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
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Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Amused
EVERYONE, right, left, or libertarian should take up his cause. Unless, of course, you believe people should be let go for beliefs that are not in line with yours... then you better hope and pray your beliefs are the ones that become dominant...
Would you feel the same if this guy was a Holocaust Denier?

Apples =/= Oranges

Opinions =/= Facts

I know it's different, I'm just asking Amused about his views about people having opinions differing from the norm being allowed to express those opinions, especially in the classroom.
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
9
0
For those that want to know what happened it was the school district did not ben back down or backtrack. They saw that they did not follow his contract to a T. Lawyers told them if it goes to court he will have a case not because of why he was let go but because they did not do 4 20minute evulations. As such he was given another 1 year contract. If it went to court the most likely outcome would be he gets another 1 year contract and back pay.

What can/probable will happen next year they will follow the contract to a T and then let him go.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
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0
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Amused
EVERYONE, right, left, or libertarian should take up his cause. Unless, of course, you believe people should be let go for beliefs that are not in line with yours... then you better hope and pray your beliefs are the ones that become dominant...
Would you feel the same if this guy was a Holocaust Denier?

So now you're comparing conservatives to holocaust deniers? How about I compare liberals to soviet purgers?

Going to ridiculous extremes does not trump me.

It's obvious from the story that while his views were known, he went out of his way to show all sides of the issues. Even a professed liberal student agreed.
No I'm not comparing the two. Read my previous post.

 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,035
18,331
146
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: Amused
.
.
Latham, who was criticized by a student for not airing President Obama's inaugural address during class, filed a grievance with his school district earlier this month after he was told in April that his contract would not be renewed.
.
.
This is pretty outrageous. What are your thoughts?

As a teacher of American history and government, I think Latham was remiss in not airing an historical event like the innauguration speech of ANY President, even a criminal turd like George W. Bush. The speech, itself, is not an opinion about American history and government; it IS American history and government. The best way to teach it is to include baseline factual events and data in the cirriculum when they're available, rather than talk ABOUT second hand narrations of them.

That said, Latham is entitled to his opinions, and he's entitled to challenge his dismissal. The end point of the story is that the school district heard his case, reversed their position and re-hired him so "the system" worked, so to speak.

FYI, Lawrence, Kansas is a pretty notorious area for the radical religious right, and this isn't so much the system 'working' as it's like 'KKK teacher reinstated in KKK city'.

I'm not saying they don't have a right to their views or opposing the local culture in this case, but rather just noting that sometimes 'the system' has a terrible bias.

Another straw man.

From the first thread:

As a Lawrence local, I have to point out that this is unarguably the most liberal town in Kansas.

And if you google, you'll find out he's right.

Seriously, craig, do you have anything to offer?
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,267
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Okey doke, back into moderator mode.

Remember my post not long ago?

Do we understand what the topic is?

Ask yourselves this "What do I want from P&N? Do I want a place where we can have discussions or a place where we can vilify the other posters?

The complaints about this forum from others is that it's a poison well of hatred and discontent. Unfortunately it's true.

Perhaps it's time for those who think they are adults to act that way.

Now please, back on topic.

If that doesn't work, then remember that if I have to lock this thread because someone decided to make it so I had to, there will be a thread you will post, and I'm not inclined to act in any other way. I'm neither a Lib or Conservative, Dem or Rep.

We're moderators and it is our goal to help others express their views regardless if you agree with them or not. If it's outrageous, we'll act, but we don't want to be parents either.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Hi, remember me?

I'm the guy who is going to go take my son swimming.

When I return I will check out this thread and if we've gone down the road of personal attacks then I'm locking the thread, and no one is exempt from sanction up to and including vacations. That's you Craig, Amused, whomever.

If you think it won't happen, then test me.

Hayabusa Rider- a not very "amused" Sr. Moderator.