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Kamala Harris proposes up to $6,000 credit for families

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Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,427
1,806
126
Is love to hear the argument as well of why as a nation we should be incentivizing policy to abandon large, powerful, talented, heavily developed economic engines like New York City to scatter people into LCOL places like Nebraska.

Across the globe its been migration into the cities as the economic growth and development trend.
We shouldn’t, and I don’t think that is the argument. Cities are and will remain the centers of economic activity, but they are not inherently conservative or liberal.

Cities are reverting back to a medieval hierarchy of wealthy lords and the servant class.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
998
126
Trump cuts taxes for working class Americans, the left thinks this is bad. Kamala Harris wants to give more tax credits for continuing to pop out kids, the left cheers. Sounds about right.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,096
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Trump cuts taxes for working class Americans, the left thinks this is bad. Kamala Harris wants to give more tax credits for continuing to pop out kids, the left cheers. Sounds about right.
Trump’s plan raises taxes for working Americans in the long term, lol.

That’s what’s so funny and sad about you idiots. You think you’re in on the con but really you’re the mark.
 
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Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,121
13,062
136
Trump cuts taxes for working class Americans, the left thinks this is bad. Kamala Harris wants to give more tax credits for continuing to pop out kids, the left cheers. Sounds about right.
The GOP tax cuts do almost nothing for the working class. Dems don't object to that aspect of it, anyway. And thanks for the "pop out more kids" trope, too.

https://www.npr.org/2017/12/19/571754894/charts-see-how-much-of-gop-tax-cuts-will-go-to-the-middle-class

It's almost pure trickle down. You know trickle down economics is a lie, don't you? That tax cuts have never paid for themselves?
 

Bitek

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2001
9,012
2,897
136
Trump cuts taxes for working class Americans, the left thinks this is bad. Kamala Harris wants to give more tax credits for continuing to pop out kids, the left cheers. Sounds about right.
So you are against tax cuts now, or just against real tax cuts for people that actually need it and will actually spend it?

The stated intention of the TCJA was to create jobs and revenue, as task for which it was poorly designed and has failed on its delivery.

Time to try something that actually helps.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
998
126
So you are against tax cuts now, or just against real tax cuts for people that actually need it and will actually spend it?

The stated intention of the TCJA was to create jobs and revenue, as task for which it was poorly designed and has failed on its delivery.

Time to try something that actually helps.

How is it decided who "needs" tax cuts? By having more and more kids that one may not be able to support? While I admit the answer for reducing poverty and lifting the lower class is complex and I don't think anyone has a magic fix, that doesn't mean bad policy can't be criticized, and this is obviously bad policy.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,121
13,062
136
How is it decided who "needs" tax cuts? By having more and more kids that one may not be able to support? While I admit the answer for reducing poverty and lifting the lower class is complex and I don't think anyone has a magic fix, that doesn't mean bad policy can't be criticized, and this is obviously bad policy.
People making millions obviously don't need tax cuts. They're doing great w/o them. Well, in case you hadn't noticed.
 
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Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
27,119
1,895
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How is it decided who "needs" tax cuts? By having more and more kids that one may not be able to support? While I admit the answer for reducing poverty and lifting the lower class is complex and I don't think anyone has a magic fix, that doesn't mean bad policy can't be criticized, and this is obviously bad policy.
if you want people to stop popping out kids, you should make them wealthier. so even you should be in favor of tax credits for the poors.

now, as to why do lower income people need tax cuts more than higher ones? the answer should be pretty obvious, but let's put some numbers to it:

compare the spending and income of the bottom and top 20%
https://www.businessinsider.com/how-americans-at-each-income-level-spend-their-money-2018-2
(with some nice visualizations - https://www.businessinsider.com/how-americans-at-each-income-level-spend-their-money-2018-2)

the 20th% income is around $25,000 according to https://www.statista.com/statistics/203183/percentage-distribution-of-household-income-in-the-us/
the 80th% income is above $100,000
(the median income according to this site is the 50-75k range, which is correct)

since retirement savings fall under the "personal insurance and pensions" listing, we'll deduct that as savings

listed as 20th% vs 80th%
income earned: 25,000 vs 100,000+
savings: 0.6k vs 17.7k
money spent: 23.9k vs 82.3k
spending as a % of income: 95.6% vs < 82.3%

and that's using the TOP of the bottom 20%, and the BOTTOM of the top 20%.

so yes, when you can give a person on the bottom even $1000 back, that makes a huge difference. $1k for someone making 100K+ is nice, but not hugely changing.
 
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Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,874
4,203
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This would certainly benefit more people who could use it the most. The 0.1% can afford it.
 
Nov 8, 2012
17,635
3,410
126
if you want people to stop popping out kids, you should make them wealthier. so even you should be in favor of tax credits for the poors.
Correlation != Causation. Just because we hand out some money doesn't mean they stop popping out kids. That doesn't make them educated. That doesn't get them a better job either.

I would argue that procreation correlates with IQ level - not wealth.

Someone that isn't retarded understands the costs and implications of having a child.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,121
13,062
136
Correlation != Causation. Just because we hand out some money doesn't mean they stop popping out kids. That doesn't make them educated. That doesn't get them a better job either.

I would argue that procreation correlates with IQ level - not wealth.

Someone that isn't retarded understands the costs and implications of having a child.
So you're arguing that blacks are intellectually inferior?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,096
18,861
136
I think that we should be giving child tax credits because, simply put, our birth rate is very low, sub-replacement level. I suspect one significant reason is that raising a child has simply become much more expensive than it used to be thanks to Baumol’s cost disease. If you want people to have kids they need to be able to afford to have kids.
 
Nov 8, 2012
17,635
3,410
126
I think that we should be giving child tax credits because, simply put, our birth rate is very low, sub-replacement level. I suspect one significant reason is that raising a child has simply become much more expensive than it used to be thanks to Baumol’s cost disease. If you want people to have kids they need to be able to afford to have kids.
I agree in full, yet the people making the least are coincidentally the ones having the most kids. Are you saying that we need to give more to the evil middle and upper middle class?
 

Bitek

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2001
9,012
2,897
136
How is it decided who "needs" tax cuts? By having more and more kids that one may not be able to support? While I admit the answer for reducing poverty and lifting the lower class is complex and I don't think anyone has a magic fix, that doesn't mean bad policy can't be criticized, and this is obviously bad policy.
Median us income is $59k. Her plan gives tax credits up to $6k.

So this is helping a majority of the people not just "poverty and lower class."

Major tax cut for working families. Unless you don't think regular people could use money.

Otoh the $2.5T welfare for the wealthy has been mostly used to pay down a corporate debt and buy back stock. So far it's looking like utter failure and fiscal disaster.
 

Bitek

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2001
9,012
2,897
136
I think that we should be giving child tax credits because, simply put, our birth rate is very low, sub-replacement level. I suspect one significant reason is that raising a child has simply become much more expensive than it used to be thanks to Baumol’s cost disease. If you want people to have kids they need to be able to afford to have kids.
It's either we produce children ourselves or we let in lots of immigrants.

We know what countries they will be coming from, so you'd think this would be a slam dunk for right wing nationalists.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,096
18,861
136
I agree in full, yet the people making the least are coincidentally the ones having the most kids. Are you saying that we need to give more to the evil middle and upper middle class?
Sure, I mean since anti poverty programs often adjust for family size we are doing this in a small way for the poor already. I would absolutely extend it to the middle class. That’s what Harris does, in fact.
 

Ken g6

Programming Moderator, Elite Member
Moderator
Dec 11, 1999
15,188
2,168
55
Not having read every post in this thread, @UglyCasanova , you left out where the money is supposed to come from. I found another article:

With midterm elections 2½ weeks away and the 2020 presidential race around the corner, prominent Democrats are embracing an ambitious idea: Repeal and replace the $1.5 trillion Republican tax plan.

The proposals would get rid of the tax cuts and, in turn, funnel that money into government-guaranteed cash for low- and middle-income households.
So it's sort of paid for. Except that Trump didn't pay for his tax cuts in the first place.

Here's another idea: Remove the means tests on food stamps (SNAP). It costs a lot less than the basic income subsidy above. But if you want to pay for it, a national sales tax on soda and candy would be a good start.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,121
13,062
136
You really need to invest in a jump to conclusions mat.
Heh. Blacks & Hispanics are poorer in general than white Americans & generally have more children. You argue that's an issue of intelligence rather than other factors, basically that if they were smarter they'd have fewer children.

Which you manage to say isn't racist at all.
 

Bitek

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2001
9,012
2,897
136
Correlation != Causation. Just because we hand out some money doesn't mean they stop popping out kids. That doesn't make them educated. That doesn't get them a better job either.

I would argue that procreation correlates with IQ level - not wealth.

Someone that isn't retarded understands the costs and implications of having a child.
You could always look it up.



Overall vs economy


Strong correlations with economic security, esp in families/countries where there is a premium on I spending per child for education and child care.

However, the decline in fertility rates reverse above a high income level when families are very financially secure and can afford more high cost children.

https://qz.com/1125805/the-reason-the-richest-women-in-the-us-are-the-ones-having-the-most-kids/



Ergo, it's the middle class who gets squeeze the most.

They don't have access to some of the social programs or have the free time to have more children since both parents are likely working, however they are not making so much money that they can afford the high cost of more children so they devote the limited resources they have on a small number children.
 

Lanyap

Elite Member
Dec 23, 2000
6,786
602
126
I think that we should be giving child tax credits because, simply put, our birth rate is very low, sub-replacement level. I suspect one significant reason is that raising a child has simply become much more expensive than it used to be thanks to Baumol’s cost disease. If you want people to have kids they need to be able to afford to have kids.

Yep. Just read this the other day.

The Bay Area is so expensive that employees at Apple, Uber, Google, and other tech giants are putting off having kids — and it's a sign of a much larger trend
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bay-area-expensive-employees-apple-170200852.html
  • The San Francisco Bay Area is getting so expensive that more than half of its tech employees, from Amazon to Apple, say the increased cost of living has caused them to delay starting a family, according to a survey by the app Blind.
  • Despite earning six-figure salaries, tech employees in the Bay Area can barely afford a place to live, let alone start a family.
  • Delaying having kids is a nationwide trend — at $230,000, the average cost of raising a child is at an all-time high and people are weighing their finances when it comes to having kids more than ever before.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
25,065
9,939
136
Trump cuts taxes for working class Americans, the left thinks this is bad. Kamala Harris wants to give more tax credits for continuing to pop out kids, the left cheers. Sounds about right.
Your lying has turned into standup comedy. You have new career potential
https://www.newsweek.com/republican-tax-cuts-trump-wage-increases-879800

BREAKING NEWS. Your God has just turned you into a liar. You did say Trump cut taxes for the working class, right? Well then why this? Geez you are a dumbass
https://www.axios.com/trump-looking-tax-cut-ahead-of-midterms-9b4244c3-dca9-4e5d-b62e-c4aa4b59fe61.html
 
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