- Mar 25, 2001
- 19,275
- 1,361
- 126
I definitely see slashing taxes is fiscally irresponsible when we already live way outside our means, I’ve never argued otherwise. To pretend our national debtload doesn’t effect you is foolish.
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,415
- 14,305
- 136
So a few things...
Without going into how the federal debt affects the average person, I need to ask, if the federal debt is out of control and the US is headed for certain bankruptcy, then how is it that the Treasury can keep selling off a seemingly infinite number of bonds at historically high prices/low yields? To hear the talk here, you'd think investors would steer clear of such a risky investment, but yet in the real world, real investors with real money believe that US govt debt is the safest investment in the world.
Second, how much do all of you pay for your health insurance? If you don't know, or if you think it's just what they withhold from your paychecks, then go take a look at your latest W-2, box 12DD. That's what your employer paid for your health insurance. Now add up all those deductions from paychecks, plus that box 12DD, and that's how much YOU paid for health insurance last year, before any deductibles or co-pays, etc. If you've never done this math before, prepare yourself for a shock.
And third, if we were to adopt some single-payer "medicare-for-all" system, you should realize that you would no longer be paying that above amount. Sure, your taxes would go up, but that's why it isn't actually free. But at the same time, when people freak out about that "medicare for all is going to $40 trillion over 10 years," I think you should know that we're already paying more than that.
Without going into how the federal debt affects the average person, I need to ask, if the federal debt is out of control and the US is headed for certain bankruptcy, then how is it that the Treasury can keep selling off a seemingly infinite number of bonds at historically high prices/low yields? To hear the talk here, you'd think investors would steer clear of such a risky investment, but yet in the real world, real investors with real money believe that US govt debt is the safest investment in the world.
Second, how much do all of you pay for your health insurance? If you don't know, or if you think it's just what they withhold from your paychecks, then go take a look at your latest W-2, box 12DD. That's what your employer paid for your health insurance. Now add up all those deductions from paychecks, plus that box 12DD, and that's how much YOU paid for health insurance last year, before any deductibles or co-pays, etc. If you've never done this math before, prepare yourself for a shock.
And third, if we were to adopt some single-payer "medicare-for-all" system, you should realize that you would no longer be paying that above amount. Sure, your taxes would go up, but that's why it isn't actually free. But at the same time, when people freak out about that "medicare for all is going to $40 trillion over 10 years," I think you should know that we're already paying more than that.
Last edited:
- Mar 25, 2001
- 19,275
- 1,361
- 126
But the thing is there’s a way out of my insurance. There’s competition for my insurance. There's ways to try new things. If we go all in on Medicare for all, that’s it. Buckle up and hope it works. And even more pressure to keep up constant population growth. We don’t need another dot gov Ponzi scheme to handcuff ourselves to. The potential to bankrupt the country is too great.
nickqt
Diamond Member
- Jan 15, 2015
- 7,538
- 7,672
- 136
Still unable to state how the debt has ever affected you?
Also, medicare for all doesn't preclude you from getting private insurance. Also, it's pretty hard for a country that has the power of FIAT CURRENCY to go bankrupt, unless it chooses to not pay its bills, which this country does from time to time, because idiocy.
Yes because, as folks like you are only too quick too point out, America is incapable of accomplishing what so many other countries have been able to do in providing relatively affordable health care to their entire populations.
It's a shame that you don't believe in your country and your fellow Americans. Sad.
Your country, at least upon occasion, used to be able to do/accomplish some decent shit. Don't see why it can't again.
- Mar 25, 2001
- 19,275
- 1,361
- 126
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,415
- 14,305
- 136
Not much competition when it's take whatever my employer offers or tough shit. And please quit using the Ponzi straw man. Insurance is not a ponzi scheme.
- Mar 25, 2001
- 19,275
- 1,361
- 126
Take whatever my employer offers or negotiate the difference in extra pay to purchase my own plan if I want. Or forgo the insurance and go on a spouses. Or whatever I decide to do. Bottom line is I have choices I can make if I choose to do so.
blankslate
Diamond Member
- Jun 16, 2008
- 8,591
- 474
- 126
If we could also use IQ tests as a way to help choose who could run for President (and maybe all federal offiices) I would take that deal.
Because then Trump would never have been a candidate and perhaps the same goes for Bush 43....
_____
nickqt
Diamond Member
- Jan 15, 2015
- 7,538
- 7,672
- 136
Lol, ok. How is Venezuela any what remotely similar, in any semblance of reality, to the US, or the US economy?
Man, you keep forgetting to answer the initial question I asked before movin' dem goalposts, amirite?
sdifox
No Lifer
- Sep 30, 2005
- 94,909
- 15,068
- 126
Zee Germans started working on it in 1883... Do you even understand what insurance is and how it works? Your precious competition is costing you several times more than universal healthcare elsewhere, and with worse results. Granted the results have been getting better, but still not worth the cost.
Why is someone further left than you politically teaching you about value for money?
- Mar 25, 2001
- 19,275
- 1,361
- 126
What was the initial question, how it effects me? I’ve already answered that in post 145.
Bitek
Lifer
- Aug 2, 2001
- 10,647
- 5,220
- 136
He can't answer these questions, so he keeps skipping over them and tossing out Venezuela smoke bombs.
To be fair, how do you answer? All the data clearly shows how inefficient or system is. The only reason to keep it is to protect the vested interests profiting on the waste.
- Mar 25, 2001
- 19,275
- 1,361
- 126
A fun thought experiment is to switch the costs of the US and European systems in your head and imagine what conservatives would be arguing then.
It’s rare to see a case where we have more evidence that the systems employed in other countries are superior than in the case of health care. For conservatives though, it means accepting that the liberals were right. Apparently they would rather die, haha.
It’s rare to see a case where we have more evidence that the systems employed in other countries are superior than in the case of health care. For conservatives though, it means accepting that the liberals were right. Apparently they would rather die, haha.
sdifox
No Lifer
- Sep 30, 2005
- 94,909
- 15,068
- 126
Go read oecd report.
http://www.oecd.org/health/health-expenditure.htm
The Russian Empire put a system in place in 1912. You are actually a fucking century behind Russia!
Last edited:
- Mar 25, 2001
- 19,275
- 1,361
- 126
sdifox
No Lifer
- Sep 30, 2005
- 94,909
- 15,068
- 126
In 2017 USA spend 10k per capita on healthcare, rest of OECD average 4K. You don't think your current system needs fixing? Where is your evidence your competition is keeping cost down?
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjABegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw1quhfToOk1Rf3GYAEn_I4x
feralkid
Lifer
- Jan 28, 2002
- 16,464
- 4,532
- 136
- Mar 25, 2001
- 19,275
- 1,361
- 126
Out current system definitely needs fixing no doubt. Why do you think competition is the problem though?
Prices are opaque and not easily made more transparent, demand is effectively infinite and inelastic, patients are generally unable to discern relative quality or the necessity of procedures, etc., etc.
Meghan54
Lifer
- Oct 18, 2009
- 11,527
- 5,044
- 136
So far, I've not seen one iota of any indication you've got competition for your health ins. dollar. Switching between your own employer-based ins. and your wife's isn't competition. That's just taking what one employer is offering over another......neither made any effort to entice you to buy X or Y insurance.
Same can be said for any private ins. on the market. There is no competition. Any ins. co. ever advertise its rates, compare them to what you already have and offer the same coverage cheaper? Didn't think so.
There is competition for auto ins., though. Maybe that's what you were thinking of....because there sure isn't a damned bit of health ins. competition anywhere.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 9K
-
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 7K
-
Facebook
Twitter