Do i need to buy the oil when I buy the filter or is that only after you clean it for the fist time?
k&n air filter question
- Thread starter miri
- Start date
anyone looking to buy a filter like this to ehance performance.....
if your car has an air intake available, buy that instead.
the filter makes very little difference.. intakes work great however!
if your car has an air intake available, buy that instead.
the filter makes very little difference.. intakes work great however!
StageLeft
No Lifer
- Sep 29, 2000
- 70,150
- 5
- 0
I've not tried one, but I'd be surprised if it offers even a .5% increase in horsepower over an OEM filter.
One has to wonder, if they offer so much air flow, how are they in turn limiting the amount of filth of an OEM filter? Surely K&N has less research bucks than the manufacturer of your car.
The answer is that they aren't.
It's simple physics, people. If it flows more air, it also flows more dirt, surface area being equal.
If you want performance and don't care about engine longevity, get the K&N. If you do, stay OEM.
GasX
Lifer
- Feb 8, 2001
- 29,033
- 6
- 81
Well, Car manufacturers don't tune for max performance. They tend towards the sedate and driveable. After market intakes are designed to increase air flow. In addition to the modest performance gain (very modest
), you end up with more of a growl - not for your average soccer mom...I don't think there is such a thing as a drop in high performance filter...
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
- Jul 3, 2003
- 74,586
- 986
- 126
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
- Jul 3, 2003
- 74,586
- 986
- 126
I had a cone shaped K&N on my '94 Mustang, removed the silencer inside the fender, installed headers, X-pipe and mufflers. All that together made a big difference but just replacing the filter will probably only get you more noise.
On an older car you are really wasting your money though. You spend $35 for the filter and another $5-10 for a can of spray oil and cleaner. You would need to change a traditional paper filter 6-7 times before you would break even. Even if you change filters every 15k miles thats 90,000 miles before you break even.
On an older car you are really wasting your money though. You spend $35 for the filter and another $5-10 for a can of spray oil and cleaner. You would need to change a traditional paper filter 6-7 times before you would break even. Even if you change filters every 15k miles thats 90,000 miles before you break even.
The issue is with over oiling. There should only be a very thin film of oil. Most n00b's soak it in oil, which ends up getting sucked through and coating the MAF.
NutBucket
Lifer
- Aug 30, 2000
- 27,155
- 635
- 126
A better cone filter is made by APEXi. It flows as well as K&N but filters much better as well. I can't recall where I saw those test. Hopefully OS will see this thread and provide a link. The question for me is, can I get it to fit where my K&N is.....
Eh...I have disagree with you on that. This is a much more complicated question than just surface area. This is one of those areas where the materials used make a huge difference. The OEM paper filters may not be as effecient as they could be because they're made up of essentially a random configuration of fibers. If you could arrange the material into a perfect grid and keep the spacing small enough (any foreign material is orders of magnitude larger than gas molecules so it shouldn't be THAT hard) you can increase the flow rate and still effectively filter. I'm not familiar with the specifics of how K&N filters are made, but if they do something in this same manner then it could work.
K&N are basically cotton gauze sandwiched between a metal mesh. You can see holes in it if you hold it up to a light - it's the oil that is the important part, as that is what is trapping the particles. The amount of performance gain will vary, and generally speaking will be minor unless you do a full cold-air intake mod (e.g. pipe with heatshield or hose with cannister). Even then, success depends on the efficiency of the original configuration. They do come pre-oiled, but it wouldn't hurt to have some on hand. They do let more dirt in than the paper, but that is what your oil filter and oil changes are for, as long as you are not, for example, offroading in a dusty environment. If you expect dusty conditions, you should skip the K&N, or at the least get a prefilter sock. Somewhat reduces the point of having a K&N, but should help keep more grit out. If you are really paranoid, you can get the blackstone labs oil test kit (find the link from bobistheoilguy.com) and see whether your oil has too much silicon in it - or better yet, do a before K&N test, and then do an after K&N test.
Yeah, I know it's much more complicated than that. But the surface area of the fibers is included in there, so the material does indeed matter. I was just being general. I was just going on common sense coupled with real-world analysis. It very well could be that the users are cleaning their filters too much. K&N's efficiency increases with a little dirt buildup. But users of K&Ns typically find more dirt in their oil when they run oil analysis. They just aren't good for keeping everything out of your engine, if thats what you're interested in. They probably are a good tradeoff between filtration and maximum airflow, though.
Hell, you could put a HEPA certified filter(mmmm.... 0.3 micron filtration..) on your engine if you wanted to, but they run several hundred dollars for ones big enough to flow as much as even a small(say 1.6L) engine would need.
It sure would be an interesting project, though. You would eliminate any wear-causing particles entering through the intake. That could make a huge difference in engine life.
You frequent BITOG too?
Yeah from what I've read, a K&N style filter does let more dirt through, your oil filter may "catch" it, however, used oil analysis has shown an increase in Silicon (dirt) on cars that used K&N versus paper. If you want your engine to last as long as possible and be as clean as pissible, then stick with regular filters. If you are concerned about airflow, get a stock filter with a lot of pleats in it; the more pleats the more airflow.
Remember that your air filter is one of the first lines of defense as far as keeping your engine internals clean.
Oh, and GM has issued a service buletin to deny warranty claims on vehicles that used K&N style filters, because often, the user will have over-oiled the element, causing the MAF to go out.
ALso, people tend to service the K&N too often, and incorectly. The dirtier the filter is the better it filters.
It'd be interesting to see how the oil analysis compares between a K&N and an OEM, in terms of just how much worse the K&N is. I hope they're not too bad though, as I run them in both my GTP and Firebird.
I don't drive anywhere but paved roads, so there really shouldn't be too much dirt coming in.TRENDING THREADS
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