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K, explain this to me please.

J

jswajsberg

Junior Member
A 430W Antec PSU came with my case, which has 12V1: 16A, and 12V2: 16A (32A on the 12V, no?)--(oh it's the NSK6500 case if anyone's wondering).

Now I have a X1900 All-in-Wonder videocard, which recommends I need at least a 450W psu with !!28 amps!! on the 12v rail. I figured though, after reading, since it's pretty rare to find a single 28amp 12v rail, and since that value is adjusted for peak load conditions, AND since a 20-watt difference between my PSU and the recommended shouldn't be a big deal, my shirking wouldn't have made a difference.

But I guess not, because graphically intensive settings on Company of Heroes and BF:2142 cause incessant flickering, random reboots, games crashing to desktops etc. And I'm quite certain it's the PSU, because there's no graphical anomalies, and I reinstalled the game several times over after consulting game forums: and these resets mostly occur during heavy fighting,

Anyway, I ordered the OCZ GameXstream 700watt, which, if it doesn't solve the problem, I'll go ape.

But what the hell. HOW DO I KNOW FOR CERTAIN IF MY PSU IS ADEQUATE FOR THE 12V RAIL NEEDS OF MY VIDEOCARD?

Thank you.
 
Your problem is that you dont have total 32A because you cant simply do 16A + 16A - your combined 12v line has about 25A(I dont rememer exactly). And X1900AIW will eat less than 16A but with rest of your hardware its too much for this PSU - other parts also use 12v line and their combined usage exeeded limit of your PSU. Your PSU may also provide you less than 430W.
 
Originally posted by: jswajsberg
But what the hell. HOW DO I KNOW FOR CERTAIN IF MY PSU IS ADEQUATE FOR THE 12V RAIL NEEDS OF MY VIDEOCARD?
Click to expand...

Short answer: you don't.

Oh, you can be fairly confident. You can look up the TDP of your processor (runs from the 12 V rail), your video card (this sometimes takes a bit of hunting), and you can make a decent guess at the rest of the load. But at some point, unless you have vastly too much time on your hands, a certain measure of guesswork is required.

The PSU recommendation from ATI, for instance, is based on a great deal of guesswork. They guess at what the power needs of other components in the system will be, they make an educated guess about how the power supply's rails will be configured, and they do a decent bit of rounding numbers upward. It's imprecise, but it's something. There are a lot of variables.

Summary: buy something quality, buy something with a solid 12 V rail(s), and you'll most likely be fine. Here's a review of the GameXstream 700 W, BTW.
 
Thanks for the tips guys 🙂

But isn't science supposed to be precise? I find this most in the computer industry... I get the sense that almost everyone, even the researchers/programmers/manufacturers are kind of groping blindly. There's all kinds of shifting standards, and even shiftier marketing. No one's really got the squirmy eel that is the computer by its elusive neck yet. There's no "overclocking for dummies," for example--you really have to have a doctorate in electrical engineering to know what you're doing, and what exactly is happening as you're doing it.

Handpicking parts should be more a joy and less an incredibly esoteric and tedious marathon is what I'm trying to say.


And yeah, I read guru review before I bought it. I'm hoping it's overkill!
 
The only way to know for CERTAIN is to buy all the parts and use a power supply tester to figure out the power draw. There are some calculators out there, but I only use them with a +-10% factor.
The gamxstream is WAY overkill for your rig. I would say that you could pick from a few quality 400w psus:
enhance 5140gh
seasonic s12 430w
enermax liberty 400w
fortron fsp400-gln
these would all be great for you.
 
A PSU like the Enhance ENP-5150GH (eWiz) would be plenty for your system. And the OCZ Gamestream is the same as the Fortron Epsilon series - which should cost less because of one less middleman. As said above - gross overkill. The main problem is the way PSU makers put the ratings on the label. Your Antec claims 32A total on the 12V rails. So that should total 384 watts. Now you have a 430W PSU, so that leaves about 50W for all the other rails. Does that make sense to you - I didn't think so. What all that means is that that Antec psu is unlikely to be able to put out top amps on either 12V rail ever - much less both at the same time. Basically you didn't do your PSU homework (there are many sites with decent info available - there used to be a PSU sticky in the C&C section - I wonder what became of it), so now you're stuck with a PSU you'll have to try to dump on eBay as it isn't even suitable to be closeted as an emergency backup for your system.
. A good rule-of-thumb is that PC cases almost never come with decent PSUs, so always buy separately (unless you're willing to dump the bundled PSU some way) so you can get a quality PSU that is known to cover your application.

.bh.
 
Some InWin PSUs are made by FSP, others are not. You need to be careful when picking up a InWin Case/PSU combo.
 
The PSU I have actually (the Antec SU-430, AC input table here: http://www.cluboverclocker.com/reviews/cases/antec/NSK6500/Page3.htm) is fairly good and stable for everything except high intensity graphics. So technically it is good as a "back-up," and would most definitely run well with the previous gen of graphic cards methinks. But I'll ebay it still.

As for the OCZ Gamestream, I know it's gross overkill, but I also bought the X1900 AiW as a holdover until the DX10 cards get affordable. I wanted headroom for upgrading. Plus I got it on sale, for the same price as the 600w version ($177 Canadian taxes/shipping included - 25 dollar mail-in-rebate - return from ebayed PSU: about 125-100 in the end).

Once again though, thanks for the advice. I'll be more wary from now on.
 
Originally posted by: dBTelos
Some InWin PSUs are made by FSP, others are not. You need to be careful when picking up a InWin Case/PSU combo.
Click to expand...

Not anymore; InWin makes all of their own PSUs now. They seem like they are fairly well built units however; X-bit tested them and they did alright. I?m not an expert but they seem like they are of decent build quality, probably on par with Antec at least.

I've been meaning to post pics of the internals at badcaps.net for the experts there to look at. If there is interest I can make them available here as well.
 
Saying something is Antec quality is completely crazy, everyone knows the quality of those things varies greatly 😉 Anyway, MadShrimps seems to like them. Maybe Jonny 'll do a review sometime.
 
Originally posted by: jswajsberg

But isn't science supposed to be precise?
Click to expand...
It is!
I find this most in the computer industry... I get the sense that almost everyone, even the researchers/programmers/manufacturers are kind of groping blindly. There's all kinds of shifting standards, and even shiftier marketing.
Click to expand...
That's the only thing that is shifty in that list.

If you want to know exactly how much current your graphics card draws, it is very easy to do. All you need is a digital multimeter, a 12V power supply and a saw! Yes, it will be destructive. But, it will be absolutely precise! You disconnect the graphics card from the 12V rail and provide a dedicated 12V line to it from an external 12V source through your multimeter set to measure current.
Then, you run a graphics-intensive program and measure the current.

Of course, you don't want to damage your card. No one does. But, that does not mean that science is imprecise. All that means is that the way graphics cards and motherboards are built, you cannot easily measure the current they draw.
 
Problem solved

Here is a good, reliable PSU with one hefty 12v rated at 40c

Will power what you have now, and unless you go crazy it should be good for upgrades for quite some time.
 
Originally posted by: dBTelos
The Silencer 610W can't handle any G80 SLi/CF... you might as well get a Corsair HX520W.
Click to expand...

If a 520 watt Corsair can the obviously a 600 PCP&C can as well.
 
Originally posted by: jswajsberg
A 430W Antec PSU came with my case, which has 12V1: 16A, and 12V2: 16A (32A on the 12V, no?)--(oh it's the NSK6500 case if anyone's wondering).
Click to expand...
I have the same case and PSU. No problems with a x1900xt, Core 2 Duo overclocked 3.2Ghz and two hard drives. Went through the single campaign of CoH and not one crash.

 
Perhaps you meant the 620w corsair dB? With the 50amps on the 12v rails? That should be enough if you don't have a jubilee of hard drives as the majority of the wattage is dedicated to the 12v rails... if you have a ton of perepherals, get the 850 silverstone zues.
 
Originally posted by: Rommel44
Your problem is that you dont have total 32A because you cant simply do 16A + 16A - your combined 12v line has about 25A(I dont rememer exactly). And X1900AIW will eat less than 16A but with rest of your hardware its too much for this PSU - other parts also use 12v line and their combined usage exeeded limit of your PSU. Your PSU may also provide you less than 430W.
Click to expand...

An X1900 AIW will eat less than 10 amps.
 
idd. If the psu is working to spec's then it should have plenty of power.

You have no way of knowing it's your psu at fault, you have just guessed.

It could be your memory, cpu, graphics card gpu, graphics card memory, drivers. Heavy fighting is just the point when everything is being worked hardest, any component could be going wrong at that point.
 
Originally posted by: acegazda
Perhaps you meant the 620w corsair dB? With the 50amps on the 12v rails? That should be enough if you don't have a jubilee of hard drives as the majority of the wattage is dedicated to the 12v rails... if you have a ton of perepherals, get the 850 silverstone zues.
Click to expand...

He was saying that the Silencer wouldn't handle the SLI/CF DX10 cards so you might as well get less watts and pay less money by getting the Corsair. Not that the Corsair could handle it.
 
Exxxactly. To tell you the truth, I thought I posted a good 4 line reply a couple days ago saying pretty much the same thing. Guess it never made it online 😉
 
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