shortylickens
No Lifer
- Jul 15, 2003
- 82,854
- 17,365
- 136
This thread is in danger of getting a cease and desist notice. The proper term is:
Justice for Trayvon[TM]
Justice for Trayvon[TM]
Siddhartha
Lifer
- Oct 17, 1999
- 12,502
- 1
- 81
Race has been a keystone in most discussions about this incident. Note the number of threads concerning Black on White crime in this forum.
My point is the case is clearer if race is left out. Someone shoot an unarmed person. What should be done in terms of criminal\judicial system?
xj0hnx
Diamond Member
- Dec 18, 2007
- 9,262
- 3
- 76
The interesting thing is that it seems like the vast majority of the race discussion is anti-black rather than anti-white. Obviously Jessie and Al types are making this an anti-white thing, as are others. But on this forum, the racial issues are definitely being raised mainly by people suggesting the unfairness is black -> white.
- Apr 26, 2011
- 4,261
- 21
- 81
In the end this will not be about the events between Trayvon or Zimmerman but about liberals shilling their anti-2nd amendment views by using the race and class warfare card.
Oh and there are large segments of "The people" who support the NRA and the "Stand your ground law" but I understand that in order to push a class and race warfare drum you need to objectify your target and turn it into a anonymous entity to be able to vilify it.
Theb
Diamond Member
- Feb 28, 2006
- 3,533
- 9
- 76
This. In my opinion justice is currently happening. Prior to the arrest I was in the Justice for Travon (tm) camp. Currently I feel no need to protest and my emotional investment in the case could best be described as curious.
If the evidence indicates that Trayvon Martin attacked George Zimmerman while he was walking back to his truck after learning the name of the street he was on then I hope George Zimmerman is exonerated and I will feel bad that he had to go through this ordeal.
If George Zimmerman was playing cop/vigilante and killed an innocent person, regardless of whether the shooting was the result of Zimmerman biting off more than he can chew, then I hope Zimmerman serves time proportionate to his culpability in Martin's death.
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xj0hnx
Diamond Member
- Dec 18, 2007
- 9,262
- 3
- 76
This is it in a nutshell, and has been proven by quite a few posters here already.
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
- Jan 26, 2000
- 50,879
- 4,265
- 126
That's reasonable. I wouldn't give two cents for Zimmermans life though. The people that Spike set up can tell you about that.
J-Money
Senior member
- Feb 9, 2003
- 552
- 0
- 0
Exactly how I feel too. Justice is happening.
However I don't feel it's "Justice for Trayvon" only, it's "Justice for the victim" which could be either man at this point.
Read what I wrote. Infer nothing more.
How about...
Why was a bounty placed on Zimmerman's head?
While I agree the New Black Panther Party is an insignificant entity not to be taken seriously, why are they putting out the audio that they are?
Why did NBC doctor the police audio tape to make this incident appear purely racially motivated?
Al Sharpton - I needn't ask on that account.
Why did Spike Lee tweet that address?
Why was an African-American college law professor on c-span few days ago declaring the need to start up a new wave of non-violent protests for justice?
If you feel differently, then you should not be happy with the media coverage. You should demand the media cover your angle more. Don't take it out on me for the failure of the media.
Ask yourself this, if Zimmerman had shot a white teenager "in self defense", do you believe it would have exploded into this massive nationwide story? Would it have spawned a 500+ page thread in this forum? If Zimmerman were black and Martin were white, do you believe someone would have tweeted the address of Zimmerman's parents? Do you believe masses would be marching the streets in protest? Police audio tape doctored? Any calls for further waves of non-violent protests? If Zimmerman were black, again, no Al Sharpton, no Spike Lee - although MSNBC would likely still show a partial video shot of Zimmerman where you cannot see the color of his skin and call the incident racism against blacks.
I do not believe "only black people don't like what happened", what I do believe is the racial setup of the people involved, is the primary reason why this incident has the attention it does.
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Also, don't you think there is something to the fact that, say within the confines of this thread, and probably in the longer monstrosity of a thread (though I'm not positive I never read through it), people talk about justice for race, justice for the rule of law, justice for gun advocates, justice for anti-gun advocates, justice for hoodies?, even justice for ALEC was mentioned here.
Not a single person mentioned justice for the two parents who no longer have their son with them.
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peonyu
Platinum Member
- Mar 12, 2003
- 2,038
- 23
- 81
The first news stories calling Zimmerman the "white neighborhood watchman who killed a black kid" was proof enough of a race angle from the start and made it obvious the media was trying to drum up hysteria. Add in the deceptive picture of a 10 year old Trayvon and Z in his prison mugshot and that was just icing on the cake. The media outlets have a cash-cow with this case and race is a sure fire way to rile up people and make $.
Of course Zimmerman is half Peruvian and he looks it to so that threw a wrench into it eventually...And if Z was killed a by a White guy instead its a pretty sure bet the case would be labeled as a Hispanic killed by White man or something. There is manipulation every way you look in this case as far as the media goes.
shortylickens
No Lifer
- Jul 15, 2003
- 82,854
- 17,365
- 136
No it isnt, but whatever, yur a ultra-lib, the fabric of reality bends to your imagination.
Cuda1447
Lifer
- Jul 26, 2002
- 11,757
- 0
- 71
You make some really good points. I think Zimmerman should stand trial and given what I know of the case, should do some prison time (although I think 2nd degree murder is a bit harsh). I also think the main focus of this story should be on the stand your ground law and how absolutely absurd it is. This law needs to be rethought. There are elements of race that need to be highlighted, but overall, that is the one aspect that is absolutely overblown and shouldn't be.
LunarRay
Diamond Member
- Mar 2, 2003
- 9,993
- 1
- 76
Justice... Hmmmm Seems to me that justice is a notion that is based on ethics, law, religion... a whole bunch of stuff.
In the issue of Zimmerman and Martin we are easily able to place in context this justice notion.
Based on what we know from the media reports and the law regarding 'stand your ground' we should look at this unfortunate situation first in light of the law.
What were Zimmerman's motives? Can we use what we know to define them? I think we can. We can also assume that Mr. Martin was innocent of any crime, had a reason and right to transit from the store toward his home, and may or may not have been involved in a scuffle with Mr Zimmerman.
Mr Z has called 911 on at least eight occasions in his recent past regarding possible crime issues and folks in that area. He expressed dismay over folks 'getting away with crime'. He was advised to not pursue Mr M by the 911 person but he did anyway. I presume since he was in his vehicle doing this that he simply wanted to insure the police didn't have to search for Mr M. Mr M stated that he was being followed to the person he was talking to on the phone so he was fully aware of Mr Z's presence.
At this point I'd love to have a map depicting the route Mr M took from the store, where the final event took place, the location of where he lived and IF there was any deviation from that ideal route. But, I don't at the moment.
Mr Z knows the police will arrive any moment but Mr M does not. At some point and because Mr Z has no reason to get out of his car and confront Mr M, I have to assume some kind of challenge was issued by Mr M to Mr Z sorta like, "Why are you following me?" That might be enough to get Mr Z to stop his vehicle, exit and approach Mr M... No other reason I can think of to do this. So, words must have been exchanged and a scuffle took place.
Two people both having reasonable cause to be where they were and one with some notion of duty to thwart the crime in the area but armed. The other simply walking home.
Mr M was not small by any standard even at 17 he was 160 lbs (ish) and quite tall. Mr Z is about 190 lbs (ish) and somewhat shorter. Mr Z sustained some injury as depicted in the videos to his head. There are reports he was all over grass and wet so if true Mr M did manage to cause Mr Z some stress.
The law in Florida regarding this type encounter and the actions of the police would indicate to me that based on the evidence the police did not think a crime had been committed. A homicide yes but one with an affirmative defense. Not a murder in the eyes of the police.
So... what is justice in this case? Based on what I know at this point I'd say justice enables Mr Z to continue to claim the defense allowed and Mr M lost his life because the law empowers the citizen to use deadly force IF they fear for their life while not backing down from the cause of this fear... a very subjective proposition. And probably because (I'm filling in some details here) Mr M challenged Mr Z's following of him.
A very sad case indeed. And one I feel moved the fuel to the oxygen and the heat of the situation exploded it all...
In the issue of Zimmerman and Martin we are easily able to place in context this justice notion.
Based on what we know from the media reports and the law regarding 'stand your ground' we should look at this unfortunate situation first in light of the law.
What were Zimmerman's motives? Can we use what we know to define them? I think we can. We can also assume that Mr. Martin was innocent of any crime, had a reason and right to transit from the store toward his home, and may or may not have been involved in a scuffle with Mr Zimmerman.
Mr Z has called 911 on at least eight occasions in his recent past regarding possible crime issues and folks in that area. He expressed dismay over folks 'getting away with crime'. He was advised to not pursue Mr M by the 911 person but he did anyway. I presume since he was in his vehicle doing this that he simply wanted to insure the police didn't have to search for Mr M. Mr M stated that he was being followed to the person he was talking to on the phone so he was fully aware of Mr Z's presence.
At this point I'd love to have a map depicting the route Mr M took from the store, where the final event took place, the location of where he lived and IF there was any deviation from that ideal route. But, I don't at the moment.
Mr Z knows the police will arrive any moment but Mr M does not. At some point and because Mr Z has no reason to get out of his car and confront Mr M, I have to assume some kind of challenge was issued by Mr M to Mr Z sorta like, "Why are you following me?" That might be enough to get Mr Z to stop his vehicle, exit and approach Mr M... No other reason I can think of to do this. So, words must have been exchanged and a scuffle took place.
Two people both having reasonable cause to be where they were and one with some notion of duty to thwart the crime in the area but armed. The other simply walking home.
Mr M was not small by any standard even at 17 he was 160 lbs (ish) and quite tall. Mr Z is about 190 lbs (ish) and somewhat shorter. Mr Z sustained some injury as depicted in the videos to his head. There are reports he was all over grass and wet so if true Mr M did manage to cause Mr Z some stress.
The law in Florida regarding this type encounter and the actions of the police would indicate to me that based on the evidence the police did not think a crime had been committed. A homicide yes but one with an affirmative defense. Not a murder in the eyes of the police.
So... what is justice in this case? Based on what I know at this point I'd say justice enables Mr Z to continue to claim the defense allowed and Mr M lost his life because the law empowers the citizen to use deadly force IF they fear for their life while not backing down from the cause of this fear... a very subjective proposition. And probably because (I'm filling in some details here) Mr M challenged Mr Z's following of him.
A very sad case indeed. And one I feel moved the fuel to the oxygen and the heat of the situation exploded it all...
HomerJS
Lifer
- Feb 6, 2002
- 36,056
- 27,783
- 136
That question has already been answerd by the family. An arrest and trial where all the evidence comes out.
The rest if troll bait
HomerJS
Lifer
- Feb 6, 2002
- 36,056
- 27,783
- 136
Why did Michelle Malkin repost a fake Trayvon picture?
Why did Sean Hannity say on the air Z's broken nose was confirmed when it hasen't been?
Why are the right so intent on focusing on an insignificant group and avoiding the main topic?
Why did the SPD lie about the content of the 911 tapes.
We can keep playing that game or wait until the facts come out in this case.
lotus503
Diamond Member
- Feb 12, 2005
- 6,502
- 1
- 76
Siddhartha
Lifer
- Oct 17, 1999
- 12,502
- 1
- 81
And how long do we have to wait for you to learn reading comprehension skills?
This is an easy one for you, do you believe you would have the same interest in this incident if all the participants were of the same color? And why?
Personally, I've said before, I don't particularly care what the outcome of this incident is, I do not believe the results will affect my life in any way other than this minor interruption in news feeds.
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- Apr 26, 2011
- 4,261
- 21
- 81
Londo_Jowo
Lifer
Why no justice for Robert?
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...m-black-boy-black-fraternities-and-sororities
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...m-black-boy-black-fraternities-and-sororities
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