Just WTF is WRONG WITH SCO

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
16
81
They've switched from being a software company to being a litigation factory. It's their new business plan..
 

Adul

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
32,999
44
91
danny.tangtam.com
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
They've switched from being a software company to being a litigation factory. It's their new business plan..

damn I wish I trout slap some sense into them. I cant wait for them to lose in court.
 

AnyMal

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
15,780
0
76
Originally posted by: Adul
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
They've switched from being a software company to being a litigation factory. It's their new business plan..

damn I wish I trout slap some sense into them. I cant wait for them to lose in court.

They're not going to loose. They have a legitimate claim.
 

Adul

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
32,999
44
91
danny.tangtam.com
Originally posted by: AnyMal
Originally posted by: Adul
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
They've switched from being a software company to being a litigation factory. It's their new business plan..

damn I wish I trout slap some sense into them. I cant wait for them to lose in court.

They're not going to loose. They have a legitimate claim.

they seem to be stretching the truth a little to thin if it is even truth at all.
 

AnyMal

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
15,780
0
76
Originally posted by: Adul
Originally posted by: AnyMal
Originally posted by: Adul
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
They've switched from being a software company to being a litigation factory. It's their new business plan..

damn I wish I trout slap some sense into them. I cant wait for them to lose in court.

They're not going to loose. They have a legitimate claim.

they seem to be stretching the truth a little to thin if it is even truth at all.

Well, they are the underdog and some of their tactics are probably the result of frustration or desperation. I think their claim against Novell will stand in court; the simple fact that IBM decided to pump money into Novell's Linux efforts will raise some eyebrows and will prompt questions. It's fairly clear to me that IBM is trying to shift some heat elsewhere which is not something an innocent party would do.
 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,270
103
106
It's all about the money. SCO sees this as their potential payday, and they're just doing what the lawyers say gives them the best chance of prevailing. I'm guessing in the end IBM will simply purchase SCO and the whole thing will dissapear anyway....

Nowadays, when your business model fails, you look to the courts to see if you can extort money from someone else through the legal system.
 

DurocShark

Lifer
Apr 18, 2001
15,708
5
56
Originally posted by: silverpig
Rambus of software?

Heh... That's what I was thinking...

Regardless whether they have a legal claim or not, they've obviously decided that they aren't going to grow and make new products and win customers. No, at this point they think that spending a few millions on lawsuits will get them to start raking in the money on licensing old technology. LoL

Even if they win, do they REALLY think they'll be able to enforce licensing on every copy of Linux out there? Bwahahahahahah...

Buhbye SCO.
 

FoBoT

No Lifer
Apr 30, 2001
63,084
15
81
fobot.com
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
.. a litigation factory. It's their new business plan..

there is a lot of money to be made with this business model, congress has to fix some stuff with software and patents and copyright and all that, but they don't seem to get it

its going to get ugly before it gets fixed
 

rahvin

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,475
1
0
SCO is going to likely get in trouble with the judge on Dec 6th. Unless they provide some real evidence of their claims to IBM before that date they are likely to have significant portions of their lawsuit dismissed. This is and always has been a pump and dump scheme for the stock and Canopy. Although I think you will find better discussion on the topic at http://www.groklaw.net/ instead of the idiots around here that think they could win a baseless lawsuit.
 

CTho9305

Elite Member
Jul 26, 2000
9,214
1
81
They have no sway over Novell. If anything, Novell has control of them. Novell retained some Unix rights when they sold Unix to SCO, or so I've been led to believe.
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
427
126
tbqhwy.com
Originally posted by: CTho9305
They have no sway over Novell. If anything, Novell has control of them. Novell retained some Unix rights when they sold Unix to SCO, or so I've been led to believe.

thats what i always thought
 

n0cmonkey

Elite Member
Jun 10, 2001
42,936
1
0
The BSD developers lived up to their end of the bargain. I wonder if System V developers lived up to the BSD license...
 

rahvin

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,475
1
0
Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
The BSD developers lived up to their end of the bargain. I wonder if System V developers lived up to the BSD license...

What's better is Redhat is gonna find copied kernel code in the "kernel personality" stuff in OpenUnix. After that it's either GPL'd software or they owe damages to every single kernel developer who's code they copied.
 

miniMUNCH

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2000
4,159
0
0
Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
The BSD developers lived up to their end of the bargain. I wonder if System V developers lived up to the BSD license...

...not a chance in hell.

First of all, I don't know how anyone who knows the facts of the case could honestly believe SCO has a case...I don't think SCO even believes they have a case at this point (but that is speculation on my part).

My Dad has been involved in Unix application development since Unix's inception and knows several folks who pioneered BSD and were deeply involved in the court case...the rumor (and it is just a rumor) I have heard concerning the BSD / AT&T settlement is that the court found that since the majority of software methods and algorithms contained within UNIX were the work of so many people completely unassociated with AT&T (Bell Labs) that UNIX methods and algorithms are public domain (much in the same way math is public domai), except for the stuff developed on AT&T's dollar. Well, AT&T/Bell Labs knew that they didn't keep rigorous records of what algorithms came from Bell Labs staff and what stuff came from outside sources like professors, IBM, etc. (which was well over half the code ideas) So AT&T said "sh!t, we can't show was ours and what was theirs and, truth be told, the lines between Bell lab and outside contributions are really muddled now...we'll have to public domain the whole thing."
Furthermore, the case was compounded by the fact that Unix contained copyrighted BSD original code without proper copyright, which was going to dump the whole case anyhow...So At&T settled to protect the revenue stream of "their" UNIX code base.

Short story: If SCO opens the BSD case back up...they are going to lose any and all rights get liscense money from System V code because the Unix methods and algorithms are going to be public domained...the "public domain" clause will invalidate all of their liscensing contracts.

I want to repeat that the above is simply an explanation that I have heard from people who are in place to know what is/was up with the BSD case. But it is rumor...not fact at this point.

Aside from this...the BSD case is still an iron wall and SCO has come up with dick on the Linux side of things. Did anyone see the list of files they gave to IBM as "possibly infringing"...all they did was do a "grep" of the linux source code for RCU, NUMA, SMP, and JFS...noticably leaving out the files from that search that had Caldera/SCO employee's names all over them...but forgot a few.

Honestly, what SCO is doing now should be illegal...there needs to a check in place (like systems in the UK and Germany, among others) to ensure that a company actually has real evidence supporting their case before allowing them to parade down media main st. and threaten law suit against end users, etc.
 

n0cmonkey

Elite Member
Jun 10, 2001
42,936
1
0
Originally posted by: miniMUNCH
Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
The BSD developers lived up to their end of the bargain. I wonder if System V developers lived up to the BSD license...

...not a chance in hell.

First of all, I don't know how anyone who knows the facts of the case could honestly believe SCO has a case...I don't think SCO even believes they have a case at this point (but that is speculation on my part).

My Dad has been involved in Unix application development since Unix's inception and knows several folks who pioneered BSD and were deeply involved in the court case...the rumor (and it is just a rumor) I have heard concerning the BSD / AT&T settlement is that the court found that since the majority of software methods and algorithms contained within UNIX were the work of so many people completely unassociated with AT&T (Bell Labs) that UNIX methods and algorithms are public domain (much in the same way math is public domai), except for the stuff developed on AT&T's dollar. Well, AT&T/Bell Labs knew that they didn't keep rigorous records of what algorithms came from Bell Labs staff and what stuff came from outside sources like professors, IBM, etc. (which was well over half the code ideas) So AT&T said "sh!t, we can't show was ours and what was theirs and, truth be told, the lines between Bell lab and outside contributions are really muddled now...we'll have to public domain the whole thing."
Furthermore, the case was compounded by the fact that Unix contained copyrighted BSD original code with proper copyright, which was going to dump the whole case anyhow...So At&T settled to protect the revenue stream of "their" UNIX code base.

Short story: If SCO opens the BSD case back up...they are going to lose any and all rights get liscense money from System V code because the Unix methods and algorithms are going to be public domained...the "public domain" clause will invalidate all of their liscensing contracts.

I want to repeat that the above is simply an explanation that I have heard from people who are in place to know what is/was up with the BSD case. But it is rumor...not fact at this point.

Aside from this...the BSD case is still an iron wall and SCO has come up with dick on the Linux side of things. Did anyone see the list of files they gave to IBM as "possibly infringing"...all they did was do a "grep" of the linux source code for RCU, NUMA, SMP, and JFS...noticably leaving out the files from that search that had Caldera/SCO employee's names all over them...but forgot a few.

Honestly, what SCO is doing now should be illegal...there needs to a check in place (like systems in the UK and Germany, among others) to ensure that a company actually has real evidence supporting their case before allowing them to parade down media main st. and threaten law suit against end users, etc.

The BSD developers removed 3 files out of 18k, and changed a few lines of code. That was what they owed AT&T in the end (according to several websites).

Afterwards, System V Unixes started adopting BSD pieces. Did they keep the license? No one knows. (that was really the point of my post :p).

Last, SCO (caldera at the time) released a lot of software under a BSD styled license. They can't revoke that.
 

miniMUNCH

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2000
4,159
0
0
Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
Originally posted by: miniMUNCH
Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
The BSD developers lived up to their end of the bargain. I wonder if System V developers lived up to the BSD license...

...not a chance in hell.

First of all, I don't know how anyone who knows the facts of the case could honestly believe SCO has a case...I don't think SCO even believes they have a case at this point (but that is speculation on my part).

My Dad has been involved in Unix application development since Unix's inception and knows several folks who pioneered BSD and were deeply involved in the court case...the rumor (and it is just a rumor) I have heard concerning the BSD / AT&T settlement is that the court found that since the majority of software methods and algorithms contained within UNIX were the work of so many people completely unassociated with AT&T (Bell Labs) that UNIX methods and algorithms are public domain (much in the same way math is public domai), except for the stuff developed on AT&T's dollar. Well, AT&T/Bell Labs knew that they didn't keep rigorous records of what algorithms came from Bell Labs staff and what stuff came from outside sources like professors, IBM, etc. (which was well over half the code ideas) So AT&T said "sh!t, we can't show was ours and what was theirs and, truth be told, the lines between Bell lab and outside contributions are really muddled now...we'll have to public domain the whole thing."
Furthermore, the case was compounded by the fact that Unix contained copyrighted BSD original code with proper copyright, which was going to dump the whole case anyhow...So At&T settled to protect the revenue stream of "their" UNIX code base.

Short story: If SCO opens the BSD case back up...they are going to lose any and all rights get liscense money from System V code because the Unix methods and algorithms are going to be public domained...the "public domain" clause will invalidate all of their liscensing contracts.

I want to repeat that the above is simply an explanation that I have heard from people who are in place to know what is/was up with the BSD case. But it is rumor...not fact at this point.

Aside from this...the BSD case is still an iron wall and SCO has come up with dick on the Linux side of things. Did anyone see the list of files they gave to IBM as "possibly infringing"...all they did was do a "grep" of the linux source code for RCU, NUMA, SMP, and JFS...noticably leaving out the files from that search that had Caldera/SCO employee's names all over them...but forgot a few.

Honestly, what SCO is doing now should be illegal...there needs to a check in place (like systems in the UK and Germany, among others) to ensure that a company actually has real evidence supporting their case before allowing them to parade down media main st. and threaten law suit against end users, etc.

The BSD developers removed 3 files out of 18k, and changed a few lines of code. That was what they owed AT&T in the end (according to several websites).

Afterwards, System V Unixes started adopting BSD pieces. Did they keep the license? No one knows. (that was really the point of my post :p).

Last, SCO (caldera at the time) released a lot of software under a BSD styled license. They can't revoke that.


Yep...I made a typo in my above post...the whole code without proper attribution/liscense thing is what ultimately dumped the BSD/At&T case in the first place. And now SCO is going around saying linux stole System V code and some the examples they are showing is actually line-for-line BSD code...no, linux used some old BSD code (and has proper attribution in the source code) and SCO failed realize it because the attribution is gone in the System V code (IBM and every other 10yr+ UNJIX/SysV liscensee has this proof BTW)...rumor again, but I heard that several long time liscensees have gone back through old issues of SysV source code and saw that this did in fact happen by comparing verisons of SysV release source with one another and predating BSD source-->code was added from BSD into SysV sans the copyright/attribution (again, a rumor, since I have seen none of this first hand).

So not only did they not prove their case against Linux in any material way, they may also have hung themselves out to dry for copyright violation of BSD code...again.

I'm telling you, if even half this stuff is true, if SCO really goes to trial...they will cease to exist. IBM will hit them so hard from so many angles (forget what IBM may or may not have done) they will beg for mercy but will legally be allowed none. Worst case scenario...IBM reopens the BSD case to finish off the "public domain of UNIX methods" argument (if that is indeed what happened...which I strongly believe) and SCO is gone and UNIX SysV code is free.

But also, SCO does not have any contractual basis for it's law suit against IBM either. That whole little thing about Sequent came back in the lime light a couple days ago (the register had a little piece on it...mind you, the register is half tabloid sometimes). Sequent designed an RCU algorithm and then, after designing it and patenting it, was paid to implement it in SysV along with permanent liscense for the code. IBM bought Sequent and decide to implement the same algorithm for linux and donate it to Linux source...totally within their right as patent holder as the method itself is in no way a derivative of Unix.

Okay...I'm done now.