Just when I feel a slight tinge of confidence in the Republicans, I read this

[ebaycj]

Yup - but the important thing is WHOSE taxes and WHICH spending.

We can further concentrate wealth, or we can have responsible policies benefitting the country.

Oh I'm with you. Personally I think we need more "high" tax brackets.

Right now we top out at $350K or so. Personally I think that's too low.

People making $2M a year should certainly pay more of a percentage in tax than people making $350K.
Just as people making $20M a year should pay more of a percentage in tax than people making $2M.
Just as people making $200M a year should pay more of a percentage in tax than people making $20M.

Marginal utility of money + High concentration of wealth = Country FAIL.

 

[Carmen813]

Raising taxes while increasing spending is not being "Fiscally conservative".

It is, IMO, responsible to raise taxes right now. However, cutting spending is IMO, much more responsible. We are in a recession, the worst thing to do while in a recession is raise taxes.

With the second worst (if not first) thing being cutting spending.

 

[EXman]

You do know that taxs are on the PROFIT of a business, not its sales. Most major business's have so many loopholes/breaks/etc... that even if they make billions in profits they pay about half of the tax rate that is listed.
Not that you are one to believe the BS that some groups and republicans are running on TV and Radio right?

Really thanks...

So you imply they should make nothing? You want loopholes... You realize we have people nearly 40% that pay NO Taxes and some get back 5k a year? Is that equitable? Where is that creating jobs? So the small business owners that are getting piled on right now with more taxes need to just suck it up so we can continue spending more on entitlements? What kind of Jobs do entitlements make?

 

[ebaycj]

You all do not understand a thing if the people who make jobs have less. They cannot reinvest that $ into their biz and create more jobs. As Costs get higher and the gov't demands more $ out of the biz they have to more operations/jobs elsewhere.

Do we want Washington to centeralize our power and spend/invest our money wisely? How is that working for us? How is that working for California?

Class warfare as usual. Penalize the people who produce give to those who leech and work the system. How has that worked with our manufacturing sector?

I dare you even to play Simcity you could learn the basics of economics.

They certainly can "reinvest $ into their biz" as much as they wish, because taxes are calculated on Net Profits only.

Net Profit is calculated AFTER all expenses have been deducted from Gross Profit, including any expenses related to expanding/growing the business.

Even if their taxes were significantly increased, they could still reinvest as much or as little of their Gross Profits as they desired.

Your argument stops here.

 

[EXman]

Marginal utility of money + High concentration of wealth = Country FAIL.

Unending entitlements + Government picking winning businesses + taxing business into extinction + spending with borrowed money = Country Fvcked

 

[Vette73]

Really thanks...

So you imply they should make nothing? You want loopholes... You realize we have people nearly 40% that pay NO Taxes and some get back 5k a year? Is that equitable? Where is that creating jobs? So the small business owners that are getting piled on right now with more taxes need to just suck it up so we can continue spending more on entitlements? What kind of Jobs do entitlements make?

AGAIN you bought the BS that this would hurt small business's. In fact it would not. You can buy it and try to sell it but facts are not on your side.

Please tell me what "small" business's this will affect "down the road" from you?

 

[EXman]

They certainly can "reinvest $ into their biz" as much as they wish, because taxes are calculated on Net Profits only.

Net Profit is calculated AFTER all expenses have been deducted from Gross Profit, including any expenses related to expanding/growing the business.

Even if their taxes were significantly increased, they could still reinvest as much or as little of their Gross Profits as they desired.

Your argument stops here.

in your world it does.... glad you make doing business so easy.

This is small thinking from a non business owner that couldn't do a P&L on a lemonade stand. While I am generalizing any cost that the government demands that truely has nothing to do with anything other than the gov't making a buck as a tax. Because that is what it is a tax.

Example let's take HSA's in a few years there will be a %40 tax on every dollar paid to a employee HSA even though it will be a fee and "part of doing business" it impacts the bottom line. That impact will significantly decrease the amount of funds availible to reinvest. Also people will lose jobs and benefits. Or since it is a regulation they might be forced to close as it will not be beneficial to work so hard for so little or nothing. You cannot pass along all the new costs to the customers. At some point the market will not bare it. This isn't a tough concept. When the pie gets smaller at somepoint something has to give. Your sophomore business course does not expose you the real world.

Please stop trying to explain how business taxes and/or business reinvestment works. You pick and choose details and leave out many as well. If you cut to the end keeping it so simple you have lost the point of even doing business. Profit. Profit is not built in and it does not happen by accident. You have to work hard for it.

 

[EXman]

Please tell me what "small" business's this will affect "down the road" from you?

HVAC company and a restaurant. Look around it is the countless guys driving trucks fixing shit that you break and cannot fix.

Please tell me you are not making significant business desicions effecting other peoples lives. Or Worse a Prof at The University of Bankrupt indoctrinating kids that profit is built into just doing business.

 

[Vette73]

HVAC company and a restaurant. Look around it is the countless guys driving trucks fixing shit that you break and cannot fix.

Please tell me you are not making significant business desicions effecting other peoples lives. Or Worse a Prof at The University of Bankrupt indoctrinating kids that profit is built into just doing business.

The 2 you gave are great examples, as I have had family that ran restaurants and my dad his own HVAC Company. They set them up properly, Corp, and have 1 for business side and then paid them self. Neither would even come close to the 250k on income taxs.

Thanks for making my point that this 250k (for married couples) limit would not affect small businesses.

 

[EXman]

The 2 you gave are great examples, as I have had family that ran restaurants and my dad his own HVAC Company. They set them up properly, Corp, and have 1 for business side and then paid them self. Neither would even come close to the 250k on income taxs.

Thanks for making my point that this 250k (for married couples) limit would not affect small businesses.

Not every business man can afford to pay himself is one of my points. For many the Business is the man. And that is not uncommon no matter how easily you dismiss it. It is not just how you set it up it is how you run it. I've gone through two plumbers in the last year that just had to catch on with a large regional plumbing companies because they could not make enough or had time to administer a business properly.

Also there are Small Business men that are making it and are making 250K you cannot say all make under that amount. Some are spreading out and becoming larger in there region and not just local but are still defined as a "small business." Small business just does not mean mom and pop. We are on two seperate pages here.

Now you will say something like "they are not a small business"

 

[Vette73]

Not every business man can afford to pay himself is one of my points. For many the Business is the man. And that is not uncommon no matter how easily you dismiss it. It is not just how you set it up it is how you run it. I've gone through two plumbers in the last year that just had to catch on with a large regional plumbing companies because they could not make enough or had time to administer a business properly.

Also there are Small Business men that are making it and are making 250K you cannot say all make under that amount. Some are spreading out and becoming larger in there region and not just local but are still defined as a "small business." Small business just does not mean mom and pop. We are on two seperate pages here.

Now you will say something like "they are not a small business"

Your first paragraph makes no sense. If they are not making money then the 250k limit would have no affect on them. But if republicans block and Dem bill their taxes would go up no matter what profit they make.

So in other words you are using made up businesses and have nothing to back up your claims. I gave real world examples and I even ran my own business once. The whole “think of the small business” is BS and you bought it and are trying to resell it.

 

[BoberFett]

I'm still trying to figure out why the Democrats think that this measly $70B a year they can tax from the wealthy is going to make one bit of difference. Taxes need to go up for everyone. If the middle class is going to keep voting for more spending, then everybody needs to step up. $70B/yr is peanuts.

 

[Craig234]

UNFUNDED???

That is a myth. Or rather your semantics. You don't fund tax cuts that is the big lie. The money is not theirs to start with. I know you will think that is crazy talk but that kind of thinking is what got a large part of our population underwater by counting on making more money and not less.

I'd still rather have a large amount of real actual people with a 2.5 trillion stimulus as you would put it. The Government buys $800 hammers and toilet seats still.

You don't understand what a deficit is?

If you have a budget of $20 trillion spending and $20 trillion taxes, what is the deficit?

If you have a budget of $20 trillion spending and $10 trillion taxes, what is the deficit?

If you don't want to increase the deficit, then if you spend more or cut taxes, you look how to 'pay for' it.

Why doesn't a business just lower prices? Because that cuts into profits (or makes the loss bigger). If they want to cut prices, they might need to 'pay for it' by reducing spending or increasing income somewhere. Why doesn't a government just cut taxes? Because if it doesn't want more debt, it has to 'pay for' the loss of revenue with lower spending or income somewhere.

 

[Craig234]

You all do not understand a thing if the people who make jobs have less. They cannot reinvest that $ into their biz and create more jobs.

No, they can SPEND it in other people's businesses so they can create jobs.

Does giving the rich money result in all this employment you mention?

No. Some does, but a lot of it simply results in acquiring more and increasing the prices the things they own are worth as there's more money among those competing to own them.

One dollar in tax cuts was found to bring in 22 cents in taxes.

Economists say money to the bottom is far more efficient at fueling the economy and employment.

Class warfare as usual. Penalize the people who produce give to those who leech and work the system. How has that worked with our manufacturing sector?

More ignorant ideology. There is class warfare by the rich that they are winning.

You haven't heard me say dozens of times that in the last 30 years, about all the new wealth from the economy's growth has gone only to the top 20% after inflation - for the first time in our nation's history? That's the relevant fact on 'class warfare', but you are like talking to a wall aren't you, parrot parrot parrot your simplictic and wrong ideology and ignore facts.

Filled with your parrot propaganda words - 'punish' the rich to tax them, 'reward the leeches' for any spending that benefits the people of the country, ignorant of the situation.

What you suggest drives the country to third-world status where the rich own everything and there's no middle class - back to the late 1800's.

You could look at the robber baron era and use your propaganda - look at the government trying to punish the wealthy who provide empoyment, and all those workers alondside their children in factories 16 hours a day are the 'leeches' who are trying to steal the company's money to pay better wages and provide safety and such.

You're an economic idiot who does not understand what you are pushing, just parroting.

I dare you even to play Simcity you could learn the basics of economics.

That doesn't say what you want it to.

 

[Paratus]

So can someone answer me this.

If they pass the bill fix the tax cut for those who make less than 250,000 doesn't that apply to everyone since this is a marginal rate?

So even the rich will keep a portion of the current tax cut?

 

[Vette73]

So can someone answer me this.

If they pass the bill fix the tax cut for those who make less than 250,000 doesn't that apply to everyone since this is a marginal rate?

So even the rich will keep a portion of the current tax cut?

On the amount less then 250k (for married couples) yes.

Thats why its dumb when people say the rich needs more tax breaks as the middle class tax breaks also help them as well.