Just watched Driven...do they actually continue F1 races in that much rain?

[vi edit]

Yes I know that it's a movie, but I also realize that F1 racing is far more demanding than than watered down, drive in a circle, NASCAR. Do they actually race if there is standing water on a track and it's still coming down in buckets?

 

[Crimson]

Driven is based on CART, not F1.. Not sure on the rain thing though, I have seen them race on some pretty wet tracks though.

 

[StageLeft]

The real question is: Should I rent this movie - is it worth watching?

 

[vi edit]

<< Driven is based on CART, not F1 >>



Ooops. What exactly is the difference?

 

[vi edit]

Skoorb, not a bad flick. It doesn't exactly invoke deep philosophical thought, but I don't feel a waste of my $2.50 either

There is certainly some very nice scenery

 

[LethalWolfe]

Haven't sceen Driven. But if it's based on "Indy cars" (CART or IRL) then there isn't ANY rain racing. Indy cars use "slicks" (tires w/o tred for best gripping) just like NASCAR.


Lethal

EDIT: spelling

 

[Handle]

In Formula 1, yes they do race in the rain, even when it is coming down in buckets. They have monsoon tires, wet tires, intermediates, and dries, as well as hard and soft compounds. If the rain is insanely excessive, however, they can red flag a race (this has not happened since I began watching). Some drivers are good in the rain, some aren't... yes, it takes a lot of skill to drive while your car aquaplanes (they say aquaplane instead of hydroplane in F1).

Driven is based on CART. Interestingly enough, I do not believe they race in the rain (although I could be wrong... I doubt they race in the rain on ovals).

 

[GL]

F1 is the pinnacle of motorsport. Each team develops their own chassis and may have their own engine. The likes of Ferrari, Mercedes, BMW, Honda, Jaguar, and other are in F1. In CART, a team doesn't have to develop their own chassis and engine - they can simply buy one from one of the chassis providers like Reynard or Lola, and use an engine from Honda or Toyota. F1 has no oval courses and only races at racing circuits. CART has oval races and races on streets as well as circuits. CART cars have turbos and have a higher top speed than F1 but an F1 car with a normally-aspirated engine can out-accelerate, out-brake, and take corners faster than a CART car. F1 generally has more talented drivers. Many F1 drivers have retired and gone to CART, then done very well there - i.e. Nigell Mansell won CART in his rookie season after retiring from F1. Going from CART to F1 is another story. For example, Michael Andretti races in CART and went to F1 in the early 90s and failed miserably. There are only two CART drivers that have really survived in F1 - Jacques Villeneuve and Juan Pablo Montoya.

That about sums up the major differences Needless to say, Driven was supposed to be about F1 but Bernie Ecclestone (the head of F1) read the script and said it was not good enough for F1 - seriously!

EDIT: I'm being a bit harsh on Andretti, but basically he just didn't make it in F1 (may not have been entirely due to his talent or lackthereof).

 

[StageLeft]

Cool I think I'll check it out this weekend with some beer.

Interesting GL - so I guess it was CART that was racing on the streets of Halifax a decade ago. At the time I was uninterested, but I've wished they'd bring it back. They blocked off streets and did some re-paving. It would have been sweet to watch now

 

[vi edit]

Thanks for the summary GL! Where does the LeMans series of races fit in? I know that it is made up by a bunch of different car manufactuers that build their own cars, and that they race on road tracks. Is the LeMans at, above, or below the CART level?

 

[trmiv]

<< Haven't sceen Driven. But if it's based on "Indy cars" (CART or IRL) then there isn't ANY rain racing. Indy cars use "slicks" (tires w/o tred for best gripping) just like NASCAR.


Lethal

EDIT: spelling >>



Not true, they race both F1 and Indy cars in the rain. They are allowed to use rain tires when it rains. The only time Indy cars don't race in the rain is if they are racing on an oval. And the non rain tires F1 uses actually have straight grooves in them, so they aren't completely slicks. They did it to try to slow the cars down (which didn't work BTW).

 

[GL]

Well, LeMans is considered below F1 but it's probably a toss-up between it and CART. Many retired F1 drivers go to LeMans and race there. Similarly, many F1 drivers go to CART after retirement. One soon-to-be retired F1 driver you should look out for is Jean Alesi. Although his statistics in F1 are mediocre, he's a pure racer and will probably do well in CART if he goes there (rumours have him going there).

Many of the traditional levels of racing achieved their high status through snobbery though. In general, F1 drivers would frown upon CART drivers. So, to compare two different racing leagues is largely a subjective task. LeMans would probably have more competition amongst chassis and engine development though. CART isn't really used for chassis and engine development as it is used for testing existing technologies in a racing environment. If you look at the CART teams, the cars all look the same and the engines are all based off the same designs. In F1 or LeMans, the cars all look different and the engines are all different too. That's because the manufacturers nowadays use these racing leagues to develop technologies you'll see in your road car 5-10 years down the road.

 

[Tom]

They race CART races in the rain.

And on the topic of CART drivers who raced in F1, you must have forgotten about MARIO ANDRETTI, who BTW, won the F1 driver's championship.

 

[LethalWolfe]

<<

<< Haven't sceen Driven. But if it's based on "Indy cars" (CART or IRL) then there isn't ANY rain racing. Indy cars use "slicks" (tires w/o tred for best gripping) just like NASCAR.


Lethal

EDIT: spelling >>



They race both F1 and Indy cars in the rain. They are allowed to use rain tires when it rains. The only time Indy cars don't race in the rain is if they are racing on an oval. >>



Thanx for setting me straight. The only time I pay attention to Indy cars is when it's May in Indianapolis. the 500 is on an oval. And they don't race if someone throws a coke on the track

Lethal

 

[satori]

You know... everyone bitches at Alex Rodriguez for making $25 million a year... but isn't Schumacher making something like 50 million a year? He is an awesome driver, though (perhaps the greatest ever?). He's supposed to be one of the better drivers in the rain, right?

Anyways, the F1 cars really do seem more advanced that their Cart counterparts... but then they spend so much freaking money for each team, that they'd better be better... The cheapest budget for last year was Arrows at $45 million and the highest was Ferrari at $240 million!!!

btw, got those numbers from some link. The $240 million amount sounds like something I also read in Motor Trend or Car and Driver, too.

 

[GL]

Mario Andretti went to CART after his career in F1. Before F1 he was actually involved in the USAC which was a precursor to modern day CART.

 

[SludgeFactory]

This year's CART race at Elkhart Lake was red flagged when heavy rain flooded one part of the track. They had to make some some emergency drainage improvements to get rid of the river flowing across the track. The ride height of the cars is so low that the underbody of the cars hydroplane if the water is deep enough.

Ayrton Senna was the greatest rain driver I have ever seen. He was incredible in the wet, particularly when the rain was just beginning and everyone else was struggling to stay on the road on slicks.

 

[Tom]

Mario raced in CART in 1979, and raced in F1 in 1980.

He raced in CART in 1980, and raced in F1 in 1981

He raced in CART in 1981 and in F1 in 1982.

In each case he would qualify as a CART driver going to F1, even using your hypertechnical definition, which is meaningless since Mario raced in the pre-cursor of CART, before CART existed, and then raced in F1.



Lets say that Michael Schumacher is the best F1 driver right now, and Kenny Brack is the best CART driver; I doubt if either one of them could stay on the lead lap for 500 miles at Charlotte in NASCAR cars, and Steve Kinser would spank their as# at Eldora in Outlaw sprint cars.

But Mario, thats a different kind of animal. He could do all of those things as well or better than any of his contemporaries.

 

[trmiv]

<< Steve Kinser would spank their as# at Eldora in Outlaw sprint cars. >>



Holy crap! Finally someone on here that knows what sprint car racing is! You are talking about a good percentage of my life growing up man. I've spent a lot of times around sprint cars.

 

[dawheat]

Driven was easily the worst movie i've ever watched. If you watch it as a movie- that's fine, but it has absolutely no basis in reality.

CART will not race in downpours- i belive if there is anything more than a drizzle- they will halt the race.

F1 will race in anything short of a flood. They did bring out the safety car in Malaysia this year which is extremely unusual for F1 as they normally trust the teams and drivers to keep going. But watching MS and Rubens rip through the field on intermediates was nothing short of astounding.

As GL stated- F1 is the technological peak of motor racing. They will outaccelerate, massively out brake, out corner an indy car. Top speed is also an unknown simply b/c F1 cars were not built to run on ovals. On high speed tracks such as Hockenheim, the BMWs were hitting 219mph. This is on a track with a tight infield section.

Watching Michael Schumacher win I belive Monaco 97' in the wet with an absoltely dominating performance was breathtaking- ripping around the insanely tight circuit with in the middle of a downpour was amazing.

Also the average driving talent in F1 is higher than in CART. F1 cars, b/c they are so dependent on aerodynamic grip and with grooved tires are far more twitchy and sensitive an a Indy car.

I belive one CART driver once remarked- in a F1 car, sometimes you go through a corner so fast, you blink and wonder how you just got through the corner.

 

[Freejack2]

One thing I'm wondering about in the movie though.
Remember the scene where the young guy gets pissed off when the girl goes back to her fiancee and he takes of in one of the show cars and Sylvester Stallone takes off after him?

I noticed that when they drove past things at full blast they would scatter stuff or even shatter glass. Can those cars really do that?

 

[CocaCola5]

I am not sure about CART but F1 is based on visibility not necessarily how hard its raining. Even if its light rain, they will still call out the pace car if the vision is bad.

 

[sandorski]

Driven, IMO, is an ok movie. I don't think it was based on F1 or CART, but was a generic both not commiting itself to either, yet implying both. IOW, it was a movie about racing that didn't try to be F1 or CART.