Just want to ask - How many of you support what is described...

routan

Senior member
Sep 12, 2010
837
0
0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbgRL2o_60U&feature=related

This isnt a report from Palestinians/Arabs/sympathisers. This is a video of two IDF soldiers.

EDIT:
Everyone who views this thread should definitely note the tilt of posters towards criticising me as being anti-jewish whereas I have not made any remarks to lend credence to such statements.
 
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cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
The world ain't perfect and never will be. Want to see the reports of all the wrongly convicted and even wrongly executed people in my home state of Illinois?

This thread exists solely because you want to put down the Jewish people. And if you claim otherwise, you are only lying to yourself.

What is your end-goal?
 
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Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
348
126
"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power tends to corrupt absolutely."

It's a good example, where on the one hand Israelis will feel good that they have rules, and have an 'investigative unit' who will look into evidence of wrongdoing.

And yet, that child had no protections, and there are pressures for the military involved to falsify a report to avoid that very investigative unit.

As a bureaucratic matter, how is justice going to happen? It won't. Are the pressures larger for the leaders to protect their soldiers than for justice?

Studies have shown that simply having this power over people tends to corrupt people, otherwise 'good people'.

There was a famous experiment in California where students were split into 'guards and prisoners', and they had to end it because the 'guards' had become dangerously abusive. It's a pretty well known situation (also think about the Abu Ghraib history, as well as many other reports without the photos).

And I think this is a lot of why many Israelies are conflicted - 'good people' who don't like a lot of the wrongs done and covered up that go with being an occupier.

Of course, that's from a pretty neutral point of view; the people occupied are going to pretty understandably develop a lot of hate. That boy had a family.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
348
126
The world ain't perfect and never will be. Want to see the reports of all the wrongly convicted and even wrongly executed people in my home state of Illinois?

This thread exists solely because you want to put down the Jewish people. And if you claim otherwise, you are only lying to yourself.

What is your end-goal?

To expose injustice, it seems to me, not your lie of being anti-Jewish (here).

I'd rather hear from your governor who suspended all capital punishment in your state, than from people like you who say 'crap happens, oh well'.

That seems to be a difference between many on the right and left - the right mostly concerned with wrongs done to them, not wrongs done to someone.
 

routan

Senior member
Sep 12, 2010
837
0
0
The world ain't perfect and never will be. Want to see the reports of all the wrongly convicted and even wrongly executed people in my home state of Illinois?

This thread exists solely because you want to put down the Jewish people. And if you claim otherwise, you are only lying to yourself.

What is your end-goal?

lol, that is hilarious. the two interviewees are JEWISH. So if i was putting them down, basically im discrediting them. Or wait, am I discrediting the JEWISH people of the IDF? Is that a double negative? You're such an idiot :rolleyes:

Just because I am asking the opinion of people on the treatment of Palestinians doesnt mean i am putting down Jews.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,446
7,508
136
Just want to ask - How many of you support what is described...

Those who assaulted (tortured?) the boy should be severely punished, possibly executed.

Those who knew, but did nothing at the time, should be demoted / punished accordingly.

What was described there is corruption. Corruption of authority, which is something we should all have contempt for. Reform is required to avoid such situations in the future.

Do I support what, abuse of the innocent as described there? Hell no. Make it a poll, to see how stupid that question is. The answer should be a foregone conclusion.
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,164
0
0
Do I support what, abuse of the innocent as described there? Hell no. Make it a poll, to see how stupid that question is. The answer should be a foregone conclusion.

We have a winner. Soldiers torture boy and cover up incident. And we're asked if this is OK? Yeah sure, I think torture is a great idea and that it should always be covered up.

This thread is a statement in the form of a question which isn't really a question, and the OP's selection of the particular abuse/atrocity is a clue as to what that statement is about.
 

Macamus Prime

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2011
3,108
0
0
More posters would reply, but they are too busy masturbating to this story.

a777pilot is going to go Rusty Venture on this one,...
 

routan

Senior member
Sep 12, 2010
837
0
0
We have a winner. Soldiers torture boy and cover up incident. And we're asked if this is OK? Yeah sure, I think torture is a great idea and that it should always be covered up.

This thread is a statement in the form of a question which isn't really a question, and the OP's selection of the particular abuse/atrocity is a clue as to what that statement is about.

ridiculous. there are many on this forum who turn a blind eye to the abuse and misuse of authority, be it from the IDF or our own soldiers. In fact, many times, such abuse is supported under the guise of "defense" and "dealing with terrorists".

Here's a video straight up from Prime Minister Netanyahu's aide:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inynw-MubCk

Watch it. According to him, the actions on civilians is because their parents elected Hamas, who Israel (and other countries) classify as terrorists.

If you dont support it, that is well and good. No need to read further on my question.
 

Pulsar

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2003
5,225
306
126
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbgRL2o_60U&feature=related

This isnt a report from Palestinians/Arabs/sympathisers. This is a video of two IDF soldiers.

Ok. So your question is - "How many of you supporty torturing small children." You just HAPPEN to have picked the IDF soldiers video as an example.

Your unasked second question (or implication), is that this is representative of the IDF. That is no more true than suggesting that My Lai is representative of all the US Armed forces.

So for you first question - no one supports it.
To your second question, unasked but very clear from your posting history, attitude, and the video you chose - No. This does not represent the IDF as a whole, and does not turn them into the dirty violent filth you'd so much like them to be. In fact, the video shows just how very human these people are.

A very poor troll, like most of your posts.
 
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woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,164
0
0
ridiculous. there are many on this forum who turn a blind eye to the abuse and misuse of authority, be it from the IDF or our own soldiers. In fact, many times, such abuse is supported under the guise of "defense" and "dealing with terrorists".

Here's a video straight up from Prime Minister Netanyahu's aide:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inynw-MubCk

Watch it. According to him, the actions on civilians is because their parents elected Hamas, who Israel (and other countries) classify as terrorists.

If you dont support it, that is well and good. No need to read further on my question.

The video you first linked has an Israeli soldier saying a child was tortured and it was covered up. Assuming she is telling the truth, I doubt anyone would support that, and I think you know that too. In your second link the aid is justifying a blockade, not torture. Regardless of whether you or I agree or disagree with that, it isn't the same thing.

The real truth of the matter is, you found a youtube link that makes Israel look bad and you just wanted to post it here. If you're going to be honest, you'll admit that. Between this and another thread, you're big on the anti-Israel youtube links today, it seems.

Should I go hunting for videos to paint Palestinians and Arabs in a bad light? Shall I start a thread that says, look, this rape victim in Saudi Arabia is being whipped for allowing herself to be raped, and I'm curious who supports that?

The truth about this conflict in the middle east is that it's a low burn military conflict and a high burn PR conflict. Both sides are playing it as a PR game, and every incident that occurs is put under a magnifying glass. And it isn't only the press that is aiding and abetting it. Ordinary people are doing it all over the internet.

- wolf
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
0
So, you would kill off the Jews so that the Palestinians would have a State?

He didn't say that, nobody in this thread said that. Better go see the doc, that mini stroke has you reading things that aren't there.
 

routan

Senior member
Sep 12, 2010
837
0
0
Ok. So your question is - "How many of you supporty torturing small children." You just HAPPEN to have picked the IDF soldiers video as an example.

Your unasked second question (or implication), is that this is representative of the IDF. That is no more true than suggesting that My Lai is representative of all the US Armed forces.

So for you first question - no one supports it.
To your second question, unasked but very clear from your posting history, attitude, and the video you chose - No. This does not represent the IDF as a whole, and does not turn them into the dirty violent filth you'd so much like them to be. In fact, the video shows just how very human these people are.

A very poor troll, like most of your posts.

my implication is that this is an example of what is done and not even documented by the IDF. Without international observers or oversight, such incidents could happen unabated, and probably does. do you have any proof to the contrary?

now lets take the example of a palestinian action and the consequences. one video would bring the hordes of you crying out on the "filthy", "terrorist" Palestinians/Arabs.

I also like your assertion that burning cigarettes on a young teenager is an example of how human these soldiers are :rolleyes:
 

routan

Senior member
Sep 12, 2010
837
0
0
The video you first linked has an Israeli soldier saying a child was tortured and it was covered up. Assuming she is telling the truth, I doubt anyone would support that, and I think you know that too. In your second link the aid is justifying a blockade, not torture. Regardless of whether you or I agree or disagree with that, it isn't the same thing.

The real truth of the matter is, you found a youtube link that makes Israel look bad and you just wanted to post it here. If you're going to be honest, you'll admit that. Between this and another thread, you're big on the anti-Israel youtube links today, it seems.

Should I go hunting for videos to paint Palestinians and Arabs in a bad light? Shall I start a thread that says, look, this rape victim in Saudi Arabia is being whipped for allowing herself to be raped, and I'm curious who supports that?

The truth about this conflict in the middle east is that it's a low burn military conflict and a high burn PR conflict. Both sides are playing it as a PR game, and every incident that occurs is put under a magnifying glass. And it isn't only the press that is aiding and abetting it. Ordinary people are doing it all over the internet.

- wolf

The second video is representative of the collective punishment of the state of Israel and the IDF on Palestinians being justified, in this case, not providing even humanitarian aid.

The first one was an example of the punishment in the form of torture.

If you cant find the relation, you just have blinders on.

As for finding videos portraying Palestinians, Arabs, Egypt, Pakistan, Muslims in bad light, numerous ones have been posted, and countless opinions decrying them in the collective have been contributed. Heck, there is a thread right now about Israeli embassy in Egypt overrun, and all of Egypt is held to account. So spare me the "honesty" lecture.
 

QuantumPion

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
6,010
1
76
The difference between Israelis and palestinians is that Israelis make videos criticizing their own armed forces. Palestinians would throw parties in the streets and make those soldiers national heroes for having the bravery to murder infants in their sleep.
 

AMFMQAM

Banned
Sep 5, 2011
24
0
0

Pity me, for I am a 9/11 truther who is off his meds.
 
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routan

Senior member
Sep 12, 2010
837
0
0
The difference between Israelis and palestinians is that Israelis make videos criticizing their own armed forces. Palestinians would throw parties in the streets and make those soldiers national heroes for having the bravery to murder infants in their sleep.

And here you have it, a prime example of how attitudes of Israeli torture is justified by demeaning Palestinians and throwing in unsubstantiated rhetoric and random nonsense
 

Corn

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 1999
6,389
29
91
9-11 & Iraq War Whistleblowers - Rowley, Sabrosky, Edmonds & Plame, Kwiatkowski, Manning


A number of Americans have shed light on the events of 9-11 & the Iraq War.

Are these people Heroes, or Just People Who Were Doing their Job ?

1. Coleen Rowley - an FBI whistleblower whose job it was to track Zacarias Moussawi.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1003988,00.html
"Since Sept. 11, the 48-year-old had muzzled her grief about the bureaus failures--specifically, about how it ignored cries from her office to take seriously the case of Zacarias Moussaoui, a French-Moroccan who spoke poor English and had signed up at a local flight school, keen to fly a 747."

Time magazine simultaneously 'honors' Rowley - and buries her story. Anybody here got time to wade through their 8 pages of fluff to find out what she knew & when she knew it, on the Time website ?


2. Alan Sabrosky - Former Director of the Army War College.

Says it quite simply - Israel did 9-11, with assistance with persons placed in the US government.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/07/17/911-and-israel-alan-sabroskys-shocking-press-tv-interview/

"Sabrosky's case, presented with much clarity, plants responsibility for 9/11 at the feet of Israel and Americans whose loyalties, if we can call them that, are certainly not to the United States."

Those 'hippies' at Veteran's Today - what are they smoking ?

Sabrosky Makes the Case -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_Ffz0koJbI


3. Sibel Edmonds - NSA Linguist Who Uncovered US Government Complicity in 9-11.

Sibel speaks directly about the cover-up. As a linguist, she was told to stop work on translations - while the FBI was telling Congress it needed more money for translators. Meanwhile, the perpetrators of 9-11 run free - this is part of how the cover-up worked.

Judeo-Fascism in action. But don't believe me - here's Sibel's website
http://www.justacitizen.com/

Sibel Edmonds Letter to Chairman Thomas Kean -

"After the terrorist attacks of September 11 we, the translators at the FBI’s largest and most important translation unit, were told to slow down, even stop, translation of critical information related to terrorist activities so that the FBI could present the United States Congress with a record of ‘extensive backlog of untranslated documents’, and justify its request for budget and staff increases. While FBI agents from various field offices were desperately seeking leads and suspects, and completely depending on FBI HQ and its language units to provide them with needed translated information, hundreds of translators were being told by their administrative supervisors not to translate and to let the work pile up (please refer to the CBS-60 Minutes transcript dated October 2002, and provided to your investigators in January-February 2004). This issue has been confirmed by the Senate Judiciary Committee (Please refer to Senator Grassley and Senator Leahy’s letters during the summer of 2002, provided to your investigators in January February 2004).


On to the Bush43 Iraq War, for which 9-11 was used as the justification.

4. Valerie Plame - a genuine CIA agent operating under cover, whose husband Joe Wilson exposed the fraudulent official reasons for the Iraq war. The Bush/Cheney administration responded by outing a CIA agent who was directly involved in tracking & stopping nuclear weapons proliferation.

Her Book, Fair Game ~
http://www.amazon.com/Fair-Game-Betr.../dp/1416537619

The Movie made about Valerie Plame, also called 'Fair Game' ~
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0977855/


5. Lt. Col. Karen Kwiatkowski

Karen U. Kwiatkowski (born September 24, 1960) is a retired U.S. Air Force Lieutenant Colonel whose assignments included duties as a Pentagon desk officer and a variety of roles for the National Security Agency. Since retiring, she has become a noted critic of the U.S. government's involvement in Iraq. Kwiatkowski is primarily known for her insider essays which denounce a corrupting political influence on the course of military intelligence leading up to the invasion of Iraq in 2003.

"Israel Makes Its 'Clean Break'

by Karen Kwiatkowski"

"Many in America oppose the U.S. knee-jerk, unquestioning support for Israel. Many more worry that the Israeli lobby is unusually influential in Washington, while remaining hidden and unaccountable to average Americans. Still others are alarmed that Israel's constant war mentality has become our new American model."
http://www.antiwar.com/orig/kwiatkowski.php?articleid=9306


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/18/karen-kwiatkowski-the-sol_n_92237.html

"Though a lifelong conservative, Kwiatkowski found herself appalled as the radical wing of the Bush administration, including her superiors in the Pentagon planning department, bulldozed internal dissent, overlooked its own intelligence and relentlessly pushed for confrontation with Iraq.

Deeply frustrated and alarmed, Kwiatkowski, still on active duty, took the unusual step of penning an anonymous column of internal Pentagon dissent that was posted on the Internet by former Colonel David Hackworth, America's most decorated veteran."


Kwiatkowski says it straight up - the Pentagon is filled with Israeli spies & other persons loyal to Israel, who guide America's foreign policy, and thereby, America's DOMESTIC policy ~


Spies in the Pentagon?

by Karen Kwiatkowski

"I think of Jonathan Pollard, a case study in poor hiring practices within the federal government and the Defense Department's even poorer supervisory habits. Pollard was also a case study in the delusional and incompetent ideologue who becomes a traitor in the Department of Defense.

More recently, I think of the high clearances granted to publicly and at times, rabidly, pro-Likud past and present political appointees with names like Douglas Feith and Richard Perle, and a host of younger Likudniks who march through the halls of the five-sided asylum to a composition unfamiliar to most Americans. "

http://www.lewrockwell.com/kwiatkowski/kwiatkowski91.html


6. Bradley Manning - A young soldier who leaked raw information about US attacks on journalists & Iraqi civilians.

Not only is the Iraq War based on false justifications, it is being used as a vehicle to execute population reduction measures in Iraq (that's why there's so many Muslims seeking Asylum in Norway & other peaceful European nations.)

Who wants to Genocide Iraq ? Israel, and their supporters in the US government.

"On July 6, 2010, Private Bradley Manning, a 22 year old intelligence analyst with the United States Army in Baghdad, was charged with disclosing this video (after allegedly speaking to an unfaithful journalist). The whistleblower behind the Pentagon Papers, Daniel Ellsberg, has called Mr. Manning a 'hero'. He is currently imprisoned in Kuwait. The Apache crew and those behind the cover up depicted in the video have yet to be charged. To assist Private Manning, please see bradleymanning.org.

5th April 2010 10:44 EST WikiLeaks has released a classified US military video depicting the indiscriminate slaying of over a dozen people in the Iraqi suburb of New Baghdad -- including two Reuters news staff.

Reuters has been trying to obtain the video through the Freedom of Information Act, without success since the time of the attack. The video, shot from an Apache helicopter gun-sight, clearly shows the unprovoked slaying of a wounded Reuters employee and his rescuers. Two young children involved in the rescue were also seriously wounded."

http://www.collateralmurder.com/
http://bradleymanning.org/


In conclusion, 9-11 & the Iraq War are results of Israeli government policy.

If you dis-agree - do you really think you know more than Rowley, Sabrosky, Edmonds & Plame, Kwiatkowski, & Manning ?

How many active-duty Anandtech members will Die for a Lie, during their military "service" in Iraq & Afghanistan ?[/b]


http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0kWAqZxJVE
Amy Goodman interviews Israel Minister Shulamit Aloni -
"Its a trick, we always use it. When from Europe somebody is criticizing Israel then we bring up the Holocaust. When in this country people are criticizing Israel then they are anti-Semitic."

LOL, it appears that wwswimming never learns......
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,164
0
0
The second video is representative of the collective punishment of the state of Israel and the IDF on Palestinians being justified, in this case, not providing even humanitarian aid.

The first one was an example of the punishment in the form of torture.

If you cant find the relation, you just have blinders on.

As for finding videos portraying Palestinians, Arabs, Egypt, Pakistan, Muslims in bad light, numerous ones have been posted, and countless opinions decrying them in the collective have been contributed. Heck, there is a thread right now about Israeli embassy in Egypt overrun, and all of Egypt is held to account. So spare me the "honesty" lecture.

Spare you the honesty lecture, eh? My problem was not with you posting the videos or criticizing Israel, but with the phony question you posed as a pretext for doing so.

You're right, people post videos bashing Palestinians, Arabs, and Muslims. This is a PR war on both sides. And you're just playing your part in it. No need to pretend otherwise.