Just started playing Civ4 BtS...

[Rhezuss]

...and damn now I understand why so many gamers were saying that Civ5 was a diluted game.

52 different Leaders? That I like, lots of options to choose from.
Religions? I'm not a fan of but having the option to choose one in this game is a nice plus. Adds to the multiple civ paths you can take to acieve victory.
Civic? Well done with nice impacts on the gameplay. Love the fact that after changing a Civic you have to endure a revolution before anything take effects.
AI? Didn't played much but the AI seem to know what they're doing. Like in Civ5 I guess. I realised quickly that if I don't have any army to back me up the other Leaders will come at me with pointy sticks and fire arrows.

The only thing is the interface. Coming from Civ5 I find it ugly heheh. But that doesn't break this game at all, it's amazing all you can do and all the paths you can take to your goal. It's clearly the best in the franchise overall and damn glad I finally tried it.

I know this subject been talked and debated a lot but just wanted to chime in and say that those of you I thought were whinny babies...damn you were right!

 

[Anteaus]

It's certainly fair to compare Civ IV and V based on gameplay, but you shouldn't compare the quantity of content because with Civ IV your looking at a game with multiple retail expansions that added alot of substantial content after the initial release.

 

[HydroSqueegee]

the jump from stock Civ4 to Civ4 BtS is HUGE. Civ 5 is still a letdown compared to stock 4.

oh... and religions = $$$$$

 

[QuantumPion]

It's certainly fair to compare Civ IV and V based on gameplay, but you shouldn't compare the quantity of content because with Civ IV your looking at a game with multiple retail expansions that added alot of substantial content after the initial release.

No. Even unpatched vanilla Civ 4 on release was miles ahead of Civ 5 now. Besides, do you really think the Civ 5 developers give a crap to release any meaningful expansions? They will just release more pointless and overpriced "horse armor" DLC.

 

[QuantumPion]

...and damn now I understand why so many gamers were saying that Civ5 was a diluted game.

52 different Leaders? That I like, lots of options to choose from.
Religions? I'm not a fan of but having the option to choose one in this game is a nice plus. Adds to the multiple civ paths you can take to acieve victory.
Civic? Well done with nice impacts on the gameplay. Love the fact that after changing a Civic you have to endure a revolution before anything take effects.
AI? Didn't played much but the AI seem to know what they're doing. Like in Civ5 I guess. I realised quickly that if I don't have any army to back me up the other Leaders will come at me with pointy sticks and fire arrows.

The only thing is the interface. Coming from Civ5 I find it ugly heheh. But that doesn't break this game at all, it's amazing all you can do and all the paths you can take to your goal. It's clearly the best in the franchise overall and damn glad I finally tried it.

I know this subject been talked and debated a lot but just wanted to chime in and say that those of you I thought were whinny babies...damn you were right!

Yeah and you are only beginning to scratch the surface. All those gameplay mechanics like civics, religions, and great people aren't just there for fluff. They have real strategy impacts and can make or break your game. And the AI, while predictable, is never a push-over if you play at your appropriate difficulty level.

 

[Born2bwire]

Yeah, the AI in BtS is pretty aggressive. Lately I have been playing Old World BtS games. I find that I usually prefer to be everybody's buddy and try to expand a colony in the New World as soon as possible. I had a pretty good game going like this, made a good bashing of my Roman neighbors to seize my end of the continent and was rolling out my colony in the New World. Then, all of a sudden, one of the AI's won the diplomacy victory with the Apostolitic Palace. Keep forgetting about that coming from stock Civ4. The other time I wasn't being mindful of alliances and agreed to declare war to curry some diplomacy points with a neighbor. The enemy in question was on the other side of the continent so I figured I could ride out the war without having to do any fighting and just get instant diplomacy. Turns out that guy was good friends with the other large faction and suddenly I'm at war with three other countries.

It's a step up in difficulty and complexity from vanilla Civ4. I still need to be more mindful about spies.

 

[Rhezuss]

YEah, only playing on Warlord difficulty (i'm a newb even though I played all Civs) and I have to watch everything I do...love it!

 

[Mandres]

Civ4 is awesome. I never did play any of the expansions, but the vanilla game kept me busy for months on end. I should go reinstall it now.

 

[Born2bwire]

YEah, only playing on Warlord difficulty (i'm a newb even though I played all Civs) and I have to watch everything I do...love it!

Yeah, on vanilla Civ4 I've made the move to Prince, but I'm still going 50-50 on Noble in BtS. I don't think I'll master Prince though. I just do not have the interest in that much planning and micromanagement to be successful enough. I will go as far as to plan ahead for the amount of farms/food, but I still have some trouble with specializing cities appropriately (specifically manufacturing), properly prioritizing builds (I'll focus on the builds to specialize my cities but once those are done I am still apt to build the buildings that are not part of their specializing), and my progression through the tech tree is still mostly haphazard (I still do not have a good grasp on what I should be going for and when other than for the overarcing stuff of shipbuilding for colonizing and rifling for Riflemen).

Civ4 is awesome. I never did play any of the expansions, but the vanilla game kept me busy for months on end. I should go reinstall it now.

BtS is great just for the Trebuchet unit alone. There is a big gap between catapults and cannons in vanilla that needed to be filled. Otherwise, you have to stack so many catapults to bring down a large city's defenses. I'm still not sold on spies though because I hate diverting resources to it and I am too timid to risk the diplomacy hits when using them often enough.

 

[QuantumPion]

great strategy guide for beginners: http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=304506&d=1318900276

 

[QuantumPion]

Yeah, on vanilla Civ4 I've made the move to Prince, but I'm still going 50-50 on Noble in BtS. I don't think I'll master Prince though. I just do not have the interest in that much planning and micromanagement to be successful enough. I will go as far as to plan ahead for the amount of farms/food, but I still have some trouble with specializing cities appropriately (specifically manufacturing), properly prioritizing builds (I'll focus on the builds to specialize my cities but once those are done I am still apt to build the buildings that are not part of their specializing), and my progression through the tech tree is still mostly haphazard (I still do not have a good grasp on what I should be going for and when other than for the overarcing stuff of shipbuilding for colonizing and rifling for Riflemen).



BtS is great just for the Trebuchet unit alone. There is a big gap between catapults and cannons in vanilla that needed to be filled. Otherwise, you have to stack so many catapults to bring down a large city's defenses. I'm still not sold on spies though because I hate diverting resources to it and I am too timid to risk the diplomacy hits when using them often enough.

Spies are great for taking down city defenses so you can rapidly capture cities with e.g. 2-movement cavalry without having to wait to siege cities. Spies are also very nice for taking back tiles lost due to culture pressing, such as when a neighbor puts a city right on your border and steals your good tiles. You can use spies to spread culture to get the land back (and maybe even the city too).

 

[Rhezuss]

I'll be damned...after over 5 hours of gameplay I just realised that I have to connect my ressources (wheat, rice, copper, gold, etc) with roads to gain access to them and get their bonuses...

Wow...

 

[QuantumPion]

I'll be damned...after over 5 hours of gameplay I just realised that I have to connect my ressources (wheat, rice, copper, gold, etc) with roads to gain access to them and get their bonuses...

Wow...

In addition you have to connect roads between your cities, and from your empire to your neighbors, in order to have trade routes. Also rivers act as roads for hooking up resources and cities.

 

[Born2bwire]

Spies are great for taking down city defenses so you can rapidly capture cities with e.g. 2-movement cavalry without having to wait to siege cities. Spies are also very nice for taking back tiles lost due to culture pressing, such as when a neighbor puts a city right on your border and steals your good tiles. You can use spies to spread culture to get the land back (and maybe even the city too).

Dang, I had no idea that I could do a cultural attack with spies. One of my favorite games that I have read about was "Passive-Aggressive Hatty." In this setup, you had to win a domination game without conquering any territory. So the whole game is a race to dominate the world using only cultural expansion.

 

[Rhezuss]

In addition you have to connect roads between your cities, and from your empire to your neighbors, in order to have trade routes. Also rivers act as roads for hooking up resources and cities.

Yeah I already knew this concept and I connect my cities ASAP after I improved critical tiles.

But connecting ressources, that missed me by a mile.

Other thing, how does the Vote thing works? Every few turns there's a vote call to elect someone for something, not really sure what it do...

BTW thanks for the great guide, i'll keep it near.

 

[Possessed Freak]

the jump from stock Civ4 to Civ4 BtS is HUGE. Civ 5 is still a letdown compared to stock 4.

oh... and religions = $$$$$

Start as many religions in one city as you can get, start multiple corps in that same city, build wall street there... don't worry about money ever again.

 

[QuantumPion]

Start as many religions in one city as you can get, start multiple corps in that same city, build wall street there... don't worry about money ever again.

On easy difficulties it can be fun to make a super gold city like that but on higher difficulties its a terrible strategy. You want the AI's to have different religions so they are fighting each other, instead of united in one religion against you!

 

[QuantumPion]

Yeah I already knew this concept and I connect my cities ASAP after I improved critical tiles.

But connecting ressources, that missed me by a mile.

Other thing, how does the Vote thing works? Every few turns there's a vote call to elect someone for something, not really sure what it do...

BTW thanks for the great guide, i'll keep it near.

There are two voting institutions - the apostolic palace and the united nations. Whomever builds either one gets to vote on different resolutions (they are listed in the victory conditions page). The votes in the apostolic palace are based on religion, the UN just by population. It is possible to win the game (diplomatic victory) by proposing that resolution and getting enough people to vote for you. Other than that there are other resolutions you can vote on (like getting all the Buddhist nations to declare war on all the Hindu nations, or outlawing nuclear weapons, etc).

 

[Born2bwire]

There are two voting institutions - the apostolic palace and the united nations. Whomever builds either one gets to vote on different resolutions (they are listed in the victory conditions page). The votes in the apostolic palace are based on religion, the UN just by population. It is possible to win the game (diplomatic victory) by proposing that resolution and getting enough people to vote for you. Other than that there are other resolutions you can vote on (like getting all the Buddhist nations to declare war on all the Hindu nations, or outlawing nuclear weapons, etc).

The winner of the vote to lead the AP/UN gets to choose the regulations that are brought up to a vote. In choosing the leader, there is a vote between two candidates and the builder of the AP/UN is one of the candidates. I can't remember how the other candidate is chosen, population maybe? The AP is restricted to members of the builder's religion but the UN is open and affects everybody.

EDIT: Leaders need a majority vote (or, thinking about it, it must be a plurality since people can abstain) while diplomatic victories require 2/3 of the vote.

 

[StinkyPinky]

Civ 4 BTS is the best in the series imho. The AI is aggressive and the gameplay enjoyable.

I've been playing Civ 5 again lately...it aint a bad game but it's not in the same class as Civ 4 BTS. Would be nice if Civ 5 got a real expansion rather than lame ass DLCs but that will never happen.

 

[Hoober]

Civ 5 was a complete joke when compared to the Civ 4 franchise.

 

[Rhezuss]

I'm getting my derrière kicked hard in Warlord. Everything was going pretty well, had many good standings with most Civs but out of nowhere Charlemagne attacks me?!?!!? He grabs one of my border city but I manage to get it back in a few turns.

Then the UN vote to force Charly to stpo war with me. From that point I was like "Nice, the world love me". Couple of turns later, another Civ (can't recall) declares war and then Catherine...

Think i'll just restart and play more wisely...

Love this game!

 

[hardhat]

The key to avoiding war is to be friendly with your neighbors. It isn't very common for leaders to invade if they don't share a border with each other. Get open borders, shared religion, adopt their favorite civic, do resource trades, gift them a couple techs, etc. The other thing to consider is AI personality. Pretty much no matter what you do, Shaka and Monty are gonna come for you if you're near by. On the other hand, you can treat Darius or Elizabeth like crap and they'll cower in their cities.

Of course, the best deterrant of all is having a giant army (look at the graphs and compare power), or sic your buddies on them first!

Civ BTS is such a great game.

 

[Bateluer]

Think Civ5 will ever get an expansion? Or just more DLC? It cratered pretty bad.

 

[lothar]

WHEOOHRN!!!
Damn you Monty.