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Just saw Peter Arnett on Iraq TV

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figgypower

Senior member
Jan 1, 2001
247
0
0
LOL!

This is hilarious! I mean people, really, just step back, cool off - and read this a little. The truth is that sandorski, you're just as much an extremist as NightTrain, etc. It's just NightTrain has more buddies, so he may seem like the "real" extremist side. Not true at all! Sandorski is just as much an extremist - you gotta admit, you're just outright ignoring some of the facts. Sure the protests might be growing. NightTrain and buddies, you gotta admit those protests are there and growing.

As for Peter Arnett, he's just some sleazy reporter! I mean come on... some of the things he's saying is downright ridiculous! Sure, some of it (i.e. no censorship) maybe true, but it's TOTALLY taken out of context. Why censor someone who's making you look good? Does that mean that the Iraqis are not hostile to other reporters? Forget FoxNews and their worthless drivel, what about everyone else who isn't an Arab news network? I guess they were ALL American agents! Even more ironic, recently a Kuwaiti group got kicked out - I guess they're American agents, too! They barely escaped with their lives! Yes, they were help capitve. I guess that's why Bush is so frustrated with the media coverage... it's SO pro-coalition that it drives him nuts!

Failure, 11 days into a war? Holy crap! Under this definition of "failure" everyone has failed every single war since the beginning of time! Now, no one even knows the plan, but ignoring that fact: to have such a rigid and unflexible plan is just stupid! Part of the plan is to be able to ditch the plan! And has it changed... unless you know a few key Pentagon officials, I doubt you know if it has. "They're trying to write another war plan," what?! "Failure," may have been the wrong word to use, but wow, that whole last sentence was wrong. We must be getting our butts annihilated! Hm... oh that's right, we're facing unexpected resistance...

And the protests, come on - why not? It's everybody's time to take a shot at America... China's FIRST ever government-sanction protest! That's pretty anti-American. However, MANY people are doing it for ethical and moral reasons; not because they're evil and un-American. War is a scary thing... one of my Marine buddies (now in Iraq) used to say "We prepare for war, but pray for peace..." Maybe they've decided that war isn't justified in their opinion, and wow, they're being good Americans and exercising their freedom of speech! Hitting a soldier in uniform, being unruly, disturbing the peace is not freedom of speech - but you have a right to protest peacefully! That IS American.

Does Peter Arnett deserve a hanging or revoking of his citizenship? Well, I can say that the citizenship revoking thing, the whole "banishment" deal, is not exactly done in modern times. You can't just revoke his citizenship. As for hanging? No way! Not unless it's a capital crime and it's been through the court systems. Even then... let's not become fanatical! Remembers, terrorists are rabid fanatics gone mad; hanging people left and right is a step closer to that reality.

So, what do we make of Peter Arnett? He's dying for attention, why give it to him?

Let's compromise people... now is no time to fight each other when the enemy is in front of us. :)
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
68,485
3,596
126
Figgypower: Arnett said that the Plan has failed, not the war.

Extremist? I don't think I am, but the others probably don't either, so I suppose it's somewhat of a moot point. ;)
 

Insane3D

Elite Member
May 24, 2000
19,446
0
0
Originally posted by: sandorski
Figgypower: Arnett said that the Plan has failed, not the war.

Extremist? I don't think I am, but the others probably don't either, so I suppose it's somewhat of a moot point. ;)
I would say from the posts I've read of yours, you are no extremist. :)

For what it is worth. :)
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: NightTrain
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: NightTrain
Originally posted by: sandorski
How has he sold out anyone? It's not as if the Iraqi leadership is blind to the rest of the world. Al Jazeera, CNN, BBC, and any other Global News source is likely monitored religiously.
26 million Iraqis are being told the US has failed by an American journalist. I don't think we are over there to libertate the Iraqi leadership.
No, he said the original plan failed. If the US had failed, they'd be leaving Iraq as we speak/type.
I won't even bother with his opinion of our progress or his knowledge of what our military planners had in mind.

The point that you don't seem to grasp is that there are 26 million people in Iraq who don't trust us to remove a brutal dictator that routinely executes anyone who challenges him. Making that populace believe we have failed (the distinction you draw matters little to the Iraqi people afraid for their lives and watching Saddam's henchmen already swaggering in the glow of victory) is not only a lie..but it is one that can only lead to more US casualties. It strengthens the resolve of those against us and the despair of those who want us to succeed.

It has been suggested that Arnett may be under duress:

Doesn't sound like it to me

"They're requiring no censorship at all. ... There are no minders around us when we broadcast. I'm sitting here in the hotel and ... we can talk on the phone freely," Arnett said.

Shame on anyone who defends scum like Arnett.
Shame? A little dramatic. He has not lied, he has not provided information that isn't readily available or obvious. His crime seems to be that he hasn't been Pro-Coalition enough. All in all, he has remained neutral.
He has lied.

1. He cited growing protests about the war plan. Untrue.

2. He said the original plan had failed and a new one is being made. Untrue.

Need any further proof? The man has been discredited over and over again. Is anyone really shocked that he has done this? He did the same thing in Vietnam, the Gulf War, Laos, and now this. Enough is enough....he is giving aid to the enemy and should be tried for treason.
1) they are not?
2) it is?

Those 2 points are a matter of opinion, not fact. An Opinion can't be a lie.
Those are facts....not opinions. Tell me....how has the original plan failed. Oh I guess if you want to call the fact that they moved to the outskirts of Baghdad faster than they thought a failure then yes, it has been a failure. As for the growing protests over the war plan. I haven't heard of any.....if there are some then it's because the people doing it are ignorant of the plan or how a military operation works.
Protests: Besides the daily protests in the US, Canada, Britain, and Europe, Egypt has been forced(protest is illegal) to allow protests. China is in a similar situation as Egypt. Protests are occuring throughout Asia, Central and South America, Australia, Indonesia.

Plan failure: Um Qasr and Basra offered fierce resistance, they were supposed to fold at the sight of the Coalition forces. All other cities between them and Baghdad remain under Iraqi control. Yes, the Coalition reached their position outside of Baghdad more-or-less as scheduled, but they are insufficient(waiting for reinforcements) and supplies are low. Supply lines are not secure and need more forces. This can certainly be considered a failure of the original plan.
So when did Franks let you see the plan?

Can you show me where there are widespread shortages on the front lines?

Can you show me where releif aid is not reaching Basrah and other cities in Iraq?

Can you show me where the 4thID was not planned to show up before the shooting started?

Can you show me where Franks did not mention a rolling start a few weeks ago?

I know you have no clue as to what the original plan was.

Are you going to respond to any of my questions sandorski?
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: sandorski
Arnett has just apologized in an interview on the Today Show.
It is too late. I am sure he only apologized because his job was on the line.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,302
9
81
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: sandorski
Arnett has just apologized in an interview on the Today Show.
It is too late. I am sure he only apologized because his job was on the line.
My apologies if this has already been mentioned, given that I haven't read this entire thread. MSNBC just now read a statement from NBC stating the following:

"It was wrong for Mr. Arnett to grant an interview to state controlled Iraqi TV -- especially at a time of war -- and it was wrong for him to discuss his personal observations and opinions in that interview. Therefore, Peter Arnett will no longer be reporting for NBC News and MSNBC."

In other words, YOU'RE FIRED, Mr. Arnett..
 

NightTrain

Platinum Member
Apr 1, 2001
2,150
0
76
Originally posted by: Astaroth33

"It was wrong for Mr. Arnett to grant an interview to state controlled Iraqi TV -- especially at a time of war
Not "especially" but "because".

It is wrong for an American to be sitting with the enemy and spreading propaganda for them. It's really just that simple.

Let him apologize all he wants...as long as he stays over there.



 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
0
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: sandorski
Arnett has just apologized in an interview on the Today Show.
It is too late. I am sure he only apologized because his job was on the line.
My apologies if this has already been mentioned, given that I haven't read this entire thread. MSNBC just now read a statement from NBC stating the following:

"It was wrong for Mr. Arnett to grant an interview to state controlled Iraqi TV -- especially at a time of war -- and it was wrong for him to discuss his personal observations and opinions in that interview. Therefore, Peter Arnett will no longer be reporting for NBC News and MSNBC."

In other words, YOU'RE FIRED, Mr. Arnett..

A reporter is supposed to report on events, not be a part of them or make the news. NBC made the right choice in releasing him.
 

ToBeMe

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2000
5,711
0
0
Originally posted by: sandorski
Arnett has just apologized in an interview on the Today Show.
And promptly set free of his employment with NBC/MSNBC....................
 

Murphyrulez

Golden Member
Mar 24, 2001
1,890
0
0
On a side note, not sure if this was mentioned, Geraldo Rivera has been kicked out of Iraq by the US Military, for divulging secret war plans on the air live. He drew a map in the sand of where his division was going to be going next.

Very nice. Are these guys working for the enemy?
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,302
9
81
Originally posted by: Murphyrulez
On a side note, not sure if this was mentioned, Geraldo Rivera has been kicked out of Iraq by the US Military, for divulging secret war plans on the air live. He drew a map in the sand of where his division was going to be going next.

Very nice. Are these guys working for the enemy?
Wow, first I've heard of that; any links to that yet? When did this happen?

And no, I'm not surprised at all. Geraldo is an idiot.
 

shiner

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
17,116
0
0
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: NightTrain
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: NightTrain
Originally posted by: sandorski
How has he sold out anyone? It's not as if the Iraqi leadership is blind to the rest of the world. Al Jazeera, CNN, BBC, and any other Global News source is likely monitored religiously.
26 million Iraqis are being told the US has failed by an American journalist. I don't think we are over there to libertate the Iraqi leadership.
No, he said the original plan failed. If the US had failed, they'd be leaving Iraq as we speak/type.
I won't even bother with his opinion of our progress or his knowledge of what our military planners had in mind.

The point that you don't seem to grasp is that there are 26 million people in Iraq who don't trust us to remove a brutal dictator that routinely executes anyone who challenges him. Making that populace believe we have failed (the distinction you draw matters little to the Iraqi people afraid for their lives and watching Saddam's henchmen already swaggering in the glow of victory) is not only a lie..but it is one that can only lead to more US casualties. It strengthens the resolve of those against us and the despair of those who want us to succeed.

It has been suggested that Arnett may be under duress:

Doesn't sound like it to me

"They're requiring no censorship at all. ... There are no minders around us when we broadcast. I'm sitting here in the hotel and ... we can talk on the phone freely," Arnett said.

Shame on anyone who defends scum like Arnett.
Shame? A little dramatic. He has not lied, he has not provided information that isn't readily available or obvious. His crime seems to be that he hasn't been Pro-Coalition enough. All in all, he has remained neutral.
He has lied.

1. He cited growing protests about the war plan. Untrue.

2. He said the original plan had failed and a new one is being made. Untrue.

Need any further proof? The man has been discredited over and over again. Is anyone really shocked that he has done this? He did the same thing in Vietnam, the Gulf War, Laos, and now this. Enough is enough....he is giving aid to the enemy and should be tried for treason.
1) they are not?
2) it is?

Those 2 points are a matter of opinion, not fact. An Opinion can't be a lie.
Those are facts....not opinions. Tell me....how has the original plan failed. Oh I guess if you want to call the fact that they moved to the outskirts of Baghdad faster than they thought a failure then yes, it has been a failure. As for the growing protests over the war plan. I haven't heard of any.....if there are some then it's because the people doing it are ignorant of the plan or how a military operation works.
Protests: Besides the daily protests in the US, Canada, Britain, and Europe, Egypt has been forced(protest is illegal) to allow protests. China is in a similar situation as Egypt. Protests are occuring throughout Asia, Central and South America, Australia, Indonesia.

Plan failure: Um Qasr and Basra offered fierce resistance, they were supposed to fold at the sight of the Coalition forces. All other cities between them and Baghdad remain under Iraqi control. Yes, the Coalition reached their position outside of Baghdad more-or-less as scheduled, but they are insufficient(waiting for reinforcements) and supplies are low. Supply lines are not secure and need more forces. This can certainly be considered a failure of the original plan.
Oh sure there are anti-war protests going on and there have been since before the war, but what Arnett said was that growing protest over the failure of the war plan are taking place. That is untrue.

You might want to look up the meaning of maneuver warfare. It was never in the plan to take those Southern cities...the target has always been Baghdad. bypassing cities is nothing new, we did the same thing all across Europe as we moved toward Berlin in WWII.
 

jjones

Lifer
Oct 9, 2001
15,425
1
0
Originally posted by: Murphyrulez
On a side note, not sure if this was mentioned, Geraldo Rivera has been kicked out of Iraq by the US Military, for divulging secret war plans on the air live. He drew a map in the sand of where his division was going to be going next.

Very nice. Are these guys working for the enemy?
Are you serious? It's nice Geraldo was kicked out of Iraq but I'd like to see him kicked elsewhere too. A healthy boot to the 'nads would suffice.

 

shiner

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
17,116
0
0
Originally posted by: Murphyrulez
On a side note, not sure if this was mentioned, Geraldo Rivera has been kicked out of Iraq by the US Military, for divulging secret war plans on the air live. He drew a map in the sand of where his division was going to be going next.

Very nice. Are these guys working for the enemy?
Man if that's true he's even dumber than I thought. Guess it's back to opening vaults for you Geraldo.

 

Tates

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 25, 2000
9,079
10
81
National Geographic fires Peter Arnett
The National Geographic has terminated the service of Peter Arnett. The Society did not authorize or have any prior knowledge of Arnett's televsion interview with Iraqi television, an had we been consulted we would not have allowed it. His decision to grant an interview and express his personal views on state-controlled Iraqi television, especially during a time of war, was a serious error in judgement and was wrong.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
0
Originally posted by: Tates
National Geographic fires Peter Arnett
The National Geographic has terminated the service of Peter Arnett. The Society did not authorize or have any prior knowledge of Arnett's televsion interview with Iraqi television, an had we been consulted we would not have allowed it. His decision to grant an interview and express his personal views on state-controlled Iraqi television, especially during a time of war, was a serious error in judgement and was wrong.
Last night as I watched Fox News everytime this story was reported the Fox Anchor mentioned that Arnett had worked ofr CNN. I wonder if they are now talking about their own Geraldo Rivera getting the Heave Ho from Iraq for violating the rules.

 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
I just don't get how you can claim a flexible plan has "failed".
 

duke

Golden Member
Nov 22, 1999
1,240
0
0
Is/was Arnett the last western "journalist" inside Baghdad at the moment?
 

tboo

Diamond Member
Jun 25, 2000
7,627
1
81
I wonder if they are now talking about their own Geraldo Rivera getting the Heave Ho from Iraq for violating the rules.
That was a rumor-he didnt get yanked. I just saw him on Fox with some troops in the field-he said they were very close to Baghdad.
 

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