Just nostalgia, or do you think new parents these days really are worse than yours were?

[StageLeft]

Anybody who's been around young kids these days knows that a great many of them have no real discipline. They run amok, doing what they want, and their parents are disinterested in really commanding respect or instituting guidelines. I've seen adults try to negotiate with a four year old and other such things. I know a woman with a two and four year old and they are decent kids but she has no control over them. Her "no" is repeated ad tedium and the children rightly know that there are no repercussions to disobedience.

Why are parents like this? I know that their parents probably weren't like it. Myself and all of the people I grew up with had real boundaries and if we broke them we got in trouble. We knew it, and at our age that trouble was tangible. Given this fact, why is it that a child who grew up with good discipline becomes such a sh*ty parent? Or, is there no real trend here and I'm just looking at things on too small a basis to realize that?

 

[Leper Messiah]

Becuase everyone exepcts that the schools are going to do everything for them. And, a lot of parents just don't care, too busy, etc.

 

[raystorm]

Well..kids these days have more distractions than ever before and they probably learn most of what they know from them. I grew up in the 80's when MTV and video games were just starting and now you have so much stuff such as cell phones, internet, online gaming (such as rpg's), 200+ tv channels...etc.

Also some folks are just not meant to be parents but have kids anyways. How about those that have kids when they make little money or have no education and have to work 2 jobs and barely see their kids? I do think kids these days are much worse compared to the time of my youth and some of the language I hear (as well as the poor broken english) is insane. ....maybe I'm just getting older...

 

[mike2fix]

You are certainly correct about the lack of discipline with kids today. I blame it on the "warm & fuzzy" attitude that is prevalent in society today. I do not advocate child abuse, but a good whack on the ass can do wonders for a little one. Time out.....give me a break.

 

[Drekce]

I agree with you Skoorb, and as a new parent myself (3 weeks ago) I have vowed to to be a pain in the butt to my child.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: raystorm
Well..kids these days have more distractions than ever before and they probably learn most of what they know from them. I grew up in the 80's when MTV and video games were just starting and now you have so much stuff such as cell phones, internet, online gaming (such as rpg's), 200+ tv channels...etc.

Also some folks are just not meant to be parents but have kids anyways. How about those that have kids when they make little money or have no education and have to work 2 jobs and barely see their kids? I do think kids these days are much worse compared to the time of my youth and some of the language I hear (as well as the poor broken english) is insane. ....maybe I'm just getting older...

Lots of incompetent people have always had kids, though! I do think a lot is TV. When I was younger, of course I watched it, but not to the same degree and it really forced my parents to be more interactive. Now I think it's really easy to get one's child out of their hair, because video games/tv do it well.

However, I'm also talking about really young kids who don't care as much about games. The two year old I mentioned in my first post doesn't spend any time in front of the tv, the mom is home all day, and yet the child still has zero discipline. I'm assured by the mother I'll be the same way and "she used to say the same thing as me" to which I incessantly retort "Somehow I don't think my parents would have put up with that", and they wouldn't have, and neither will I.

 

[Leper Messiah]

its the liberals saying you can't smack your kids.

Also, a lot of parents aren't really around, we farm out raising our kids to the schools, to day care, to anyone who'll do it, 'cause parents are so busy running the treadmill of life. From about nine years old on, I basically raised my self, because my dad was working 70 hrs a week trying to pay off the million dollar hospital bill that my mom racked up when she had brain cancer.

 

[purbeast0]

i think its a mixture of two things.

1. Now a days, typically both parents (atleast where I live because cost of living is expensive) have to work for the family to make it, which in turn means that parents aren't around as much. When i was younger (before my parents split up) my mom was not working and was always home after school and in the summer to help raise me and my siblings. Now a days, the parents just aren't around as much because of the need to make $$ to support the family w/the higher cost of living.

2. People are scared to "enforce" their children, and by that I don't mean beat the crap out of them, but I mean just hit em on the butt with a belt or a wooden spoon or something. Now a days if a parent does that, they can go to jail, which is utter crap.

I don't condone violence or anything, but smacking your kid here and there to re-enforce not to do bad things is no harm. I took some smackings when I was growing up and as much as I hated it when it happened, i definitely know it was for the better.

EDIT: and also people are having kids before they are financially ready to do so, as well as mentally ready to do so, resulting in them not caring or having to get 2nd jobs to make just enough $$$ to support the family, kind of like my first point above.

 

[FoBoT]

most parents today have zero discipline over their children

they either want to be their kids "friend" or they are too busy with carreer so they let the kids rule the house

we need to get back to good old fashioned whipping them with belts behind the wood shed kind of discipline

 

[CPA]

Because many parents today probably used to think "I'm not going to treat my kids like my parents treat me" when they were teens. Lo and behold, after years of that type of thinking, laws on the books taking discipline away from parents and an education system that teaches tolerance and self-esteem are priority no. 1, it's no wonder parents are that way.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: Drekce
I agree with you Skoorb, and as a new parent myself (3 weeks ago) I have vowed to to be a pain in the butt to my child.

That type of attitude needs to be much more prevalent in today's society. Parents really need to get rid of the "I want to be your friend first" attitude. I tell my kids "I'm not your friend, I'm your father first and formost".

 

[Horus]

If my kid (when I get 'em) does something bad, he'll get a whack on the bottom. I don't care. That's how I was raised and diciplined, and it worked.

I'll also teach my kids to not take any crap, and that if he gets into a fight, don't start it, but ALWAYS finish it. I took everything that could be thrown at me, and I'm stronger for it, but there's no way in hell I'm gonna put my kids through that.

Also, one thing I've noticed these days, is that younger kids have NO manners. No please, thank you, may I....all just gimmegimmegimme. If there's one thing my kids are going to hate me for, it's going to be that I'm a stickler for manners. Proper table manners are KEY for me. Am I anal retentive? Maybe. But the way I was brought up, and my manners have impressed every family I've ever met.

 

[StageLeft]

I think most of the points here are valid, but my own parents both worked a lot and I was infrequently spanked by my dad and yet all of my siblings and I still knew full well not to be bad, because when dad got home the sh*t would hit the fan. We did act less ruly around my mom, but even if she had to threaten she'd tell dad it would have some influence on us

I think too many parents give too much credit to their kids. You don't negotiate with a child. If they ask wy something is how it is you explain it to them, but you don't argue and debate with them, because you're the adult and what you say goes. I am not sure why so many adults think that a child's mental capacities are congruous to their own; kids are impulsive and although not stupid, they're still going to do what makes them feel good at the time.

 

[meltdown75]

i got my ass whooped all the time when i was a kid, and i'll probably smack my kids if i ever have any.

didn't necessarily translate into my parents being "good" per se.

i'm going to have to say parents today tend to let their kids run a little more wild than before, but their wildness is also a product of the environment. the world's a crazier place these days. i think kids need more smacks to keep them in check.

 

[bigdog1218]

My cousin is a firm believer that the downfall of society will be the result of women moving into the workplace, mainly because the "family" is being replaced with a grouping of people who happen to live in one place. He wasn't being sexist in saying it, just that now most households don't have any central figure, male or female, running the house. Everyones just worried about their careers.

 

[FoBoT]

another problem is US public schools or something is giving kids the idea that life should be "Fair"

that word is taboo in my house, nothing is fair about life and my kids need to learn that early

if they try to play the "that isn't fair" game, they lose big time

 

[purbeast0]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I think most of the points here are valid, but my own parents both worked a lot and I was infrequently spanked by my dad and yet all of my siblings and I still knew full well not to be bad, because when dad got home the sh*t would hit the fan. We did act less ruly around my mom, but even if she had to threaten she'd tell dad it would have some influence on us

I think too many parents give too much credit to their kids. You don't negotiate with a child. If they ask wy something is how it is you explain it to them, but you don't argue and debate with them, because you're the adult and what you say goes. I am not sure why so many adults think that a child's mental capacities are congruous to their own; kids are impulsive and although not stupid, they're still going to do what makes them feel good at the time.

I was like that too. My dad left when I was like 7 or 8 years old and my mom had to go back to work 9-5 and in the summers I would have a baby sitter and stuff. However let me ask you this ... how old were you when you got your first job?

I was 14 starting my sophomore year in HS when I had my first job, and kept that same job (while working other jobs simultaneously in the summers in the later years) all the way until i graduated college last may and into the September month of 2004 until I landed my full time job. I worked at the same place from being 14 years old until I was 22.

i REALLY think that getting a job early in life helped my discipline a lot, as well as teaching me a lot of responsibility. Too many of these little punks are spoiiled now a days and don't appreciate anything their parents bought them. I personally think its ridiculous for people to go into college and never had a job, thats just pretty sad.

I grew up in private schools so I saw this crap all the time and now quite a few "friends" from HS are the biggest losers known to man.

 

[kranky]

There's no question in my mind that kids today are much more ill-behaved. I won't blame TV, two working parents, or any other cultural change - I blame the parents.

I have quite a few friends with very well behaved kids. Some have working mothers, some don't. But what they all have in common is a commitment to raising their kids right. It's easier to give the kid a candy bar when he's screaming for one in the grocery store, but it's not the right thing to do. Parents have to do what's necessary, not what is easy for them.

Those friends have told me more than once that if I ever see their kids doing something wrong, dangerous, etc. I have their permission to take whatever action I feel necessary. The funny thing is that I would like to have that permission from the parents of the brats, and I won't ever have to discipline the good kids. They are good kids whether their parents are there or not.

 

[StageLeft]

However let me ask you this ... how old were you when you got your first job?

Well I had a cushy job given to me when I was 19, via nepotism. In fact I've never had to work a "hard" job, except doing bits and pieces of manual labour. My older brother, who's the least disciplined of us all, started working when he was 16. I think it can be of benefit, like you mentioned, but there are some exceptions

 

[Leper Messiah]

Alot of it is the pervalent culture of our society. Everyone is so worried about getting what their's that it gets to the kids too.

 

[StageLeft]

There's no question in my mind that kids today are much more ill-behaved. I won't blame TV, two working parents, or any other cultural change - I blame the parents.

What's changed to make people suck with discipline, though?

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: FoBoT
another problem is US public schools or something is giving kids the idea that life should be "Fair"

that word is taboo in my house, nothing is fair about life and my kids need to learn that early

if they try to play the "that isn't fair" game, they lose big time

Heh, my older one has been big on "that isn't fair" lately. I say, yeah, you're right, it's not. So?

 

[Aftermath]

Originally posted by: bigdog1218
My cousin is a firm believer that the downfall of society will be the result of women moving into the workplace, mainly because the "family" is being replaced with a grouping of people who happen to live in one place. He wasn't being sexist in saying it, just that now most households don't have any central figure, male or female, running the house. Everyones just worried about their careers.

I agree with your cousin.I'm not sexist, I don't think women should immediately drop their careers and go on to be moms, but I think there needs to be one person at home to be a parent and a home maker. Someone to get a good breakfast down the kids throats in the morning, maintain the house throughout the day, welcome the kids home, make a nice healthy family dinner..

I hate how so many families work. Throw the kids out the door in the morning with a couple of poptarts and a $5 bill for food so mom and dad aren't late for work. Come home in the early evening to their children who have been unsupervised and had the run of the house for the past several hours. Throw a bag of McDonalds at the kids because there's not enough time to bother with actually preparing a meal. Let them get away with murder because both parents are exhausted from their own busy day.

I think having a parent home all day to actually take care of the house and family leads to a more nuturing, stable, healthy, environment. I'm not saying all families with two working parents work out like that second scenario, but in my experience, a lot of them do. I think one person in a marriage becoming a home maker (or house wife/husband) is just one of the sacrafices that comes with the whole experience of having children. That's life.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Aftermath

Originally posted by: bigdog1218
My cousin is a firm believer that the downfall of society will be the result of women moving into the workplace, mainly because the "family" is being replaced with a grouping of people who happen to live in one place. He wasn't being sexist in saying it, just that now most households don't have any central figure, male or female, running the house. Everyones just worried about their careers.

I agree with your cousin.I'm not sexist, I don't think women should immediately drop their careers and go on to be moms, but I think there needs to be one person at home to be a parent and a home maker. Someone to get a good breakfast down the kids throats in the morning, maintain the house throughout the day, welcome the kids home, make a nice healthy family dinner..

I hate how so many families work. Throw the kids out the door in the morning with a couple of poptarts and a $5 bill for food so mom and dad aren't late for work. Come home in the early evening to their children who have been unsupervised and had the run of the house for the past several hours. Throw a bag of McDonalds at the kids because there's not enough time to bother with actually preparing a meal. Let them get away with murder because both parents are exhausted from their own busy day.

I think having a parent home all day to actually take care of the house and family leads to a more nuturing, stable, healthy, environment. I'm not saying all families with two working parents work out like that second scenario, but in my experience, a lot of them do. I think one person in a marriage becoming a home maker (or house wife/husband) is just one of the sacrafices that comes with the whole experience of having children. That's life.

You're right, except the woman in my first post is ahome maker and the atmosphere is still just like that They eat what they want during the day and fast food often for supper because they can't be bothered to force the kids to eat something other than carbs/fat.

 

[Aftermath]

You're right, except the woman in my first post is ahome maker and the atmosphere is still just like that They eat what they want during the day and fast food often for supper because they can't be bothered to force the kids to eat something other than carbs/fat.

Sorry, I kind of got off on my own rant about the subject. (I recently became a house husband with the birth of my daughter. My wife is employed through the military, complete with benefits and job security.)

But as to your OP, IMO the lack of control comes from kids looking back on their parents and thinking about how wayyy too strict they were. "I think too many parents give too much credit to their kids. You don't negotiate with a child." That's spot on IMO. They try to reason with their kids, explain things to them, display the logic as to why rules are rules or why "no" means "no." But a childs brain doesn't work like an adults does. They don't understand the world like an adult does. Being a parent is as much about guidance and teaching as anything else, but sometimes kids don't need to know why "no" means "no", they just need to understand that it does in fact, mean "no."

I think most new-age parents simply stop the process after "NO!" and "Time-out" fail to work. The kids know nothing really bad is going to happen. So the parents feeble attempts at dicipline fall on deaf ears and the kids are left with unprecidented levels of freedom. Kids need something to happen (or to happen TO them) that makes them stop and think, "Oh crap, I don't want THAT.. I better knock it off.." It doesn't need to be a pants-down-over-the-knee-bare-butt-with-a-wooden-paddle-with-speed-holes kind of thing, but the kids should respect their parents' rules. If they don't, the parents are a failure and probably need to smack their kids around a bit. A spanking is NOT abuse, it's punishment for doing something wrong. Too bad in todays society, if you slap your kid on the butt in a public place with his pants up, you stand a chance of having that kid taken away from you and spending some time in a cellblock.