Just me, or are teachers teaching LESS?

[Coldkilla]

Professor's/Schools paid high dollar to teach...

From online courses, to lectures taken directly from books with no new information... I do not generalize all teachers/professors/schools.. but this is a harsh reality.. no?


Your thoughts?

 

[Canai]

Now they just try to teach whats covered in standardized tests, instead of broadening student's perspectives, teachers narrow them to try to get the best test result scores.

EDIT: professers have lots of papers / tests to grade, adn it's easier on them if they can jsut work from a book that has a defined set of answers that are acceptable.

 

[Coldkilla]

My English professor teaches only what will be looked at by portfolio readers.. same concept..

I also have a class that's done in a classroom.. its an online class, doing online assignments, with no instructions from the instructer.. the guy walks around the computers in circles all day long with his hands behind his back.. WTF!?! This class could be done without an instructor..

EDIT:

EDIT: professers have lots of papers / tests to grade, adn it's easier on them if they can jsut work from a book that has a defined set of answers that are acceptable.

MANY professors have "Graders" that do that grading for them.

 

[acemcmac]

Originally posted by: Canai
Now they just try to teach whats covered in standardized tests, instead of broadening student's perspectives, teachers narrow them to try to get the best test result scores.

Exactly

 

[PrinceofWands]

$30,000-40,000 a year for a job requiring a Masters and the equivalent of almost two Bachelors is high dollar???

Moving beyond the lunacy of considering teachers highly paid (professors maybe, at retirement maybe, but primary/secondary teachers initially no) I would agree with you. Education requirements are insignificant when compared to earlier paradigms. Today's students learn less about less, and what they do learn they don't learn as well.

 

[Coldkilla]

Why don't we, instead of putting our noses in other country's affairs deal with our own stuff before going all over the place to "spread democracy".. Hell, spread it here in the US... not like we're a democracy anymore.. and uneducated fat lump of lard we are... with a remote control

 

[Journer]

it depends on the person teaching...ive had some professors who do just as you say...straight from the book...nothing new...same exam every semester...however, in my major courses (MIS) all of my teachers have been extremely good...they teach new, up to date material and use plenty of examples to help...not to mention they get the class involved...

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
$30,000-40,000 a year for a job requiring a Masters and the equivalent of almost two Bachelors is high dollar???

Moving beyond the lunacy of considering teachers highly paid (professors maybe, at retirement maybe, but primary/secondary teachers initially no) I would agree with you. Education requirements are insignificant when compared to earlier paradigms. Today's students learn less about less, and what they do learn they don't learn as well.

Great retirement, great benefits, 30-40k a year, and summers off!?!? Sounds good to me. Sounds average for a post-collegiate job.

 

[thirtythree]

I think he's talking about universities, but anyway, a master's degree isn't required to teach in secondary schools. Not in my state anyway.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
$30,000-40,000 a year for a job requiring a Masters and the equivalent of almost two Bachelors is high dollar???

Moving beyond the lunacy of considering teachers highly paid (professors maybe, at retirement maybe, but primary/secondary teachers initially no) I would agree with you. Education requirements are insignificant when compared to earlier paradigms. Today's students learn less about less, and what they do learn they don't learn as well.

Great retirement, great benefits, 30-40k a year, and summers off!?!? Sounds good to me. Sounds average for a post-collegiate job.

Yes, great retirement and great benefits. Summers off, not always. Strong continuing education requirements, summer schools, etc mean we'll only get about 2-3 out of 5 summers without nearly full time requirements (this is assuming you don't work in a year-round district of course). Numerous studies have shown quite conclusively that a teacher puts in the same hours in a year as any other full time job - the difference is we do it in 9 months. Many teachers put in even more of course, but any good teacher is at least equivalent. Not that I'm complaining of course, I like the schedule. Just don't like people misrepresenting.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: acemcmac

Originally posted by: Canai
Now they just try to teach whats covered in standardized tests, instead of broadening student's perspectives, teachers narrow them to try to get the best test result scores.

Exactly

yeap. you can thank politicians for that not the teachers. though the school board and teachers union have some blame.

since school funding is linked to the results of the test what do you think they are going to teach?

 

[JS80]

since when did teachers ever "teach"?

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Yes, great retirement and great benefits. Summers off, not always. Strong continuing education requirements, summer schools, etc mean we'll only get about 2-3 out of 5 summers without nearly full time requirements (this is assuming you don't work in a year-round district of course). Numerous studies have shown quite conclusively that a teacher puts in the same hours in a year as any other full time job - the difference is we do it in 9 months. Many teachers put in even more of course, but any good teacher is at least equivalent. Not that I'm complaining of course, I like the schedule. Just don't like people misrepresenting.

But think about class time..and this goes back to the OP's statement. Teachers spend a lot of times sitting back while watching a movie for the class...watching the class take a test...sitting at assemblies...going on field trips, etc.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
$30,000-40,000 a year for a job requiring a Masters and the equivalent of almost two Bachelors is high dollar???

Moving beyond the lunacy of considering teachers highly paid (professors maybe, at retirement maybe, but primary/secondary teachers initially no) I would agree with you. Education requirements are insignificant when compared to earlier paradigms. Today's students learn less about less, and what they do learn they don't learn as well.

Great retirement, great benefits, 30-40k a year, and summers off!?!? Sounds good to me. Sounds average for a post-collegiate job.

Yes, great retirement and great benefits. Summers off, not always. Strong continuing education requirements, summer schools, etc mean we'll only get about 2-3 out of 5 summers without nearly full time requirements (this is assuming you don't work in a year-round district of course). Numerous studies have shown quite conclusively that a teacher puts in the same hours in a year as any other full time job - the difference is we do it in 9 months. Many teachers put in even more of course, but any good teacher is at least equivalent. Not that I'm complaining of course, I like the schedule. Just don't like people misrepresenting.

yeap. my wife worked as a teacher for a few years.

she would get to school early to help tutur kids and stay after doing the same. At night she would grade homework and field questions from students on email and the phone. It was not uncommon for her to work nearly 14 hours a day 5 days a week. hell sometimes on weekends she was busy doing crap.

during the summer she have to either take classes (continueing education stuff etc) or teach summer school. Sure every now and then she would have the summer off but not often.

then she would have to purchase materials for the class and some students. wich comes out of her pocket.

all of this on a great pay of 25k a year...

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: thirtythree
I think he's talking about universities, but anyway, a master's degree isn't required to teach in secondary schools. Not in my state anyway.

NCLB and many state mandates to fulfill the highly-qualified teacher requirements are moving to Masters required, as well as at least a bachelors in every field you will teach. I think Washingtons requirement is within five years of teaching you need the Masters (but I could be off on that). When the endorsement requirements are added on you end up pretty much needing a masters, plus a bachelor and-a-quarter (or more for some subjects) for every subject you want to teach. Primary teachers are entirely different of course. At least that's how it is here.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Yes, great retirement and great benefits. Summers off, not always. Strong continuing education requirements, summer schools, etc mean we'll only get about 2-3 out of 5 summers without nearly full time requirements (this is assuming you don't work in a year-round district of course). Numerous studies have shown quite conclusively that a teacher puts in the same hours in a year as any other full time job - the difference is we do it in 9 months. Many teachers put in even more of course, but any good teacher is at least equivalent. Not that I'm complaining of course, I like the schedule. Just don't like people misrepresenting.

But think about class time..and this goes back to the OP's statement. Teachers spend a lot of times sitting back while watching a movie for the class...watching the class take a test...sitting at assemblies...going on field trips, etc.

and you again are 100% wrong.

during movies i can gurentee you most teachers will be takeing the time to get caught up on some work. at assemblies and field trips they are trying to keep the children paying attention. Not to mention these only happena few times a year.


now poor teachers may blow a lot of time (and i agree we have far to many piss poor teachers). But to say they spend time just sitting is insane.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Yes, great retirement and great benefits. Summers off, not always. Strong continuing education requirements, summer schools, etc mean we'll only get about 2-3 out of 5 summers without nearly full time requirements (this is assuming you don't work in a year-round district of course). Numerous studies have shown quite conclusively that a teacher puts in the same hours in a year as any other full time job - the difference is we do it in 9 months. Many teachers put in even more of course, but any good teacher is at least equivalent. Not that I'm complaining of course, I like the schedule. Just don't like people misrepresenting.

But think about class time..and this goes back to the OP's statement. Teachers spend a lot of times sitting back while watching a movie for the class...watching the class take a test...sitting at assemblies...going on field trips, etc.

And business employees talk at the water cooler, drink coffee, do a little web-surfing, etc. Very few professions do you actually work every minute of your scheduled shift. My point is that teachers are paid less than those in other fields with equivalent requirements while putting in the same actual number of work hours.

I took his post to be about a reduction in the bredth or depth of information being taught, not about the number of hours a single person spends verbally relating that information. If I misunderstood I apologize. However, if it's the second then I would argue that it's a GREAT thing because the standard lecture format is inefficient in public teaching.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: waggy
all of this on a great pay of 25k a year...

I don't see anywhere in the US where teachers make that little amount...unless in a state where cost of living is low and that's normal or this was back a few years when that was a reasonable salary.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: waggy
all of this on a great pay of 25k a year...

I don't see anywhere in the US where teachers make that little amount...unless in a state where cost of living is low and that's normal or this was back a few years when that was a reasonable salary.

That's pretty common. Teaching isn't always full time. In fact, a lot of teachers are hired as .4 or .6 or even .8, which is the equivalent (at least in theory) of 2/5-4/5 of a full-time teacher. But because of the strange hours it largely prohibits holding another job. So with a suggested salary of around 30k to start (and that's VERY common) 4/5 of that is 24k a year.

Individual districts may get paid less as well, due to funding issues. Real trouble states (like Oregon) often work years on an old contract so that they're half a decade behind state pay standards.

I just looked at the NEA figures and 31k is the national average for starting teachers, with 42k being the current average salary of all teachers.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: waggy
all of this on a great pay of 25k a year...

I don't see anywhere in the US where teachers make that little amount...unless in a state where cost of living is low and that's normal or this was back a few years when that was a reasonable salary.

That's pretty common. Teaching isn't always full time. In fact, a lot of teachers are hired as .4 or .6 or even .8, which is the equivalent (at least in theory) of 2/5-4/5 of a full-time teacher. But because of the strange hours it largely prohibits holding another job. So with a suggested salary of around 30k to start (and that's VERY common) 4/5 of that is 24k a year.

Individual districts may get paid less as well, due to funding issues. Real trouble states (like Oregon) often work years on an old contract so that they're half a decade behind state pay standards.

people often forget the top notch medical plans and overinflated pension plans.

 

[BlancoNino]

Continuing education (once every several years) over the summer isn't very hard and is definitley not as hard as actually working. The average teacher salary is more than the national average....so are the benefits and retirement plan. 25k a year for teaching would suck, but it won't stay at that salary for long. Honestly, teachers have it pretty well...trust me...I've talked to many about their job. Some of the bitchy ones like to complain, but the good ones say

"Meh, I get summers off, great retirement, and it's pretty low-stress and easy."

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: waggy
all of this on a great pay of 25k a year...

I don't see anywhere in the US where teachers make that little amount...unless in a state where cost of living is low and that's normal or this was back a few years when that was a reasonable salary.

actually in Northern IL the avarage starting wage is 30-35k a year. when my wife was teaching (7 years ago) the pay was far less.

but she started out at 25k i think the last year she was there she made 28k woot!

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Continuing education (once every several years) over the summer isn't very hard and is definitley not as hard as actually working. The average teacher salary is more than the national average....so are the benefits and retirement plan. 25k a year for teaching would suck, but it won't stay at that salary for long. Honestly, teachers have it pretty well...trust me...I've talked to many about their job. Some of the bitchy ones like to complain, but the good ones say

"Meh, I get summers off, great retirement, and it's pretty low-stress and easy."

Then the people you talk to aren't doing their jobs. I'm sorry, but research and national statistics don't agree with your views. Provide academic research supporting your claims, with comparisons to other jobs, or admit defeat.

To summarize against your points:

Provide proof that continuing education is every couple years. In Washington your license only lasts five years, so there's a recertification requirement every five years. In addition you're required to maintain not only your primary endorsement coursework, but also your pedagogical requirements in the education field. This amounts to the equivalent classload of earning an additional bachelors degree 3 times during a 30 year career. Granted, requirements vary from state to state, but they're much stricter than you're suggesting. Furthermore name a job that requires multiple degrees to start, and then 3 more during your career, for the same rate of pay as a teacher.

Not as hard as working? Prove it. Provide me some form of study which supports this statement.

Again, average teacher earnings are 31k to start, and 42k overall. National average individual income in 2003 was $31,632. That's not adjusted for education. Looking at a median chart for income by education level it shows Master's degree holders at $61,698 (median, not average mind you). Seems to me like education comes in a bit low compared to national averages. If you're talking about all jobs, well, yeah, a starting teacher with a masters and a bachelors makes more on average than a 15yr old at burger king. Did you mean for that fact to be important somehow?

Yes, benefits are generally good. But call a Portland OR teacher and ask about the strength of their retirement and benefits programs right now. Things are changing, and you can't calim this as the strength it once was. Everywhere teachers are having to give up some of their benefit balloon just to keep the school doors open. The times they are a changing.

Again, your anectodal evidence is wholly irrelevant to meaningful debate. Give me nationally compiled data. Low-stress? According to who? Teaching is a claling profession, and therefore there is a higher than average level of emotional investment according to occupational research. Teaching actually rates as the same type of job as police and medical fields regarding emotional investiture, which is a primary ingredient in stress. It hasn't generally had the same danger/adrenaline factor, but with the media attention on school shootings that also is changing. Moreover there has been a multi-decade trend to increased violence levels in schools which has warranted a special investigation by the FBI for many years. The result of which has been that school environments should be considered dangerous and stressful.

Easy? You teach a 15yr old about something he doesn't care about. Nuff said.

In other words, you don't have clue one what you're talking about. Have a nice day.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Continuing education (once every several years) over the summer isn't very hard and is definitley not as hard as actually working. The average teacher salary is more than the national average....so are the benefits and retirement plan. 25k a year for teaching would suck, but it won't stay at that salary for long. Honestly, teachers have it pretty well...trust me...I've talked to many about their job. Some of the bitchy ones like to complain, but the good ones say

"Meh, I get summers off, great retirement, and it's pretty low-stress and easy."

Then the people you talk to aren't doing their jobs. I'm sorry, but research and national statistics don't agree with your views. Provide academic research supporting your claims, with comparisons to other jobs, or admit defeat.

?

 

[Wreckem]

I have a question for all of you complaing about teacher pay.

What jobs are you comparing their pay to? Most college grads are making $30-40k, unless they are in engineering.

Just a sampling of college degrees, and their corresponding avg pay.

BBA - Administration $38k
BBA - Accounting $41k
BBA - Marketing $35k

B.S. Computer Sci - $49k
B.S. Chemical Eng - $52k
B.S. Civil Eng - $42k
B.S. Mech Eng - $48k
B.S. Computer Eng - $51k

B.A. in Lib Arts Combined Avg $29k

Most people arent making much more than teachers, and they only get 2 weeks off per year. Teachers get substaintially more no matter how you look at it.

The starting salary for teachers avgs $30k, some states the avg is significantly higher($55k), some states its slightly lower($25k). If you want to look at teachers pay at the post secondary level, JuCo Instructors $38k, University Instructors $40k, University Lecturers, $45k, University Assistant Professors $54k, University Associate Professors $65k, and University Professors $90k.

The people pulling down $100k+ out of college are rare, and almost all are in New York, and almost all are working close to 100 hrs a week. Now if you want to compare teachers to Drs or Lawyers, or people with MBAs, well they all work a HELL of a lot more hours in a year than a teacher does, irregardless of teaching level.

Drs, Lawers, and MBAs, all start off with craptastic hours to pay ratios.