Just had a solar panel system quote given today

Tsaico

Platinum Member
Oct 21, 2000
2,669
0
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My electric generally runs 200 ish on cooler seasons, 300 ish hot. I had a 26 panel system quoted out to me for 44k, with 35k in rebates, credits, and returns (which they take, and they finance me at 5% over 10 years for the left over balance with no prepay penalty).

Anyone have any experience with these things, do they really live up to the hype? I only know one person who has them, and in his case, he gets a couple credits a month, and he still runs his moderate AC usage, I think he was telling me his old bills used to be about 150 ish average. Everyone else is either hearsay or propaganda be it positive or negative. Here the "credits" are like an account, you can let them build up for other months you use more than you put in, there is some talk about opening things up so people (or businesses) buying these credits from you. Right now once it get to a certain amount, the power company automatically sends you a check to bring down the credits to a certain level again. (though they buy them back at 50 bucks a credit).

So in my friends case, he doesn't pay a $150 electric bill, and has been building credits for almost a year now. SO he is getting close to his limit on how many credits he can have. His payment on his finance was 50 bucks a month, so he spends less with the system than without, even after you include the loan to get it and ignore the money he will get from the credits program. What I don't know, is if this is typical or the exception.

Update: Just had city inspector turn on the new smart Meter and panels. I guess these are more accurate as to what is being used, and the home office is running full tilt (two servers and two workstations), AC and fans, as well as some minor lighting (four 44w flourescent bulbs in two ballasts), and the meter is crawling forward, so slow at first I thought it wasn't moving at all. Normally it flies around, now the panels seem to be producing about what I use; and without just the AC running, it credits me.

So far it seems to be holding up to what they claimed. I imagine since I live in So Cal, come winter time, when the AC isn't on, I will really be "putting" back into the grid.
 
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Jun 27, 2005
19,216
1
61
The solar company should be able to provide you with a fairly accurate estimate of your credits based on your usage history. If they handed you an estimate based on your past electric bills it's probably spot on.

26 panels... how many kilowatts are we talking?
 

Adul

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
32,999
44
91
danny.tangtam.com
The solar company should be able to provide you with a fairly accurate estimate of your credits based on your usage history. If they handed you an estimate based on your past electric bills it's probably spot on.

26 panels... how many kilowatts are we talking?

We had a 4.3KW system installed and it has made a nice dent in our bills since last year.
http://www.mysolarcity.com/Kiosk/SolarGuard.aspx?ID=5753F0D0-9793-49C2-A537-0AB5D398A008&GroupID=0&AutoDemo=1&Timeout=300&Share=0&ChartMode=Stack&Consumption=1&Min=30&ExportLifetime=0&RangeType=Day

We are leasing our panels
 

mmntech

Lifer
Sep 20, 2007
17,501
12
0
When it comes to this stuff, my first question is how long it will take to recover your investment. If we're talking decades and not years, that's a problem. How long to you intend to stay in your current home?
 

Adul

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
32,999
44
91
danny.tangtam.com
When it comes to this stuff, my first question is how long it will take to recover your investment. If we're talking decades and not years, that's a problem. How long to you intend to stay in your current home?

Through the lease it was 3 years on the initial 1k down calculated with conservative numbers. Rates have gone up twice since then and we are saving more than expect each month. Glad we did it.
 

slag

Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
10,473
81
101
I don't understand.. You are able to put some sort of panel or whatever on your property that turns sunlight into energy?

Yeah right. That will never happen! What's next, a light saber?
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,492
3,163
136
Good luck with this. And it doesn’t matter when you will see the savings or whatever. The fact you desire to try this says it all. We need more people to think this way.
It is so sad America is not light years advanced in solar energy, especially on a small home usage basis. When you consider all those roofs, facing the sun, all that square foot of potential solar real estate, and all of it going to waste.
Solar panels should be paper thin, and have the ability to supply at least 50% of home energy usage, especially when it comes to heating.
I guess we have to travel to planet Bersakie to find a civilization advanced enough to take advantage of solar energy. Sooooo sad...
 
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sweetrugger

Member
Jan 19, 2002
77
0
66
Almost all power companies bill solar customers differently. In my area, the customer is charged a minimum charge each month (about $5 a month), and all energy charges (positive charges or negative charges because of excess generation) are stored until an annual true-up.

At that time, the total of the energy charges over the 12 month period is compared with the total of the minimum charges over the same 12 month period. If the sum of the minimum charges is higher, the customer owes nothing more, and DOES NOT receive any excess energy credits. If the energy charges are higher, the customer is billed for the difference. Anyways, your power company could be totally different than this.

The solar installer should be able to give you a decent estimate of what the solar panels will produce during the year, which you could use to come up with a bill estimate based on your historical usage. As someone mentioned earlier, it's all about payoff period.
 

marvdmartian

Diamond Member
Apr 12, 2002
5,444
27
91
I live in north Texas, where we have nearly ideal conditions, year round, for solar systems.....but it's not worth putting one in here, at least, not yet.

I quoted online with a company. They showed how I could LOWER my bill with solar, but how it would take something like 20 years, with current technology, for me to save ~$3500. Meanwhile, the payoff on the system was immediate (in that circumstance), so they get their money up front. This also assumes that their solar panels won't lose much efficiency over that time period, I would imagine.......and since I'm purchasing outright, if it breaks, I'm betting I'd have to call them in to repair it, at my cost.

Another company I looked at would do a lease, but at that time they were so far behind the curve on doing installs that they weren't taking any more customers, for the foreseeable future. Even that company would have taken a long time to recover my investment.

The biggest problem I have with that long investment recovery time is that I'm pretty certain that we're going to see much more efficient panels come along in that time, which would (hopefully) return the investment at a higher rate, while (again, hopefully) costing no more to lease/purchase.

Oh, and I just locked in on a 24 month plan, to purchase my electricity for 9-cents a KW/hr, so even during the hot weather months here, where I might use upwards of 1600 KW/hrs, my bill should only run ~$150/month (down from ~$200+/month). Also, most electricity providers in TX have a minimum usage fee, where if you purchase less than 500 KW/hrs from them in a month, you pay an extra $5 to $10 for that month. Checking my electric bill, there were actually months this past winter (which was fairly cold, by Texas standards), where I only used 350 KW/hrs of electricity (just running the blower fan for my natural gas powered central heat, plus normal year round loads).

Don't forget, too, that the rebates come at the end of the year, so if you're purchasing now, and financing, you're paying interest on that rebated amount until the government kicks back the money next year.
 

GTaudiophile

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
29,767
33
81
In Germany the government would pay for most of those installation costs...and then would require electric companies to buy the excess from you at market rates.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
66,427
14,831
146
At one time, the local power companies bought your excess at market rates, but not any more. Now, you get the rebates...they get your excess at no cost.
IIRC, the local public utility has been discussing paying 5 cents/Kw for the excess...but they charge up to 18 cents for what you use...so while it's something...it's still far from the deal it used to be.
 

MrPickins

Diamond Member
May 24, 2003
9,125
792
126
In Germany the government would pay for most of those installation costs...and then would require electric companies to buy the excess from you at market rates.

The problem is that governments don't pay for anything, really.

It's all taxpayers' money...
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
I live in north Texas, where we have nearly ideal conditions, year round, for solar systems.....but it's not worth putting one in here, at least, not yet.

I quoted online with a company. They showed how I could LOWER my bill with solar, but how it would take something like 20 years, with current technology, for me to save ~$3500. Meanwhile, the payoff on the system was immediate (in that circumstance), so they get their money up front. This also assumes that their solar panels won't lose much efficiency over that time period, I would imagine.......and since I'm purchasing outright, if it breaks, I'm betting I'd have to call them in to repair it, at my cost.

Another company I looked at would do a lease, but at that time they were so far behind the curve on doing installs that they weren't taking any more customers, for the foreseeable future. Even that company would have taken a long time to recover my investment.

The biggest problem I have with that long investment recovery time is that I'm pretty certain that we're going to see much more efficient panels come along in that time, which would (hopefully) return the investment at a higher rate, while (again, hopefully) costing no more to lease/purchase.

Oh, and I just locked in on a 24 month plan, to purchase my electricity for 9-cents a KW/hr, so even during the hot weather months here, where I might use upwards of 1600 KW/hrs, my bill should only run ~$150/month (down from ~$200+/month). Also, most electricity providers in TX have a minimum usage fee, where if you purchase less than 500 KW/hrs from them in a month, you pay an extra $5 to $10 for that month. Checking my electric bill, there were actually months this past winter (which was fairly cold, by Texas standards), where I only used 350 KW/hrs of electricity (just running the blower fan for my natural gas powered central heat, plus normal year round loads).

Don't forget, too, that the rebates come at the end of the year, so if you're purchasing now, and financing, you're paying interest on that rebated amount until the government kicks back the money next year.


And in Texas, we can't sell any credits or excess power back to the utilities...yet. I think the legislature had looked at it during the most recent session, but I don't know if they passed anything.
 

DominionSeraph

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2009
8,386
32
91
The problem is that governments don't pay for anything, really.

It's all taxpayers' money...

No, the problem is that you don't understand that taxpayers are the recipients.
It's ALL taxpayers' money.


Utilities socialize very well because the product supplied is one you were going to buy anyway.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,809
6,363
126
Not sure if this is on the Market yet or how much it would Cost, but it might be something to look into.
 

Jimmah

Golden Member
Mar 18, 2005
1,243
2
0
Not sure if this is on the Market yet or how much it would Cost, but it might be something to look into.

Not very effective, would likely be more efficient to use the money spent on it in buying more solar panels.

At less than 100$/60w panel (homemade) you could likely add 600w or more, or with a few hours+friends+beer+300$ you can fab up your own 1-2kw horizontal turbine.
 

MrPickins

Diamond Member
May 24, 2003
9,125
792
126
No, the problem is that you don't understand that taxpayers are the recipients.
It's ALL taxpayers' money.


Utilities socialize very well because the product supplied is one you were going to buy anyway.

Some of the taxpayers are the recipients. I am of the opinion that governments should not shuffle their constituents money around to please the green lobby.

If you're going to socialize the power industry, the money would be better spent on more cost effective generation methods and infrastructure upgrades that would benefit everyone.

Edit: For the record, I'm not against PV installations on homes, I just feel that governments should not be paying (or issuing credits) for what is still an immature technology.
 
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DominionSeraph

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2009
8,386
32
91
Some of the taxpayers are the recipients. I am of the opinion that governments should not shuffle their constituents money around to please the green lobby.

The goal will be for 0% fossil fuel. That leaves 100% for nuclear and renewables. 100% covers everyone.

If you're going to socialize the power industry, the money would be better spent on more cost effective generation methods and infrastructure upgrades that would benefit everyone.

Your "feelings" are irrelevant.

Here:
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BarkingGhostar

Diamond Member
Nov 20, 2009
8,410
1,617
136
My electric generally runs 200 ish on cooler seasons, 300 ish hot. I had a 26 panel system quoted out to me for 44k, with 35k in rebates, credits, and returns (which they take, and they finance me at 5% over 10 years for the left over balance with no prepay penalty).

Anyone have any experience with these things, do they really live up to the hype? I only know one person who has them, and in his case, he gets a couple credits a month, and he still runs his moderate AC usage, I think he was telling me his old bills used to be about 150 ish average. Everyone else is either hearsay or propaganda be it positive or negative. Here the "credits" are like an account, you can let them build up for other months you use more than you put in, there is some talk about opening things up so people (or businesses) buying these credits from you. Right now once it get to a certain amount, the power company automatically sends you a check to bring down the credits to a certain level again. (though they buy them back at 50 bucks a credit).

So in my friends case, he doesn't pay a $150 electric bill, and has been building credits for almost a year now. SO he is getting close to his limit on how many credits he can have. His payment on his finance was 50 bucks a month, so he spends less with the system than without, even after you include the loan to get it and ignore the money he will get from the credits program. What I don't know, is if this is typical or the exception.
Is this inclusive of a battery storage system for night-usage? What is your peak kWh usage and what size system are they proposing? What is the panel warranty? The warranty on other components? Warranty on installation? Why are you not getting more than one quote?
 

HomerSapien

Golden Member
Jul 19, 2000
1,756
0
0
The goal will be for 0% fossil fuel. That leaves 100% for nuclear and renewables. 100% covers everyone.


What are you going to do for peak load? Fossil fuels will always be needed as peak load providers.

I am for a balance mix of multiple types of generation. Nuclear is only a base load energy. Renewables are not even base load since they are not controlled, they just add to the grid when they are working.
 

preslove

Lifer
Sep 10, 2003
16,754
64
91
Some of the taxpayers are the recipients. I am of the opinion that governments should not shuffle their constituents money around to please the green lobby.

If you're going to socialize the power industry, the money would be better spent on more cost effective generation methods and infrastructure upgrades that would benefit everyone.

Edit: For the record, I'm not against PV installations on homes, I just feel that governments should not be paying (or issuing credits) for what is still an immature technology.

Will you idiots stop using "socialism" and its derivatives until you, you know, actually understand it's meaning? Giving tax credits to consumers for environmental policy ends is not "socialism."
 

Mark R

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
8,513
16
81
In the UK, the government will pay about 50% of the panel cost for you. They also force the electricity companies to buy the solar energy from you at 10x the market rate, guaranteed for a minimum of 25 years.

It's completely crazy. PV is so poorly suited to British weather that without such ludicrous subsidies it wouldn't be remotely viable. However, if you've got cash to fund the installation on real-estate (must be a domestic home) that you own, then it's a licence to print money; payback time about 2-3 years.
 

Argo

Lifer
Apr 8, 2000
10,045
0
0
Is it 44k *after* 35k in rebates, or before? Also, what's the typical maintenance and length of life on those?
 
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MrPickins

Diamond Member
May 24, 2003
9,125
792
126
Will you idiots stop using "socialism" and its derivatives until you, you know, actually understand it's meaning? Giving tax credits to consumers for environmental policy ends is not "socialism."

I didn't bring up socializing utilities, I was responding to DominionSeraph:

Utilities socialize very well because the product supplied is one you were going to buy anyway.

No need to get your panties in a bunch. ;)