Just got back from the Trump rally/protest

[fskimospy]

Ad hominem fallacy doesn't require an explicit statement like this to apply.

"You would say this since you're a liberal."

This is a fallacy as well. I didn't need to say you are wrong because you're a liberal. Keep doubling down on stupid.

Your example is not a logical fallacy either. Saying that someone is likely to say something due to their ideology is not saying that it is wrong because of their ideology. Similarly, saying I found someone's statement funny because I thought they were a 9/11 truther was not saying that the argument was wrong because of the aforementioned trutherism.

By your logic every insult is a logical fallacy, which is obviously wrong. For example, you are acting like a childish ignoramus right now. When I tell you that I am not saying that your concept of what ad homenium attacks are wrong because of this, I'm saying that as a general description of your character.

I'm genuinely not kidding when I say you shouldn't use these terms because you don't understand them. This is getting really tedious so I won't be responding to this any more so feel free to say whatever you want. I will hold out hope that you will work to become less dishonest and gain some personal character but I know that's not likely.

 

[shady28]

Most of the things you just mentioned are commonly associated with the extreme right. Trade agreements are one area where the extreme right and the extreme left do tend to meet though, so I'll give you that. Trade protectionism is fundamentally stupid, but it's a stupidity shared by both ends of the spectrum.

You'd be wrong about that, particularly the extreme part.

Plenty of Democrats are concerned with illegal immigration and H1B/H2B visa abuse. They are also concerned about TPP and other NAFTA-like outsourcing trade deals.

 

[jackstar7]

You'd be wrong about that, particularly the extreme part.

Plenty of Democrats are concerned with illegal immigration and H1B/H2B visa abuse. They are also concerned about TPP and other NAFTA-like outsourcing trade deals.

Can you just link to the polling on those issues that backs up your assertion? You have it bookmarked, right?

 

[Knowing]

ITT: partisan true believers, concerned that their retreat from any resemblance of the moral high ground has been televised appear to believe that trolling will make it better.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

 

[HTFOff]

Why is the left going to bat for these miscreants? Do you carry yourselves in similar fashion when you're in public? No, you don't. Do you associate yourselves with people like that? Didn't think so. Such behavior will only lead to a sad, possibly deadly end and only serves to strengthen trump's support. The juice is not worth the squeeze, folks.

 

[buckshot24]

Your example is not a logical fallacy either. Saying that someone is likely to say something due to their ideology is not saying that it is wrong because of their ideology. Similarly, saying I found someone's statement funny because I thought they were a 9/11 truther was not saying that the argument was wrong because of the aforementioned trutherism.

Repeat after me, you do NOT need to "say" they are wrong in order for it to be a fallacy. My example is an ad hom.

By your logic every insult is a logical fallacy, which is obviously wrong. For example, you are acting like a childish ignoramus right now. When I tell you that I am not saying that your concept of what ad homenium attacks are wrong because of this, I'm saying that as a general description of your character.

Is ad homenium a newly discovered element?

Not all insults are ad homs, that is correct but that isn't my logic. Since my "general description of my character" is irrelevant to the subject you're committing an ad hom fallacy. You're poisoning the well. Instead of commenting only on my argument you make comments that have nothing to do with the argument.

I'm genuinely not kidding when I say you shouldn't use these terms because you don't understand them. This is getting really tedious so I won't be responding to this any more so feel free to say whatever you want. I will hold out hope that you will work to become less dishonest and gain some personal character but I know that's not likely.

We'll see if you keep your word on this. And please keep your phony concerns about me to yourself.

You don't need to be explicit in order to be employing an ad hom. Repeat that to yourself over and over until you get it.

 

[shady28]

Can you just link to the polling on those issues that backs up your assertion? You have it bookmarked, right?

The availability of that kind of data is huge, I would assume you can find multiple sources on your own.

This isn't some secret - unions are even having a hard time keeping members on the Dem bandwagon.

But sure, I'll help you get started :


Donald Trump’s Strongest Supporters: A Certain Kind of Democrat

Democrats Worried as Union Members Support for Trump Tops Support for Hillary and Bernie Combined

Labor Fears Partisan Defections Toward Donald Trump

Trump wants GOP to be 'worker's party.' Already there?

Oh and for survey data :

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...current_events/immigration/immigration_update

Seventy percent (70%) of Republicans - and 51% of all voters - support GOP presidential front-runner Donald Trump’s plan to build a wall along the Mexican border to help stop illegal immigration. Sixty-one percent (61%) of voters think the government is not aggressive enough in deporting those who are in this country illegally, another view most have held in surveys for years.

Most Republicans (79%) and voters not affiliated with either major political party (65%) say gaining control of the border is more important than legalizing the status of workers already here, but most Democrats (57%) take the opposite view. Just 35% of Democrats consider border control more important.

 

[shady28]

Throw in some environmental concern and your main issues are exactly my own. I just have no faith that Trump would honestly attempt to address these issues. And, admittedly, some fear that even were he to do so, he might well do it so clumsily as to make matters worse.

You might want to check out Trumps 2000 book 'The America We Deserve'. You can read the first bit of it on Amazon for free.

I read that because I wanted to see what Trump was consistently about. Immigration is one of those things. My impression of his view on social issues also mirrors my own, he has a pliable opinion but it isn't what he is about. He is about getting American business back in America along with American jobs, freeing up industry and business from over-regulation, and preserving the middle class. He has many examples of how these things have inhibited business growth.

And why wouldn't he want to do those things - without the middle class Trump (and many others) is nothing.

Worth noting as well, in this book published in 2000 he saw two major storms brewing - stock market crash, and terrorism. Both materialized immediately, with the market topping in early 2000 and 9/11/2001. He also called the 2008 real estate meltdown. He isn't dumb by any stretch, only the uninformed (which are many) think he is stupid.

It is worth reading, and comparing to his current positions. I did the same thing with Sanders, reading up on his past actions. Did you know Sanders busted a union conducting an illegal strike? Unions were his biggest backers. Sanders would uphold the law even at his own political expense, meaning he has integrity. Hillary, like Obama, of course will not. Sanders also opposed H1B visa expansion and corporate abuse (companies lying about their ability to get qualified US citizens).

There's a lot to be learned by looking at a candidates past, what they really care about and what they don't, as much of what the candidates say during the election (all of them) is no more than pandering.

 

[AnonymouseUser]

Good news everyone! Bernie condemns the violence from Thursday's Trump rally! Or does he...?

Violence is absolutely and totally unacceptable

Good start, but can he keep it up?

If people are thinking about violence, please do not tell anybody you are a Bernie Sanders supporter, because those are not the supporters that I want.

Nope! If you are going to be violent, just don't tell anyone you're a Bernie supporter? lol, it's OK to be violent as long as nobody knows you support Bernie (that might hurt his reputation, k?). That's rich.

I understand how reprehensible and disgraceful Donald Trump's positions are; how ignorant they are. I can understand the anger, I surely can, because I feel it. The bigotry that is coming out of his mouth. The insults to the Mexican community, the Latino community, the Muslim community, and women, and African-Americans and veterans. I understand the anger.

Yes, Bernie says Trump is definitely racist and he empathizes with the violent protesters. That is a weak condemnation, and is the equivalent of saying "if you don't want to get raped you shouldn't wear sexy clothes."

 

[Vic]

The availability of that kind of data is huge, I would assume you can find multiple sources on your own.

This isn't some secret - unions are even having a hard time keeping members on the Dem bandwagon.

But sure, I'll help you get started :


Donald Trump’s Strongest Supporters: A Certain Kind of Democrat

Democrats Worried as Union Members Support for Trump Tops Support for Hillary and Bernie Combined

Labor Fears Partisan Defections Toward Donald Trump

Trump wants GOP to be 'worker's party.' Already there?

Oh and for survey data :

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...current_events/immigration/immigration_update

So Trump's plan is to turn the GOP into a workers party with an ultra-nationalist agenda led by a charismatic demagogue? Why does that sound vaguely familiar?

 

[chucky2]

Can you just link to the polling on those issues that backs up your assertion? You have it bookmarked, right?

Lol is this the new posting strategery?

 

[Victorian Gray]

Mike drop

Then trips over his own feet while leaving the stage and falls flat on his face.

 

[shady28]

So Trump's plan is to turn the GOP into a workers party with an ultra-nationalist agenda led by a charismatic demagogue? Why does that sound vaguely familiar?

Trump also wants to de-regulate business to a large degree, which would be quite the opposite of what you are ignorantly attempting to imply.

 

[soundforbjt]

Trump also wants to de-regulate business to a large degree, which would be quite the opposite of what you are ignorantly attempting to imply.

de-regulate business and get rid of EPA, bring back coal, sounds like a great idea if you hate clean air & water...

 

[shady28]

de-regulate business and get rid of EPA, bring back coal, sounds like a great idea if you hate clean air & water...

I'm going to respond to that false assertion with a little snippet from Trump's book from 2000 titled "The America We Deserve".

He is talking about unfair trade, and gives a good example of how to level the playing field.

There was a time in the mid-80's, for example, when the Japanese were overfishing the Pacific. By combining forces and laying down the line, other fishing nations prevailed. The Japanese stopped using their large nets, giving opportunities to fishermen of other nations and, more important, protecting the environment.

 

[soundforbjt]

I'm going to respond to that false assertion with a little snippet from Trump's book from 2000 titled "The America We Deserve".

He is talking about unfair trade, and gives a good example of how to level the playing field.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/t...ent-of-environment-protection/article/2584908
link to getting rid of EPA ^


Trump recently said in coal country:
“Let me tell you: the miners in West Virginia and Pennsylvania, which was so great to me last week and Ohio and all over, they’re going to start to work again, believe me. You’re going to be proud again to be miners.”

 

[shady28]

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/t...ent-of-environment-protection/article/2584908
link to getting rid of EPA ^


Trump recently said in coal country:
“Let me tell you: the miners in West Virginia and Pennsylvania, which was so great to me last week and Ohio and all over, they’re going to start to work again, believe me. You’re going to be proud again to be miners.”

So lets be real.

He's said he is going to shrink the EPA drastically. He's actually picked out an environmental adviser who is a big fracking proponent. He isn't going to, and he can't, eliminate the EPA.

Reducing regulations in that area will greatly expand the economy. It will give good paying jobs back to those miners, and hundreds of thousands if not millions of others as manufacturing and other industries have reason to move back to the US.

And what do you offer? Let me guess, those coal miners can go off to be retrained as engineers. Never mind that we're offshoring over 200,000 of those jobs a year, don't think about that, just think about what you can do after investing 40 or 50k into that future (dead-end) career under existing political establishment.

Maintaining our status as 1st-world is a bit more important, in my book. That means having a thriving middle class. If we lose that, no one - not even you most likely - will give a rats ass about the environment.

 

[soundforbjt]

So lets be real.

He's said he is going to shrink the EPA drastically. He's actually picked out an environmental adviser who is a big fracking proponent. He isn't going to, and he can't, eliminate the EPA.

Reducing regulations in that area will greatly expand the economy. It will give good paying jobs back to those miners, and hundreds of thousands if not millions of others as manufacturing and other industries have reason to move back to the US.

And what do you offer? Let me guess, those coal miners can go off to be retrained as engineers. Never mind that we're offshoring over 200,000 of those jobs a year, don't think about that, just think about what you can do after investing 40 or 50k into that future (dead-end) career under existing political establishment.

Maintaining our status as 1st-world is a bit more important, in my book. That means having a thriving middle class. If we lose that, no one - not even you most likely - will give a rats ass about the environment.

Look up the safety records for the coal mine owners. They'll out for one thing only...profit in their pockets. IF the owners cared about safety and their workers, maybe we could talk. Those jobs are not coming back.

 

[feralkid]

So lets be real.

He's said he is going to shrink the EPA drastically. He's actually picked out an environmental adviser who is a big fracking proponent. He isn't going to, and he can't, eliminate the EPA.

Reducing regulations in that area will greatly expand the economy. It will give good paying jobs back to those miners, and hundreds of thousands if not millions of others as manufacturing and other industries have reason to move back to the US.

And what do you offer? Let me guess, those coal miners can go off to be retrained as engineers. Never mind that we're offshoring over 200,000 of those jobs a year, don't think about that, just think about what you can do after investing 40 or 50k into that future (dead-end) career under existing political establishment.

Maintaining our status as 1st-world is a bit more important, in my book. That means having a thriving middle class. If we lose that, no one - not even you most likely - will give a rats ass about the environment.

Poor people care about clean air and water as much as anyone else.

Also, only a fool thinks miners don't want EPA protection.

 

[shady28]

Poor people care about clean air and water as much as anyone else.

Also, only a fool thinks miners don't want EPA protection.

I won't get into an argument about something I don't know much about, but a quick search found something that appears to directly validate what I said earlier about economics trumping environmentalism on people's list of important issues.

The Democrats are beginning to lose the working class because of their focus on wedge issues.


http://www.advertiser-tribune.com/p...Strickland-for-US-Senate.html?isap=1&nav=5015

COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) — A coal miners' union influential in Appalachian Ohio endorsed Republican incumbent Rob Portman on Thursday over rival Ted Strickland in the closely watched contest for U.S. Senate.

The endorsement by the United Mine Workers of America's National Council of Coal Miners PAC came as a political blow to Strickland. The Democrat is a former governor and congressman native to eastern Ohio whose strong relationships with labor have helped him win elections. COMPAC backed both Strickland's gubernatorial campaigns in 2006 and 2010.

 

[0roo0roo]

LOL now we have a couple seconds of animated gifs as your evidence. That's top notch stuff!

The icing on the cake is that I'm being told I twist things to support my preferred outcome by a 9/11 truther. You are hilarious.

Just some more I found yesterday since I took most of a day ignoring this stuff, but still, there is more...and probably more I haven't found.


#BERNIE SUPPORTER BEAT UP BY OTHER BERNIE SUPPORTERS FOR THINKING HE WAS A #TRUMP SUPPORTER #WTF @SanJose #protest
https://twitter.com/Myrna_Perez/status/738749169272119297
ernie Supporter Beat Up By other Bernie Supporters
Myrna Perez
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYlE7Nh5egI

Protesters Attack Trump Supporters in San Jose; Mayor Blames Trump!
http://www.breitbart.com/california...nti-trump-protesters-attack-trump-supporters/
Raw video: Punches thrown in clashes following @realDonaldTrump rally in San Jose
https://twitter.com/smahaskey/status/738570881392214017
Raw video: Fighting continues in streets following @realDonaldTrump rally in San Jose.
https://twitter.com/smahaskey/status/738573795896610816
Protesters cornering Trump supporters as they leave. This woman taunted them. They cornered her & threw eggs at her
https://twitter.com/SaraMurray/status/738559069737222144
Our video of Trump supporter who says he was beaten up coming out of @realDonaldTrump rally.
https://twitter.com/TomLlamasABC/status/738571817388908545

Anti Trump protest rips up American flag in San Jose
Breitbart News
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owEG8OMJdgY


"F**k your wall! F**k your wall!"
Anti-Trump protesters taunt and physically attack Trump supporters in #SanJose:
https://twitter.com/Fusion/status/738836577594396672

Protesters rushed a parking garage. Destroying the barricades near the #Trump rally
https://twitter.com/Timcast/status/738577323201462273

I called 911 but no one answered. Donald trump protest in San Jose, CA
https://twitter.com/marcusdipaola/status/738572899808743424

Last night in CA an angry mob attacked gay Latino Trump supporter & Log Cabin Republicans member Juan Hernandez
https://twitter.com/LogCabinGOP/status/738811229377056773

To me that can looks like it is floating and not full of anything, not that he should have thrown it but it didn't look full of something to me. At least the second can didn't look full can't see the trajectory of the first one.

Here is one of your guys throwing a metal sawhorse at a journalist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHfLFmenSQA

Keep pretending nothing is wrong with your side....

 

[Svnla]

Waving mexican flags, burning US flags, assaulting US citizens and police officers, destroying properties and on and on and Hillary and Bernie want these thugs and criminals as future "citizens".

Are we still a nation of law and order or mobs can run around and do whatever they want?

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-trump-protest-20160603-snap-htmlstory.html

.

 

[feralkid]

Waving mexican flags, burning US flags, assaulting US citizens and police officers, destroying properties and on and on and Hillary and Bernie want these thugs and criminals as future "citizens".

Are we still a nation of law and order or mobs can run around and do whatever they want?

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-trump-protest-20160603-snap-htmlstory.html

.

Why do you go around assuming they are not citizens?

 

[jackstar7]

Lol is this the new posting strategery?

It's actually just having a discussion. You posit something, you back it up.

Lots of hit and runners just dropping "facts" as though they are facts. Hinders any chance of me actually learning anything from them. And if I can't learn anything, then my time is wasted.

 

[LegendKiller]

Why do you go around assuming they are not citizens?

If they are, they are with the non-citizens.