Just got a 46.1 gigger, how should I partition

Descend492

Senior member
Jul 10, 2000
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That's right, Santa was nice and brought me an IBM 46.1 gig drive, now I need to know how you guys suggest I partition it.

I'm going to install Windows 2000, as well as Mandrake Linux. I don't play many games, but I want the option left open, so I might need either Windows 98 or ME (do you suggest putting this in there, or will 2000 be good enough for my gaming?). I also have an 8 gig HDD (My old one which I will probably format and do somethign else to it (this might be me 98 drive). I also have a 2.4 gig HDD which will be my Linux drive (I think, at least that's how it always was). Any suggestions on how I should partition this bad boy? I'm going to need a lot of storage space because I've got an ftp server and I'm going to be having a lot of stuff available. thanks guys
 

Impact55

Platinum Member
Feb 16, 2000
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I got the same drive ;) The cool part is the jumpers already set and ready for master, right?
 

Impact55

Platinum Member
Feb 16, 2000
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I also thought something was broken cuz there was like silicon things and it sounded like broken pieces, but it was like packets to keep it "fresh". Win2000 should be fine for games, but it depends on what video card you have? Also are you going to be running FAT32 or NTFS?
 

Danlz

Senior member
Feb 24, 2000
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Suggest 1 partition for the 46G because multiple partitions force additional drive letter assignments to keep track of. Pros and cons for Multi verses single partitions are endless debates. Unless you're proficient with Linux, I wouldn't mix the OS's on a single drive. Play with Linux on the 2.4G and use the 8G as primary. Using the 46G as a repository for Ghost, mp3's, etc. is a good idea. If you already have 98SE, why not stick with it, I understand there's no compelling reason (yet) for ME other than bragging. Also, seems better to have another box running the server stuff maybe using the 2.4G. I'm sure 10 people will have 10 different opinions here.
 

Radboy

Golden Member
Oct 11, 1999
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C: 6GB primary for W98/SE/ME
Next: 2GB primary ext2 for Linux native
Next 128MB Linux swap
D: 6GB logical drive for W2K
E: 7.9GB for games
F: 7.9GB for MP3s, etc, whatever
G: 7.9GB for wgatever
H: whatever is left - for downloads, drivers, back-up files, ghost images, etc.
 

Spook

Platinum Member
Nov 29, 1999
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I suggest a 5G partition for Win2k, a 20G partition for Programs, and games, and 20G for MP3's and other files(such as drivers, maps to games, patches). or instead of 20/20 make it 25/15... but give win2k some room... 5G should be enough for the OS, and all the programs you use.. Word, Excel, Winamap, Winzip etc...

I just got my 45G last week... Oh, yead drive assignments, unlike Win98, can be set to whatever you want them to be in Win2k...

 

Rigoletto

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Aug 6, 2000
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BTW, I have read that Windows allocates space in 32k clusters instead of 4k over partitions of 8Gb. (That explains Radboy's scheme).
 

Spook

Platinum Member
Nov 29, 1999
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Good God, there is 45G of Hard drive space, are we going back to worrying about 32k or 4k clusters... All that means is that the smallest your file can be is 32k, and that it rounds up to the nearest 32k with you files... Who cares with 45G of HD space.
 

Cknyc

Golden Member
Oct 10, 1999
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Just split it into 3 drives. Windows/programs, mp3's, stuff. I use to be in the camp that favored many partitions, one for programs, one for games etc.. Now i just eitehr leave one large drive or split it up into 2. Make sure you have a partition for mp3's. I have a whole hd for em. rither way one partition or manythe computer will perform the same.
 

Rigoletto

Banned
Aug 6, 2000
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well, spook, I did explain I guessed that was the motivation behind Radboy's scheme.
If your hard drive was full of audio and video, then you wouldn't care naturally.
 

Modus

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Partitioning a large drive into several smaller chunks is almost never worth the added hassle. Why?

1) FAT32 renders "cluster slack" moot. With the standard 8k clusters imposed on a FAT32 partition larger than 8.4G, and 16k clusters for drives around 20G, the average 1.0G of data will waste a paltry 20M of space. How do we know this?

I recently did a survey of several computers I sold. To do this on your own machine, go to My Computer, double click on C:\, press Ctrl-A, and click File>Properties (ignore any message about the hidden files in your root directory, they're insignificant). A window will pop up showing you some important numbers. First, a count of the files on this drive. Then, under "Size", two numbers: the first will be the total size of all your files, and the second will be the total space occupied by all your files including wasted clusters. The second number will always be a multiple of your cluster size, and it will always be large than the first number. (For your cluster size, type CHKDSK at the DOS prompt, and read the size of each allocation unit.) By subtracting the first number from the second number, you get the exact amount of wasted space on the drive. It ends up being a lot less than you'd expect.

Another interesting number is the average file size, which comes from dividing the total file size (not the total occupied space) by the number of files on the drive. With these numbers, I calculated the average size of a file on a well-used Windows 98 drive. I found an average file on an average system takes up 150k, which means that an average 1G of data contains about 6990 files. A very good estimate of the amount of wasted space in any size data is

(Total Size of Data / Average File Size) * (Cluster Size / 2)

Why? Well, files are stored on your hard drive according to the rule that no two files can occupy the same cluster. If a file is smaller than a cluster, or if the file ends before the end of a cluter, the rest of the cluster is wasted. Logically then, an average file will waste half a cluster, since by probability the end of this file will fall in the middle of a cluster. So the amount of wasted space for a given set of data is the number of files (Total Size / Average File Size) times one half of the cluster size. You can check this yourself by doing the calculation on your own data and comparing it to the exact number Windows gives. It is actually a very conservative estimate, probably because the base Windows files are smaller than the files you accumulate later, and because a few large files can save a lot of space.

This formula tells us two things: First, bigger clusters waste more space (duh). Second, larger average file sizes waste less space. People with drives occupied by the relatively huge files of MP3's and graphics waste very little space. Of course, under Windows 2000's NTFS partitions, cluster slack is negligible, due to the tiny 512 byte clusters (same size as on floppy disks, actually.)

2) The performance gains from tinkering with the Windows swap file are dubious at best. You would probably be better off working at minimum wage and devoting the money to a hard drive or ram upgrade than spending the same time wrestling with partitions! Even placing the swap file on the fastest portion of the disk shows very little, if any, real world performance benefit. And think of the hassle in managing it all.

Real world hard drive usage is typified, not by continuous sustained transfers, but small seeks back and forth across the surface of the disk. Thus, placing a supposedly vital partition -- such as the OS boot partition -- on the outer edge of the disk will have very little effect on performance, because the it does nothing to improve seek times across the entire drive. And since long sustained transfers will rarely take place in the OS boot partition, its location at the outer edge of the disk is wasted.

3) FDISK is the only freely available partitioning tool and is hardly user friendly. You could go out and purchase Partition Magic or similar software, but for the same money you could just sell your old drive and buy a bigger, faster one!

4) Partitioning your hard drive will not save you time if you need to reinstall your OS. Why?

Even under a full-drive partition, Windows can be reinstalled on top of itself to fix minor problems, as can your programs if they become corrupted. This will take the same time regardless of your partition arrangement.

A common argument for partitions is that, with a small (600M or so) operating system partition and some kind of disk imaging software (Norton Ghost, for instance), you can restore a corrupted Windows installation in minutes. In reality, it just doesn't work this way. As soon as Windows is restored, the registry reverts to its default state and anything pertaining to your applications is lost, rendering them unstable or inoperable. This forces you to manually reinstall your applications to restore the lost registry keys. Of course, you don't have to restore your data, but any prudent individual would already have a safe external backup system, so all data could be retrieved easily from there.

So, the only time really saved by a small, OS-only partition, is the installation of the OS itself, which is not the biggest factor. In fact, the same time savings could be garnered by simply taking an image of the entire drive after installing all drivers/programs. This image, like any other important data, must be backed up externally, and once that is done, the partitioning scheme is again rendered redundant.

Many people argue that partitions allow them to backup their applications to a convinient storage area. This is weak because anyone with legal copies of their software will have the proper installation disks on hand. If certain programs downloaded from the Internet are important enough to backup to a serparate partition, then they are important enough to backup to safe removable media, rendering separate partitions redundant.

Personal data files, too, must always be backed up to some safe external medium, and since legitimate data files (financial records, written documents, contact lists) are so small, they often fit on a single floppy. Even if you work with large graphics, you must periodically back them up to some other external media, in case of theft, fire, or drive failure. And with CD burners so cheap and fast nowadays, there's no excuse not to backup your sensitive data in case of a hard drive crash. Hoping a hard drive crash will confine itself to a single partition is unwise.

The key point here is the backing up your data safely is an all-or-nothing business. You can't go half way and assume it does any good. To be prudent, you must take the proper precautions against fire, theft, or drive failure, and use an external backup device. Once that is done, partitioning holds very few advantages.

5) Partitioning does not help you organize your files. That's what folders are for. It is actually easier to keep track of your data files when they're all on the same drive, organized into different folders with descriptive names. It makes saving and navigation easier, too, because you never have to select a new drive to browse.

So we have basically eliminated all the reasons people give for partitioning data: It doesn't save you much space, it won't save you time reinstalling your OS and programs, it won't increase performance significantly, and it won't help you stay organized. About the ONLY thing partitions are good for is booting to multiple operating systems.

Modus
 

Turbopit

Senior member
Dec 17, 2000
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Well, Modus, you've got me convinced. I hate having to navigate to different drive letters when I save/download something. Major waste of time.


I currently have a 4.3 gig hard drive with a lot of programs on both on C: and D: that I don't have CD's for. My current OS is a kinda early version of 98. I have an IBM 45 gig on the way. What's the best way to get all my prgrams onto the new drive, preferebly under one drive letter? I am also thinking of finally going to a newer operating system.

Any tips?
 

JellyBaby

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2000
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Win 9x users who don't partition will enjoy a long, long, long wait everytime Scandisk automatically runs at startup. Of course you can disable this behavior (not a good idea...it's running for a reason). But I recommend a small OS partition and another for everything else.

Otherwise the only really good reason to partition is for organizational purposes. I personally work more effectively and am more comforatable with, 3 partitions. To each his own.
 

Turbopit

Senior member
Dec 17, 2000
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That sounds like a good point about scandisk. I usually only re-boot once a week at the most though, and that is usually as I go to bed. What about defrag? I would think that would take quite some time on a large drive.
 

JellyBaby

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2000
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Turbopit,

Defrag, under fat32 at least, is indeed a mangy dog-like beast. It might make sense to place performance critical applications (hint, games) onto a single, smaller partition so you can frequently run defrag to keep everything optimized. Good point.
 

LXi

Diamond Member
Apr 18, 2000
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Modus:

I may not understand all those reasons you listed, by I was convinced partitioning a big drive to smaller ones are useless a very long time ago.

Also, I'll be getting a 40GB drive pretty soon, it will be for storage only. But Im going with Win2K so Im not so sure if I NTFS is right for me. I heard that their clusters are actually 64KB, but you said its 512byte, is it worth the hassle getting NTFS?
 

Rakkis

Senior member
Apr 24, 2000
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Defraging would take a *long* time on a single 45 gig partition. If you end up only doing a single partition, do your defraging while you sleep.
 

Descend492

Senior member
Jul 10, 2000
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thanks for the replies guys...Modus, I haven't read your post yet (it's so friggin long, dude) but I will after I get back from a a walk with my family.

I have a few quick questions - Radboy, I'm not so sure if I'm going to have win98 even on the computer, so I should probably have win2k as my primary OS. Also, I would like to keep Linux on a separate drive (probably the 8 giger) to keep things simple. Will it be slower if I install games on a separate partition from the primary one the OS is installed on?

Also, NTSF is the new one designed for win2k, right? They say I should go with FAT32 because it's compatible with both win2k and win98, but not NTSF.

thanks again guys
 

Pariah

Elite Member
Apr 16, 2000
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Modus:

Your analysis of FAT32 slack is not particularly accurate. And is basically inaccurate when applied to the drive being discussed in this thread. Yes, FAT32 does help to reduce slack by offering smaller cluster sizes for larger partitions than FAT16 does, but that only applies to partition sizes that are becoming small by today's drives' sizes. I have 3 partitions under 10GB in size and they all waste practically nothing. Once you hit 16GB you have 16KB clusters which isn't very efficient, when you hit 32GB, your cluster size increases to 32KB clusters which is the same as a 2GB FAT16 partition, which is as bad as it will get for a FAT drive. The difference is, instead of wasting that much space on 2GB you are wasting the same percentage of space on a considerably larger drive. I have 2 60GB drives each with one partition they have a total of 40GB of data on them, 11.8GB of that is wasted space. More than a quarter of the storage space I am using is wasted. You still think a large FAT32 partition can't waste space?

If you have a drive 32GB or larger and you don't want to waste piles of storage, partition it into at least 2 paritions.

There definitely are benefits to having a smaller OS partition, especially if you dual boot. Try running scan disk and disk defrag regularly on a 45 GB partition, you'll want to kill yourself by the 3rd or 4th time. With a smaller partition, those 2 tasks can be done with much greater regularity on your important OS or apps partition. If you dual boot and share your apps between the 2 OS's, you can wipe one out and still have everything you need for the other. The benefit there is obvious.

The smartest way to partition a large drive if it is the only one you have is a small OS partition, a larger applications partition and everything else left for storage, be it mp3's or whatever.

Edit:
NTFS was first released with the original WindowsNT and has been updated with every new version. The current version in Win2k is NTFS 5. If you want guaranteed compatablity, stick with FAT32, if for no other reason than if you kill the drive, you can still use a win98 boot disk and DOS applications to try and recover it.
 

Rigoletto

Banned
Aug 6, 2000
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Someone stepped in a Modus again! Watch out!

Modus, do you have OCD or PPD? It's Christmas day, go and get laid or at least kiss your granny under the mistletoe... instead of posting long obsessive arguments as long as they fly against received logic!

Sucks to Modus, I partition big hard drives and I always will:p
 

Descend492

Senior member
Jul 10, 2000
522
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ok Modus, I read your post - very informative. So you're in favor of one huge 46 gig partition (assuming I'm going to have Linux on a separate drive)? Also, which file type do you recommend (FAT32 or NTSF)? I seemed to think NTSF. Somebody else mentioned you can specify what cluster size you want, but you said 512 bytes is the default...is this the best cluster size (maybe I should say most efficient)? Or was the piont of your post more to say that cluster size is irrelevant and any cluster size will do, and to just go with the 512 bytes?