just a thought, might offend someone, so yeah

novalogic88

Senior member
Jul 3, 2001
420
0
0
this is just one small posibility but since im bored so i might as well just write it out, the americans probably attacked themselves, just listen i know it sounds stupid, remember what happend in pearl habour, the president knew about pearl habour is gonna get bombed but he didnt warn them because he wanted to go to war but the people wont let me, so after japan attacked, the people in the US were mad as hell so he fight back.

Now the U.S might wanna declare war on somebody, i dont know who exactly but this is just a thought, the date of the attack was on 11th of 9(september), write it backward you'll get 911 which means emergency, i dont know whos behind this but i dont think is just the end.

JUST A THOUGHT, dont get too carried away
 

Static911

Diamond Member
Nov 24, 2000
4,338
1
0
hey, for all intensive purpose, AMERICAN's might be involved..maybe not directly flying the plane, but who knows

static911
 

spanky

Lifer
Jun 19, 2001
25,716
4
81
no way dood. knock down ur own multi-billion dollar landmark. murder thousands of ur own people. probably deflate an already flopping economy even more. there r easier ways to piss off ur own country and frame someone else for it. this isn't "wag the dog"
 

fobster

Member
Oct 13, 2000
71
0
0
could war help the economy?? i dont remember much bout history and i may be wrong but did WWII help the economy?? history not my strong subject
 

spanky

Lifer
Jun 19, 2001
25,716
4
81
my bad. i'm still upset/angered/disgusted by this sh!t. i look out the window and i should still see the WTC. there should still be 300+ firefighters and policemen playing cards and telling dirty jokes. 266 innocent people should be somewhere in california. thousands others should be sleeping in the comfort of their own homes right now. 9/11/01 was a horrible horrible day. :(
 

spanky

Lifer
Jun 19, 2001
25,716
4
81


<< could war help the economy?? i dont remember much bout history and i may be wrong but did WWII help the economy?? history not my strong subject >>




are u referring to my post?
 

FJ

Senior member
Jul 5, 2001
241
0
0
novalogic88 said:
this is just one small posibility but since im bored so i might as well just write it out, the americans probably attacked themselves, just listen i know it sounds stupid, remember what happend in pearl habour, the president knew about pearl habour is gonna get bombed but he didnt warn them because he wanted to go to war but the people wont let me, so after japan attacked, the people in the US were mad as hell so he fight back.

Now the U.S might wanna declare war on somebody, i dont know who exactly but this is just a thought, the date of the attack was on 11th of 9(september), write it backward you'll get 911 which means emergency, i dont know whos behind this but i dont think is just the end.

JUST A THOUGHT, dont get too carried away


Hmmm, just a thought, you didn't write it out very well...

If it's a small possibility, why did you write "the americans probably attacked themselves"... Shouldn't you write something like, it's a possibility that the Americans attacked themselves?

In addition, the example you cited was the Japanese attacking the Americans and the president letting it. It doesn't really support your argument... In addition, it's unknown and unclear whether FDR really knew about the attack on Pearl Harbor beforehand...

Is it a possibility that the US performed this terrorist act itself? Sure, it's possible... It just as possible that the Australian government thought up this whole scheme just because you're jealous that we gained more medals in the Olympics you hosted :) (Yes, that was a joke)...

F
 

spanky

Lifer
Jun 19, 2001
25,716
4
81
fob,

i didn't say anything about war helping the economy. here is what i did say:

probably deflate an already flopping economy even more

r we reading the same line?
 

fobster

Member
Oct 13, 2000
71
0
0


<< fob,

i didn't say anything about war helping the economy. here is what i did say:

probably deflate an already flopping economy even more

r we reading the same line?
>>



ok, i was taking into account of what novalogic88 was suggesting too which was a war on somebody. though we were on the same topic since this is his post
 

TRUMPHENT

Golden Member
Jan 20, 2001
1,414
0
0
You have way too much time on your hands. Plus, you are "Conspiracy Theory Freek". Roosevelt and the Navy knew the Japanese were building up and knew an attack was possible. The carriers were ferrying combat aircraft to Midway as fast as they could. Plus, the communications of the day were abysmal. Radar was so new that it wasn't well understood by the end users. President Roosevelt was a former Secretary of the Navy. There is no possibility that he allowed Pearl to be attacked.
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
0
Remember Oklahoma, it could be anyone.


Also, I suggest everyone to go and rent Arlington Road.
 

fobster

Member
Oct 13, 2000
71
0
0


<< Remember Oklahoma, it could be anyone.


Also, I suggest everyone to go and rent Arlington Road.
>>



yep cant rule out all possibilities
 

ChurchOfSubgenius

Platinum Member
Jan 25, 2001
2,310
0
0
Read a goddam book Nova, the president had no idea the Japanese were planning on an attack on Pearl Harbor, do you have ANY idea what the chain of events were that made up WWII? Try doing some research before you just make up history.
These were NOT America born people that did this.
The 11/9/01 = "911 emergency" link is totally ridiculous.
 

spanky

Lifer
Jun 19, 2001
25,716
4
81
ok, i was taking into account of what novalogic88 was suggesting too which was a war on somebody. though we were on the same topic since this is his post

i have no idea what u r talking about.

this is what i understand about novalogic88's original post: since bush really wants to kick some middle east ass, but the rest of the country is too passive about it, maybe the US is should frame a terrorist group for attacking the US. than the whole country will be pissed off and support bush's notion of kicking some middle east ass.

and this is my reply: no way dood. knock down ur own multi-billion dollar landmark. murder thousands of ur own people. probably deflate an already flopping economy even more. there r easier ways to piss off ur own country and frame someone else for it. this isn't "wag the dog"

novalogic88 suggested that this might be a conspiracy, and he stated his reasoning. then i replied to his post by arguing otherwise, and listed my reasoning.
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
0


<< These were NOT America born people that did this. >>



Like I said, REMEMBER OKLAHOMA!!
 

spanky

Lifer
Jun 19, 2001
25,716
4
81


<< Like I said, REMEMBER OKLAHOMA!! >>




that would be quite a shocker if this was an inside job :(
 

coder1

Senior member
Jul 29, 2000
433
0
0


<< i dont know who exactly but this is just a thought, the date of the attack was on 11th of 9(september), write it backward you'll get 911 >>



<sarcasm> Holy Crap, you might be onto something!...... </sarcasm>

I'm sorry but this is one of the stupidest statements I have ever heard.
 

fobster

Member
Oct 13, 2000
71
0
0


<< novalogic88 suggested that this might be a conspiracy, and he stated his reasoning. then i replied to his post by arguing otherwise, and listed my reasoning. >>



what im saying is maybe what novalogic88 suggested might not be impossible because if all this was done just to start a war then a reason for starting the war MIGHT help the economy

you were arguing that all this destruction just to start a war is impossible (im hoping this is your point cause im getting sleepy)

what im trying to say is maybe it could be possible ,if you see the big picture (assuming there is a big picture and not what you see is what you get), assuming a war will help the economy, i mean that's ASSUMING it can help the economy (since you state that the economy was your own words flopping) not saying that it would

im suggesting a reason to start a war and MAYBE the benefits of a war, and MAYBE all this to start a war isn't that impossible

hopes this makes sense
 

Zwingle

Golden Member
Jan 1, 2001
1,925
0
0
Some interesting notes about Pearl Harbor........from www.straightdope.com Thanks to Cecil.....

One is tempted at this point to decry the legacy of Richard M. Nixon, whose actions as President (and, some allege, as a presidential candidate) made generations of Americans unwilling to put any trust whatever in their leaders. In this view, Nixon helped besmirch the character of one of the most capable and beloved Presidents by making it possible to believe that Roosevelt would allow thousands of Americans be killed or wounded in order to further his own political goals.

That temptation evaporates when one discovers that such rumors started almost immediately after the bombing itself. In fact, Thomas Dewey (Republican candidate for President in 1944) tried to turn it into a campaign issue; he and several Republican senators claimed that "certain Japanese codes before Pearl Harbor" had been cracked, and that FDR "knew what was happening before Pearl Harbor, and instead of being re-elected he ought to be impeached." In the end, Dewey dropped the issue; partially because Army Chief of Staff General George Marshall provided evidence to the contrary, and partially because Dewey knew if he were to make such accusations in public, the Japanese government would realize that their codes had been compromised, which would prompt them to change their codes and cause serious hardship to future American operations.

On the face of it, there's a ring of truth to the rumor. The American military had broken some Japanese codes, and had received prior warning of an attack, both from notes they intercepted as well as notes the British cracked and passed on. Given that Marshall warned Pacific army commanders "the United States desires that Japan commits the first overt act," how hard is it to believe that Roosevelt allowed the surprise attack to occur in order to bring a vocally isolationist Congress and public into supporting war with Japan?

But let's look at each of these allegations in detail--you may note some flaws.

The American military had broken Japanese codes.

Yes. However, what they had broken were diplomatic codes. During the pre-war negotiations with Japan, Roosevelt often knew what the Japanese were prepared to offer and willing to settle for. The messages sent on December 6th made it perfectly clear to Roosevelt that the Japanese government was planning to declare war upon the United States.

So the American government knew an attack on Pearl Harbor was coming.

No. The Japanese government was not in the habit of informing its diplomats of planned military strikes in detail. So while the Americans knew that the Japanese message "Climb Niitakayama 1208" meant that a Japanese attack was planned on December 8th (Japanese time; December 7th U.S. time), they did not know where. The Pacific Ocean's a big place, and there were lots of targets available to the Japanese--the Philippines, Dutch East Indies, Singapore, etc. Admiral Stark recognized that the Japanese were planning to attack somewhere, but told his subordinates it would be "against either the Philippines, Thai, or Kra Peninsula or possibly Borneo."

But the carriers were out to sea on maneuvers, leaving behind several outdated battleships. So the Pearl Harbor attack wasn't nearly as successful as it could have been. Doesn't that mean that someone had ordered them to take precautions by sending out the carriers?

Try telling Roosevelt's staff and the navy that the Pearl Harbor attack wasn't nearly as successful as it could have been. Most of them believed that the Pearl Harbor attack had completely obliterated American strength in the Pacific.

As for the carriers, it would be another six months before their importance would be proven beyond a doubt, at the battle of Midway. At the time Pearl Harbor was attacked, nearly all naval leaders--including the Japanese--considered carriers and their aircraft best suited to reconnaissance. The real fighting would be left to the battleships, many of which were sunk or badly damaged after Pearl Harbor.

While the Americans knew some attack was coming, they did not know what type of attack. Had the air raid been followed up with an invasion, Pearl Harbor could not have held out for long, and the United States would have been without one of its major bases in the Pacific, in addition to having lost the fleet.

Even so, without the Japanese attack, America would never have declared war upon Japan.

Not true. Most people point to the August 1941 resolution to keep draftees on duty for more than twelve months, a measure that passed by the narrowest of margins, 203-202. But antiwar sentiment was waning quickly, especially in the wake of German U-boat attacks upon American vessels. In September, a poll showed 67 percent of the American public felt the United States should risk war rather than allow Japan to grow more powerful; 70 percent felt the United States should risk war with Germany. Many in Roosevelt's cabinet and the press felt that the President would have no difficulty in getting a declaration of war against Japan following the breakdown in peace negotiations in late November. But it was Roosevelt who refused to push the issue, instead waiting for Japan to make the first move.

In order to believe that Roosevelt knew about the coming Pearl Harbor attack but kept mum, you have to believe he had better information than any of his subordinates in the government or the military--information that since has been destroyed, since no one has been able to find it. Moreover, you have to believe that Roosevelt was willing to sacrifice most of the Pacific fleet, and possibly one of the most important American naval bases in the Pacific, probably crippling American operations against Japan for the next two years (by which time the Japanese would likely have taken over the Pacific and begun operations against the American West Coast) in order to gain public support for a measure the public already supported by a two-to-one margin. You also have to believe that Roosevelt--who had been Assistant Secretary of the Navy, who always claimed that if he hadn't gotten into politics he would have liked to have been an admiral, whose first campaign song for President was "Anchors Aweigh" (before being replaced by the more appropriate and upbeat "Happy Days Are Here Again")--would countenance the deaths of thousands of U.S. sailors for a few extra votes in Congress--again, for a measure that many observers felt would pass easily.

War has always been good for the economy......jobs are created......workers are more productive.....this attack is just what GB needs to fix the economy and save his ass.
 

ChurchOfSubgenius

Platinum Member
Jan 25, 2001
2,310
0
0
So what you are saying is that a large group of Americans, under orders of our president, killed themselves and thousands of others, brutally, in order to start a war with people who might have weapon of MASS destruction, to bump the economy?
Grow a brain, this is the work of suicidal fanatics. Not American secret service or military operatives.

EDIT: This is not a reply to you Zwingle, thanks for all the info.
 

fobster

Member
Oct 13, 2000
71
0
0
thats y it's an opinion and thats y i made it as ambiguous as possible with the ASSUMINGs and MAYBEs, not saying that an event of such is possible and not saying it's impossible, but did not want to rule it out,

wow ppl on this forum are pretty damn rude they want to shut you up the moment they dont agree with you, if you dont see the logic in it or if you feel there's no logic in it that's fine but have some self respect and respect for others makes you wonder y some ppl dont like americans
 

Jzero

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
18,834
1
0
War DOES help the economy--the industrial demands created by a war always give the economy a boost. Unfortunately, the flipside is that the post-war flop in demand almost inevitably draws a recession. I have heard theories that since the economy is flagging, that the US would provoke another Gulf-style war (short-lived with few casualties) just to give the econ a little shot.

Not long after, we resumed airstrikes in Iraq, supposedly in retaliation for infractions caused by Iraq....but how do we know this is true? Who has seen Wag The Dog?

Anyway, if the US was trying to artificially provoke a war, I don't think they would sacrifice the lives of thousands of innocents, and cause the destruction of a national landmark.
Not to mention, the "perpetrator" has no nationality. Who, exactly, are we at war with? The uneducated say things like "Arabs" and "Muslims" but those 2 words encompass millions, if not over a billion people, none of whom had anything to do with this. Who are you going to whack? India? Pakistan? Malaysia? The Taleban? Iraq? Iran? Egypt? Syria? Palestine?

If they were trying to incite a war, they would have used missles and said "We traced the telemetry back to [insert rogue nation]!" And go to town.