Junior Senator Franken Kicks Conservative Ass -again

[Steeplerot]

Franken takes on another insurance lackey.

don't mind Cenk he gets to the point sooner or later

The look on this womans face as she gets owned and the "uhh I guess its zero" nice to see Dems with spine lately.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

:laugh: you leftists are hilarious.
1. Who says she is a "Conservative"? She may be, but she was there representing an org/business/whatever - not a party or ideology.
2. "owned"? Puhleeze. Franken and you fringe leftists can spin the figures how you wish, but it still doesn't mean the socialist way is better. It may prevent individual bankruptcies but at what cost? Seems Franken didn't like it when she pulled her facts out - he just tried to dismiss them as spin - which is exactly what his BS was - spin.
3. Why can't you leftists be upfront about your desire for a singlepayer system and let the people of America debate that instead of trying to do it the backdoor way with this "public option" BS?

 

[FaaR]

Where Franken failed in his line of questioning was to push her on her reasoning how exactly she figured people not paying for their health care would lead to an increase in medical bankruptcy rates. All he did was call her out on her bullshit in a roundabout way, but that's not really that interesting in comparison.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
It may prevent individual bankruptcies but at what cost?

Here's the "cost": "socialist" systems spend half of what we do on healthcare costs and have universal coverage and no bankruptcies.

Oh boy, those Europeans and Asians are suffering mightily. Why can't they experience the joys of medical bankruptcies like we do? Oh that's right, they don't have fucking idiots called "Republicans" screwing up their countries.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: FaaR
Where Franken failed in his line of questioning was to push her on her reasoning how exactly she figured people not paying for their health care would lead to an increase in medical bankruptcy rates. All he did was call her out on her bullshit in a roundabout way, but that's not really that interesting in comparison.

She really was not worth it, she was not even prepared with basic statistics, they should have just tossed her out the door for wasting taxpayer money making reps listen to more industry lies. What would be the point in pushing this farther as far as questioning?
She is obviously clueless besides her industry prepared talking point.

 

[Patranus]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
It may prevent individual bankruptcies but at what cost?

Here's the "cost": "socialist" systems spend half of what we do on healthcare costs and have universal coverage and no bankruptcies.

Oh boy, those Europeans and Asians are suffering mightily. Why can't they experience the joys of medical bankruptcies like we do? Oh that's right, they don't have fucking idiots called "Republicans" screwing up their countries.

Care to point out where in the UNITED STATES Constitution it grants congress the authority to deploy a government option or universal health care?

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Franken and you fringe leftists

Fringe? Oh, you mean a Senator, in the majority party.

But at least you got in a lil omgsocialism fear-mongering and a smiley.

Good job, here's a star with a wee elephant on it.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Patranus

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
It may prevent individual bankruptcies but at what cost?

Here's the "cost": "socialist" systems spend half of what we do on healthcare costs and have universal coverage and no bankruptcies.

Oh boy, those Europeans and Asians are suffering mightily. Why can't they experience the joys of medical bankruptcies like we do? Oh that's right, they don't have fucking idiots called "Republicans" screwing up their countries.

Care to point out where in the UNITED STATES Constitution it grants congress the authority to deploy a government option or universal health care?

Socialists don't care about the Constitution's limits on the Federal gov't.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Socialists don't care about the Constitution's limits on the Federal gov't.

You should see what we do with puppies and kittens! :evil:

 

[PJABBER]

I wish the commentator would just stop talking as he comes off as just another MSNBC wannabe.

Franken is being disingenuous in the cited clip - the Europeans have a much different perspective on what constitutes bankruptcy than the U.S. In fact it is damn difficult to get what we might refer to as a "bankruptcy discharge" in Europe.

I am really tempted to post a Wall O' Text here as I work with this kind of thing, but here is a brief layman's summary for those who care to get into the topic -

THE ROLE OF HISTORY AND CULTURE IN DEVELOPING BANKRUPTCY AND INSOLVENCY SYSTEMS: THE PERILS OF LEGAL TRANSPLANTATION

(The above WWW site is from Boston College's Law School and the web formatting they use to properly align the huge number of footnotes and legal references in the document may require you to install Bitstream's Web Font ActiveX control if you try to access the document from Internet Explorer. Users of Firefox and other browsers can go directly to the document. If you only use IE and don't care to install the font control, you can go to Google Search, search for the document title and then click through to the cached copy which will show without the font control)

I would give Franken a FAIL on technical merit for his comments, though he does get a Registered Democrat for coming off again as an embarrassing fool. Oh yeah, that's a role he's played before, isn't it?

BTW, who IS that staffer sitting behind Franken?

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: FaaR
Where Franken failed in his line of questioning was to push her on her reasoning how exactly she figured people not paying for their health care would lead to an increase in medical bankruptcy rates. All he did was call her out on her bullshit in a roundabout way, but that's not really that interesting in comparison.

Do you seriously believe she wouldn't have given the reasoning if she had any? Come on.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Patranus

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
It may prevent individual bankruptcies but at what cost?

Here's the "cost": "socialist" systems spend half of what we do on healthcare costs and have universal coverage and no bankruptcies.

Oh boy, those Europeans and Asians are suffering mightily. Why can't they experience the joys of medical bankruptcies like we do? Oh that's right, they don't have fucking idiots called "Republicans" screwing up their countries.

Care to point out where in the UNITED STATES Constitution it grants congress the authority to deploy a government option or universal health care?

I would start with:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: PJABBER
- the Europeans have a much different perspective on what constitutes bankruptcy than the U.S. In fact it is damn difficult to get what we might refer to as a "bankruptcy discharge" in Europe.

Maybe it's because they removed involuntary bankruptcies like medical bankruptcies, they can be more stringent with bankruptcies involving reckless behavior (i.e. credit card bankruptcies).

What's embarrassing is, the only fool is you, you haven't disproved Franken's facts.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: Patranus

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
It may prevent individual bankruptcies but at what cost?

Here's the "cost": "socialist" systems spend half of what we do on healthcare costs and have universal coverage and no bankruptcies.

Oh boy, those Europeans and Asians are suffering mightily. Why can't they experience the joys of medical bankruptcies like we do? Oh that's right, they don't have fucking idiots called "Republicans" screwing up their countries.

Care to point out where in the UNITED STATES Constitution it grants congress the authority to deploy a government option or universal health care?

Do me a favor: stop using public roads and the internet since you're so offended by the government getting involved with stuff it shouldn't be

 

[BriGy86]

I suppose he technically is correct. If people don't have to pay for health care they wont go bankrupt paying for it because the price is free. But you also have to take into account how much the quality will degrade which is why she brought up the cancer statistic.

I also found it odd that according to him, his statistics were valid while hers were bogus. And that right there isn't biased?

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Phokus


What's embarrassing is, the only fool is you, you haven't disproved Franken's facts.

He is just doing the old ninja move: if-fact-fail-spout-random-statistic

As if in this video she didn't get slapped down for doing the same thing lol.

 

[Thump553]

DON"T CLICK ON PJABBER"S LINK (TWO POSTS ABOVE). It apparently has some popup in it, it locked up my browser-twice.

Too bad-I was interested in seeing if PJ was going to spin a tail that the rise in bankruptcy is because of the "I want now" mentality. I've been doing personal bankruptcies as a part of my practice for over twenty years. I can only list one ex-client who was a spendthrift who squanderied his way into bankruptcy. Money mismanagement (and bad luck) have a lot to do with the need for many bankruptcies, but medical bills are a major factor, it not the most important one, in the vast majority of cases I've personally handled.

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: Patranus

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
It may prevent individual bankruptcies but at what cost?

Here's the "cost": "socialist" systems spend half of what we do on healthcare costs and have universal coverage and no bankruptcies.

Oh boy, those Europeans and Asians are suffering mightily. Why can't they experience the joys of medical bankruptcies like we do? Oh that's right, they don't have fucking idiots called "Republicans" screwing up their countries.

Care to point out where in the UNITED STATES Constitution it grants congress the authority to deploy a government option or universal health care?

The same place in the Constitution it says that the goverment can create a system called Medicare, or Medicaid, or Social Security. The same place it says that government can create pensions for government jobs. The same place in the Constitution it says that the government can pass laws that protect people with disabilities; that outlaw discrimination on the basis of gender, religion, or race; or that create programs that go to the moon or launch the Hubble telescope or provide grants for the arts or assistance with tuition.

Naturally, someone of your intellect thinks that if it's not verbatim in the Constitution, it's not Constitutional. And, therefore, that all government programs that don't have to do with defense or interstate commmerce should be banned. Somehow, even the most conservative Supreme Courts disagree with you.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Heh, looks like no one knows the first thing about health care in DC

 

[PJABBER]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: PJABBER
- the Europeans have a much different perspective on what constitutes bankruptcy than the U.S. In fact it is damn difficult to get what we might refer to as a "bankruptcy discharge" in Europe.

Maybe it's because they removed involuntary bankruptcies like medical bankruptcies, they can be more stringent with bankruptcies involving reckless behavior (i.e. credit card bankruptcies).

What's embarrassing is, the only fool is you, you haven't disproved Franken's facts.

I'll keep this to a general comment as I am heading out for a manly one hour BTTW mountain bike ride, but doesn't it seem to you that Franken using statistics from overseas legal systems that virtually disallow bankruptcy for any cause is misleading at best?

You can look up the bankruptcy codes for all the cited countries yourself. It isn't that hard. Do I have to do ALL of your heavy lifting for you? No wonder we now have several threads going on and on about hissy girly Democrats.

(My apologies if you are actually of the female or trans gender option!)

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Franken's point might be almost relevant, but for the fact that Franken cites other countries and their policies, none of which are on the table. There would be a fine imposed on those who don't have health care, in essence guaranteeing they'll have insurance whether they can afford it or not. Universal coverage by punishment. Cool!

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I would start with:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

that's not a grant of power.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I would start with:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

that's not a grant of power.

Whatever that is. It's a statement of the purpose of government and an indication of intention.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
2. "owned"? Puhleeze. Franken and you fringe leftists can spin the figures how you wish, but it still doesn't mean the socialist way is better. It may prevent individual bankruptcies but at what cost? Seems Franken didn't like it when she pulled her facts out - he just tried to dismiss them as spin - which is exactly what his BS was - spin.

At what cost? Other nations are doing it for a much smaller percentage of GDP than what the U.S. spends while leaving tens of millions of people uninsured or under-insured. Watch this video to learn more:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/...ne/sickaroundtheworld/

You don't need to be a rocket scientist to realize that socialized medicine is superior and more efficient than the current American system, but you do need to be a town hall moron to ignore the facts once they have been put in front of you.

 

[PJABBER]

Originally posted by: Thump553
DON"T CLICK ON PJABBER"S LINK (TWO POSTS ABOVE). It apparently has some popup in it, it locked up my browser-twice.

Too bad-I was interested in seeing if PJ was going to spin a tail that the rise in bankruptcy is because of the "I want now" mentality. I've been doing personal bankruptcies as a part of my practice for over twenty years. I can only list one ex-client who was a spendthrift who squanderied his way into bankruptcy. Money mismanagement (and bad luck) have a lot to do with the need for many bankruptcies, but medical bills are a major factor, it not the most important one, in the vast majority of cases I've personally handled.

The above WWW site I linked to is from Boston College's Law School and the web formatting they use to properly align the huge number of footnotes in the document may require you to install Bitstream's Web Font ActiveX control if you try to access the document from Internet Explorer. Users of Firefox and other browsers can go directly to the document. If you only use IE and don't care to install the font control, you can go to Google Search, search for the document title and then click through to the cached copy which will show without the font control.

Happy reading!