Jumping into 4K world. Dell P2715Q, no brainer at 520 bucks.

Hugo Drax

Diamond Member
Nov 20, 2011
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WOW 4K 27inch LED IPS computer monitors. how times have changed. My favorite standard monitor which I have plenty (trading workstations) is the great standby Dell U2412M monitor. (Solid choice 24incher)

Ordered one as a test to see how it compares. I have an R9 285 Tonga based videocard to attach.

Can the R9 285 handle two 4K monitors at 60hz if I plug each into its own mini display port? IF this is the case then I can see replacing the 2412Ms with these for the workstations.

(All workstations are built the same spec, case ie: Node 304's R9 285s and i7 ivy bridge)

Amazing how cheap these monitors are for what you are getting. anyone own one?
 

Kenmitch

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,505
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Should be in the displays subforum.

Should work fine as long as your not talking gaming.
 

tential

Diamond Member
May 13, 2008
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The no brainer is the UHD650 from Wasabi Mango for what looks to be $1500-1600?
for 65 inches, 4K, Freesync, it's still a monitor so good input lag times?

Yes!

So I guess we can make any monitor look like a no brainer if it's what we like =D.

I'd personally go for the Wasabi Mango UHD420 in that price range, but again, we're 2 different types of 4K buyers.
 

slag

Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
10,473
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The no brainer is the UHD650 from Wasabi Mango for what looks to be $1500-1600?
for 65 inches, 4K, Freesync, it's still a monitor so good input lag times?

Yes!

So I guess we can make any monitor look like a no brainer if it's what we like =D.

I'd personally go for the Wasabi Mango UHD420 in that price range, but again, we're 2 different types of 4K buyers.


I think $1500 or more for a monitor is insane.. actually, I think $500 for a monitor is insane, but then, we are a weird group. A 65 inch monitor makes no sense. Most people have desks 3-4 feet deep at best and a 65 inch monitor is just too large for that space. 24-40 inches is about the most realistically you would want on a desk or mounted on a wall with a desk in front.
 

railven

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2010
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I've decided to stick to 1440p until one card can drive 4K at around 60 FPS.

And if the Nvidia tax on Gsync is still around when that happens, I might have to look are FreeSync and whatever AMD puts on the table.
 

tential

Diamond Member
May 13, 2008
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I've decided to stick to 1440p until one card can drive 4K at around 60 FPS.

And if the Nvidia tax on Gsync is still around when that happens, I might have to look are FreeSync and whatever AMD puts on the table.

I just consider it to be a TV that I'm buying. And it's cheaper than the last TV I bought, so I'm ok with it.
I just am having trouble pushing myself to buy a card I know is a bad deal. The Fury X is literally one of the worst performance per dollar cards. I can't buy that....
perfdollar_3840.gif
 

tential

Diamond Member
May 13, 2008
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I think $1500 or more for a monitor is insane.. actually, I think $500 for a monitor is insane, but then, we are a weird group. A 65 inch monitor makes no sense. Most people have desks 3-4 feet deep at best and a 65 inch monitor is just too large for that space. 24-40 inches is about the most realistically you would want on a desk or mounted on a wall with a desk in front.

I use an 80 inch projector, 70 inch LED HDTV(not in the same room! Eventually when I have a house though for an entertainment room. Always thought it'd be cool to have 3 big screens in one room.), and hopefully this 65 inch Wasabi Mango. Don't have a desk setup yet. I used one with my gaming laptop, then when I got my TV, I realized that I prefered hooking up my laptop to my TV and gaming. Never went back, you can use a PC anywhere. It doesn't have to be at a desk. Every screen has a PC attached. It makes the device infinitely more powerful.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
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The no brainer is the UHD650 from Wasabi Mango for what looks to be $1500-1600?
for 65 inches, 4K, Freesync, it's still a monitor so good input lag times?

Yes!

How about the AMH A409U UHD 40" 3840X2160 16:9 4K LED Monitor 60Hz DP1.2 HDMI2.0 for $599? Seems like the best 4K monitor for screen size too. I think I would have tried this one over the Dell as I'd sacrifice the better colors on the IPS for superior blacks and whites on a VA and 40" screen size is imho way better than 27" for immersion factor and movies. I think 27" is way too small but to each his own. The 409U should also get FreeSync support in the future via a USB firmware flash.

But ya, while 4K monitors are becoming more affordable, 4K GPU setups are far from it right now. I suppose one could game at 1080P on a 4K monitor to minimize artifacts of non-native resolution but even browsing in W10 at such high DPI might be problematic.

I think $1500 or more for a monitor is insane.. actually, I think $500 for a monitor is insane, but then, we are a weird group.

Depends on the usage model. I paid $800 for my 37" Westinghouse in the summer of 2007. Only this summer I upgraded to a 32" 1440P in BenQ BL3200PT. That means it only cost me $100 per year to enjoy various media on the Westy and it still works. So if you think about keeping a monitor for 5-8 years, $500-1000 amortized on annual basis is cheaper than buying a flagship $500-1000 card that obsolete quicker. Plus, the monitor is used for various mediums and can be used for work. Furthermore, unless the monitor breaks, it can be used on a secondary PC for years to come after you upgrade.

I am waiting to jump to 4K once GPUs become way more powerful and also waiting to see what happens to GSync vs. FreeSync.

I am still not 100% sold on 4K for now. With 34" 3440x1440 monitors now hitting 100Hz and GSync, 4K limited to 60Hz without any A-Sync doesn't seem like the home.

It will be interesting to see if 16nm HBM2 GPUs will jump start the huge wave of upgrades to 4K because in the last 2 years the update of 4K has still been very slow for PC gaming.

24-40 inches is about the most realistically you would want on a desk or mounted on a wall with a desk in front.

I agree. 40-42" is probably the max sweet spot size for 4K as a PC gaming monitor, possibly 43-46" if one has a desk with significant depth of 2 feet+.

I had the 24" version (prefer quality over quantity when it comes to screen size vs pixel density),

You are probably one of the few people on these boards who prefers a 24" 4K over 27-65" 4K gaming experience. Also, chances are moving forward, all the best 4K displays as far as color reproduction, black levels, contrast ratio will be premium/high-end models and those tend to be in larger sizes (this is also true for various 2560x1440/3440x1440 displays). I mean unless you have eagle vision in moving games, the loss of immersion factor of a tiny 24" monitor is massive compared to a 32-40" one. To improve anti-aliasing, one can always enable more AA filters, including FXAA/TXAA, etc. However, I can't just make a 24" monitor into a 37-40" one. Also, using the 24" 4K monitor for other tasks like productivity is guaranteed to be atrocious with W10 scaling.
 
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EliteRetard

Diamond Member
Mar 6, 2006
6,490
1,021
136
WOW 4K 27inch LED IPS computer monitors. how times have changed. My favorite standard monitor which I have plenty (trading workstations) is the great standby Dell U2412M monitor. (Solid choice 24incher)

Ordered one as a test to see how it compares. I have an R9 285 Tonga based videocard to attach.

Can the R9 285 handle two 4K monitors at 60hz if I plug each into its own mini display port? IF this is the case then I can see replacing the 2412Ms with these for the workstations.

(All workstations are built the same spec, case ie: Node 304's R9 285s and i7 ivy bridge)

Amazing how cheap these monitors are for what you are getting. anyone own one?

You buy that monitor yet? Just last week I ordered one for $450 shipped. $520 seems like the new regular price for this monitor, and even a 5-10% discount somewhere can save a notable amount of coin. Pretty sure I got mine from Adorama...but there are a bunch of places offering it now.

Basically, if you aint placed your order yet, it might be worth it to look around a bit.
 

tential

Diamond Member
May 13, 2008
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642
121
Ya RS, so thank god I'm not playing new games. I doubt I'll ever be at a point where I need to spend $1000 on GPUs to play games at 4K. It'll cost me $650 maybe at some points, but not $1000 as I just am never on new games, and there are a lot of games on Dolphin Emulator and Wii U I haven't layed. So many games for me to be worried a bout the latest game that just came out.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
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I don't know how people can still stomach sub-100dpi displays after looking at their high dpi mobile devices all day (with even budget phones being around 300dpi these days).

DPI calculation is not as simple as entering resolution and screen size and coming up with a DPI as seen here. I do not look at my 1080P 15.6" laptop screen or my 32" 1440P screen at the same distance as I view my phone.

4K at 46"? No thanks.

Using your logic a 4" iPhone 5/5S or any other smartphone has a superior display than a 1080P 55" LG OLED TV, 32" 1440P BenQ BL3200PT, 34" Acer X34 3440x1440 100Hz with GSync, etc.

If you only compare screens based on DPI, then I don't know what to tell you really. All I can say is any reasonable or logical discussion cannot be had with you at that point then. DPI/PPI is just 1 factor of many that matters.

Did you ever look at Samsung S6/Note 5's displays? It's not the pixels that make them amazing but everything else. This is evident when we go down to a lower PPI Samsung S5 and it still looks amazing.

Like I said, you are free to buy what you want but I bet any $$ that most PC gamers would much prefer a 4K 32-40" monitor if given the same price levels against a 24" one.

27" seems like the sweet spot for 4K to me, striking a nice balance between pixel density and size (assuming your software scales), although I prefer 24". Large monitor "immersion factor" is nice, but I'll wait until I can get one at ~200dpi.

I guess you have insane vision or are very sensitive to pixels.

As I am typing this, I am sitting 22-24" from my 15.6" 1080P laptop and I can hardly discern individual pixels in 2D or 3D unless I really make an effort to do so which isn't realistic for 8-10 hour workdays or 4-5 hour gaming/media consumption.

Further to my point earlier, when finding a calculator that accounts for distance when measuring DPI, on a 15.6" screen with 1080P, P"]PI becomes ~300 at 24" on what is a 141 PPI screen otherwise.

Taking this idea further, on one of my work desks I have a 37" monitor positioned exactly 32" from my face. If I were to replace the said monitor with a 4K 40" one, at only 31" the monitor reaches Retina status or PPI of 300+. My desk though has another 7" of depth behind the existing 37" monitor so theoretically I could also buy a 46" 4K monitor and move it 7" back on the desk. I would then sit 32" + 7 = 39" away from the 46" 4K monitor. That monitor's pixels reach Retina (300 PPI) status at just 36 inches.

So once again, in the real world a 40" 4K or a 46" 4K monitor can easily become a 300 PPI monitor, thus easily exceeding your required 200 PPI number you outlined above.
http://isthisretina.com/

Thus, I do not follow the logic in your argument at all based on the criteria you have outlined. You seem to be calculating PPI without taking the viewing distance as a key context. This is not how PPI calculations work for humans in the real world. For example, the farther you sit from the monitor, the less pixels the human eye can resolve so the comparison you made of a 96 PPI 46" 4K monitor for gaming to a 300 PPI smartphone is flawed because at real world viewing distance when gaming at a desk in a chair, it's easily realistic that a 37-46" 4K monitor would be at 300 PPI.

If you are going to make the argument that the human eye can resolve 500-800 PPI ratings then that would be a different story but then we quickly get into insane land of diminishing returns while the immersion factor of a 37-46" 4K gaming screen demolishes the tiny 24" 4K.

and there are a lot of games on Dolphin Emulator and Wii U I haven't layed. So many games for me to be worried a bout the latest game that just came out.

I read somewhere that either Wii or Wii U games can only be emulated on an NV card? Was that true or?
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
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There's a new LG Freesync 27" 4k for <$550. It was actually $500 yesterday, so it should be that price again sometime soon enough.
 

JoeRambo

Golden Member
Jun 13, 2013
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Wow. 24" 4k is just plain madness. Needs scaling and perfect one too. I don't need anyone's word on it. I work on 27" at home and 32" at work. Both are 1440P and I STRONGLY PREFER 32". There is simply no way in the world I would be buying or recommending anyone 24 or 27" 4k display.

No need for science or retina bs from anyone, there is a reason why 1080P ~23-24" was pretty much standard it many offices for 10 years. At average office viewing distances, for average person with average vision it was just right. Guess what - that 32" has ~same PPI as that "average" and is being consumed ~same distance too.

P.S. I do understand that there are people with eagle eye vison and/or vision processing features/defects that allow them to see pixels.
 

borderdeal

Member
Aug 4, 2013
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I guess it is really subjective and what you do with your monitor. I use mine 80% for work and then the rest for gaming. I had a 27" 1440p and I had to sell it because text was just too small for me. I just got a 49" 4k monitor and I think for me it is the perfect size for 4k. Gaming looks incredible in 4k. Granted I had to go CF to be able to play games at 4k. Even though the 27" had higher dpi density I like this monitor far better for gaming and for work there is no comparison. the minimum for me for a 4k monitor would be 42". I would not touch a 24-27" 4k monitor but then again to each their own and that is why there is a market for a 24" 4k monitor.
 

borderdeal

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Aug 4, 2013
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Yes, except for the whole retina question of when does DPI stop making a difference. That's not subjective, and the answer is most certainly well above 300dpi at 10-12". With vernier acuity taken into account (the point I was making about aliasing), it's more like 500-1000dpi.

One can argue the point of 'diminishing returns'. That is totally subjective, but that's not what I was trying to refute.



That was a scaling problem, not a dpi problem. I acknowledged in my very first post the importance of scaling. If your software can't scale, then high dpi displays are obviously impractical. Assuming perfect scaling and sufficient GPU power, there's no question that your 49" monitor would look better at, say, 8k than it does at 4K. Text rendering would be improved, and in gaming aliasing would be reduced and more detail would be resolved. Once you saw it you would never want to go back.

Problem is that I do not really see the aliasing even when I had my 1080p 23" monitor. I have never cared and will never care for it. I can see big differences with textures and so that is what I focus on.

I am not saying it does not make a difference since some people are really sensitive to it. I am not and always turn it off if I can or lower it as mush to save on power and concentrate on other settings. I would love the 8k resolution I am pretty sure but not because of the aliasing but because of the extra detail which I do notice and the extra space for work
 

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
14,612
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Y'all are talking down "retina," but Jeez I would love a 27 inch 4k monitor just for that reason. I would make OSX do the same DPI trick it does on retina Macs and enjoy the crisp text. I wish Windows could do that trick as well as OSX can. I don't need more screen real estate than 1080p in 2015, but it is always a shock going from the iPad to the desktop especially after El Capitan's new font. I am scared of any 4k monitor that isn't single stream though and only the expensive ones aren't.
 
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Hugo Drax

Diamond Member
Nov 20, 2011
5,647
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91
Y'all are talking down "retina," but Jeez I would love a 27 inch 4k monitor just for that reason. I would make OSX do the same DPI trick it does on retina Macs and enjoy the crisp text. I wish Windows could do that trick as well as OSX can. I don't need more screen real estate than 1080p in 2015, but it is always a shock going from the iPad to the desktop especially after El Capitan's new font. I am scared of any 4k monitor that isn't single stream though and only the expensive ones aren't.

This new dell is SST and IPS as well and comes precalibrated. I could not find a place cheaper than 520. I ordered from B&H they ship quick and it arrives monday.

I will see how it works out. I cannot complain, 520 for an IPS 4K monitor is pretty good. I have been happy with all the Dell monitors I have owned. Also B&H is a solid vendor, I have ordered plenty of stuff through them no issue.