Rob M.
"
And the mantra of: "live and let live" only applies when its something we agree with, no Atheist or religious person truly lives by that, period"
You're full of it. I and the other atheists I know really don't care what others do as long as they respect the rights of others. they don't need our approval or agreement.
I don't do drugs (other than occasional drink), but I don't care if you do.
I don't screw goats, but I don't care if you do.
I'm not into gay sex, gay marriage, S&M, prostitution, polygamy, etc., but I don't care if you are.
I'm not into praying, supporting religion, elaborate funerals and weddings, but I don't care if you are.
I'm not a conscientious objector, but I don't care if you are.
You need to get out more!
"
And the mantra of: "live and let live" only applies when its something we agree with, no Atheist or religious person truly lives by that, period"
You're full of it. I and the other atheists I know really don't care what others do as long as they respect the rights of others. they don't need our approval or agreement.
I don't do drugs (other than occasional drink), but I don't care if you do.
I don't screw goats, but I don't care if you do.
I'm not into gay sex, gay marriage, S&M, prostitution, polygamy, etc., but I don't care if you are.
I'm not into praying, supporting religion, elaborate funerals and weddings, but I don't care if you are.
I'm not a conscientious objector, but I don't care if you are.
You need to get out more!
The "live and let live" philosophy is flawed for this reason. Why do you think alcohol and drug rehab clinics are generally used and open to those (for a fee, granted) who have problems fighting addictions? Becuase I believe someone cares enough about them to at least make help available. "Live and let live" simply means I don't give a crap if you die of a drug overdose -- its not affecting me... I'm gonna let stuff ride... "live and let live", right?
That can be an extremely selfish philosophy, whereas the Golden Rule, by definition, is a totallly selfless one.
They aren't anywhere near closely related.
AS far as the case goes, a couple people are trying to force their beliefs on those who are into Yoga via court system, and have failed thus far. You don't like it, don't go to the class. But they want to force everyone to not benefit from the advatages of Yoga.
Rob M.
You create facts not in evidence in your argument.
Nowhere did I disparage offering help to anyone who has need of it, nor did I advocate isolating each person to their own social island. I have donated to charities, personally offered help to people, served in the military, etc..
Allowing people to pursue their own path to happiness in no way equates to condemning them to suffer the consequences of poor choices by themselves. There are indeed some that think they ended up with what they deserve, but in my experience they are generally the type who would have restricted their choices from the beginning.
And your example of drug rehab? The number of people that have used drugs is at least an order of magnitude larger than those that have wanted or needed rehab. Any activity can be pushed to a level with negative outcomes.
You create facts not in evidence in your argument.
Nowhere did I disparage offering help to anyone who has need of it, nor did I advocate isolating each person to their own social island. I have donated to charities, personally offered help to people, served in the military, etc..
Allowing people to pursue their own path to happiness in no way equates to condemning them to suffer the consequences of poor choices by themselves. There are indeed some that think they ended up with what they deserve, but in my experience they are generally the type who would have restricted their choices from the beginning.
And your example of drug rehab? The number of people that have used drugs is at least an order of magnitude larger than those that have wanted or needed rehab. Any activity can be pushed to a level with negative outcomes.
DominionSeraph
Diamond Member
- Jul 22, 2009
- 8,391
- 31
- 91
"The judge said that the opponents of the yoga class were relying on information culled from the Internet and other unreliable sources."
Hallmark of the conservatard.
(link posted after your post, though)
As a retired yoga teacher, I'm concerned about this idea of teaching yoga as a watered-down fitness program. There's more to yoga than that.
We tried live and let live when Hitler destroyed Europe, but eventually they attacked us also. So it just does not work. When we dont speak out against evil or do nothing, eventually it will consume us. The Jews tried this philosophy also.
The big problem is when opposing sides are both evil. What then?
The big problem is when opposing sides are both evil. What then?
Matt1970
Lifer
- Mar 19, 2007
- 12,320
- 3
- 0
sandorski
No Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
- 70,100
- 5,640
- 126
Like RobM, you are using the term in an extreme way. The purpose of it is to guide Your actions, not the actions of others. When someone like Hitler does their thing, the person with the "Live and let live" philosophy does not just dismiss those actions as Hitler's choice. They are clearly wrong and the Live and let Live kind will oppose, even to the point of Killing the Hitlers and their henchmen.
Kadarin
Lifer
- Nov 23, 2001
- 44,303
- 15
- 81
Christian fundies are actually pretty scared of yoga: http://www.cbn.com/health/fitness/bagby_yoga-alternative.aspx and http://www.todayschristianwoman.com/articles/2005/march/14.40.html
You mean like how atheists are scared of being told "Thou shalt not steal"?
That's funny, atheists are extremely underrepresented in the prison population.
http://holysmoke.org/icr-pri.htm
It seems as though all the stealing is done by Catholics, Protestants, and Muslims. Atheists already know not to steal, it's Christians that need to be reminded.
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That's the point. There are too many flaws in the "Live and let live" mantra, while there aren't any in the Golden Rule... the two aren't comparable.
sandorski
No Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
- 70,100
- 5,640
- 126
No, they are essentially the same thing. Both are primarily concerned with the First persons choice towards others. Both find a Hitler type to be evil and worthy of stopping.
That's funny, atheists are extremely underrepresented in the prison population.
http://holysmoke.org/icr-pri.htm
It seems as though all the stealing is done by Catholics, Protestants, and Muslims. Atheists already know not to steal, it's Christians that need to be reminded.
There are more believers than there are non-believers by an astronomically large number (generally speaking), so of course you are going to see a disparity of numbers in prisons.
The same could be said about there being more corrupt white politicians than there are black ones, but does that mean black politicians aren't corrupt? By your logic, yep -- whites need to be reminded not to steal.
You're wrong. The first person choice with the Golden rule is always to sacrifice comfort for the benefit of someone else -- the other entails not sacrificing anything and taking a rather passive attitude.
sandorski
No Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
- 70,100
- 5,640
- 126
No, the Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you
How does that "sacrifice comfort"? It merely states that how you treat others is determined on how you would prefer to be treated. This actually has it's own flaws, but that's another discussion.
Live and let Live is somewhat passive, I agree, but both creeds purpose is to avoid Offending others. As such, they both generally succeed, certainly enough that they work most of the time.
Well, with the Golden Rule, I assume ALL people want respect, so give it (a sacrifice) even if you don't think a person deserves it. You may find comfort in cussin' him out as he did you, but you refrain. That's just an example.
That CAN be flawed if a person doesn't care how he's treated and treats other the same way, but we both are intelligent enough to know that's not what that rule is meant to convey, much like the live and let live doesn't mean to sit idly by and watch [Hitler] slaughter millions, which I though was more extreme that I took it.
But I can see where you come from, though.
DominionSeraph
Diamond Member
- Jul 22, 2009
- 8,391
- 31
- 91
18% if you include agnostics (the prison numbers had no agnostics so there are either 0 agnostics on prison or they're pooled with atheists).
So:
Atheists/agnostics make up 18% of the population but only 0.209% of the prison population
Christians make up 78% of the population but 83.761% of the prison population.
This suggests that if you self-identify as a Christian, you are over 86 times more likely to be in prison than if you self-identify as an atheist/agnostic.
So what is it Christians? Why is it you are all a bunch of violent criminals? Does Jesus make you do it or is it because low IQ is associated with both high-religiosity and criminality?
18% if you include agnostics (the prison numbers had no agnostics so there are either 0 agnostics on prison or they're pooled with atheists).
So:
Atheists/agnostics make up 18% of the population but only 0.209% of the prison population
Christians make up 78% of the population but 83.761% of the prison population.
This suggests that if you self-identify as a Christian, you are over 86 times more likely to be in prison than if you self-identify as an atheist/agnostic.
So what is it Christians? Why is it you are all a bunch of violent criminals? Does Jesus make you do it or is it because low IQ is associated with both high-religiosity and criminality?
Man... I was close to thinking you'd keep your trolling less obvious, but you can't really help it.
Meh...
Oh I'll admit it was trolling, but the numbers are legitimate. In terms of criminality, atheists and non-religious are by far the most moral of any religious demographic.
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