Judge: Isohunt Must Remove Infringing Content

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StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Not surprising. I get the impression that very few lawsuits are actually against consumers for music and movies and isohunt has basically everything. Or so I've heard.

TBH most movies and music are not even worth the time spent downloading them for free, let alone paying for.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
I love how all the people around here who are against "Big Oil", "Big Tobacco", "Big Pharma"...etc are in such adoration of "Big Entertainment"

Objections to big oil are typically involving things like avoiding market prices and pollution.

Objections to bit tobacco are typically things like the fact of how harmful it is to people, with nearly all tobacco addicts hooked as impressionable teens, hiding its harms, etc.

Objections to Big Pharma aren't that they provide good medications, but things like price collusions, games to extend exclusive rights to medicines, avoiding safety tests, etc.

Opposing theft to protect the culture isn't being 'in love with big pharma'.

If I oppose someone stealing the formula for a new drug 'big pharma' legitimately paid to invent and has the excluse rights to, that doesn't mean supporting 'big pharma'.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Objections to big oil are typically involving things like avoiding market prices and pollution.

Objections to bit tobacco are typically things like the fact of how harmful it is to people, with nearly all tobacco addicts hooked as impressionable teens, hiding its harms, etc.

Objections to Big Pharma aren't that they provide good medications, but things like price collusions, games to extend exclusive rights to medicines, avoiding safety tests, etc.

Opposing theft to protect the culture isn't being 'in love with big pharma'.

If I oppose someone stealing the formula for a new drug 'big pharma' legitimately paid to invent and has the excluse rights to, that doesn't mean supporting 'big pharma'.
In the words of Temple of the Dog "I don't mind stealing bread from the mouths of decadence." You can argue many things but arguing that the spreading of art, despite it not being paid for, and its creation by people who would have almost certainly created it even without their money, is nothing at all like the weakening of culture in my mind.
 

MJinZ

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 2009
8,192
0
0
The thing is, you probably have a psychopath's narcissistic view of the consequences - the punishment to you.

You probably don't mean the real consequences - the harm to our culture by the defunding of the creation of works (books, films, music, art are all theoretically at risk).


For the sake of argument:


Books? Not at all.
Films? More than half of movie profits come from the box office.
Music? How much do you think iTunes makes for Apple?
Art? What art?
The real question is whether you accept the "Defunding" argument, and you see, many people do not.


If you 'know it's wrong', you could not do it.


Now, do I have *some* sympathy for the 'poor person can't afford, and it doesn't cost them anything' argument?


Yes, in this way, this is different than physical goods. Not everyone can drive a mercedes - each mercedes costs money - but a film being downloaded *by someone who would not have paid to see it because they can't afford it* can be done. But there are a couple issues with that, too.


First, it's difficult at best to limit the unpaid downloads to those people - any method to do this includes many who should pay for it, as piracy does.


How many people are smart enough and savvy enough to do this? If you are poor & smart, you arguably have much greater potential to contribute to society. Especially if you are able to enrich yourself with "art". Stupid & poor? Lazy & poor? You'll be subscribing to Netflix and Blockbuster. No need to "limit" anything. People have a natural limit to their time as well as their money.


Second, even those people can afford *something*, but there's not any practical way to collect the 'smaller payments'.


Yes, they can afford *something*. That would be movies at a theatre and live concerts. Perhaps you can give a "sampler" and create a fan for life.


Third, a poor person who might buy $10 a month of product might buy zero instead if he can download large amounts for free.


Everyone does a cost/benefit analysis for just about every action they take. If the time it takes to find and download movies is not worth it, they will naturally pay $10 a month.

We're better off looking for ways to help the poor access the works and the creators to get paid something, than legalize piracy. Think the public library.


What's the difference between "Isohunt.com" & the "Public Library"? "What's in a name? that which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet"
?

I've said for years that potentially, digital reproduction represents a threat to the creation of works never before seen in human history. We should all support protecting that culture.


You've said it, now you have to explain it and prove it. Evidence that piracy has an effect on the creation of music and film in the last decade has been basically none. Mp3s have arguably and will arguably save record companies millions in the long run in costs and revolutionized products like iPods and Smartphones that are in themselves, multi-million dollar industries. Sometimes, it takes revolution and a rebel to create positive change. A change to digital music is entirely to the consumer's benefit, but would have never happened/much slower if the record companies had it their way or the highway.


It might be full of crap as well - books by Sarah Palin, Jerry Springer and bad movies - but that's another issue.


That's a major issue that proponents will point to. Are 30 second previews of an album on iTunes enough? Why the hell can't we "return" digital products like movies and music if we use them, and they turn out be shit? IF you propose that piracy of digital music and film is absolutely akin to stealing, then you MUST give consumers the same protection, which we do NOT have.

Edit: I should also mention I think the extensions of copyright protection are wrong, exploiting profit for no valid reason.


As you say, you have cultural advancement's best interest in mind. However, look around you. How many people do you know have iPods and pay for $25 or $50 iTunes giftcards, or buy albums on iTunes? I'll tell you what I know, basically 90% of people around me. Do you have any evidence that creativity (or what passes for it these days) and art has been stunted at all by piracy? You underestimate the benefits of intellectual movements like BitTorrent and overestimate the plausible damage to artists.

The biggest problems are never mentioned or addressed, like:

1) Art for profit: When does it stop being true "art"?
2) Record labels vs artists, who truly deserves the majority of the proceeds?
3) Ownership of thoughts and ideas, should we revamp the way we perceive this?

^^
 
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jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
There can be only one.

TPB
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
There can be only one.

TPB

pirate bay is mostly useless now that we have things like xvideos.com and tube8.com :D

(there's a reason I didn't enable links. If you enter those URLs at work, you deserve to be fired)
 

TridenT

Lifer
Sep 4, 2006
16,800
45
91
Ugh this sucks! I don't use isohunt, but I was pisseedddd when mininova went down. I fucking loved mininova. :'(
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,613
11,255
136
Opposing theft to protect the culture isn't being 'in love with big pharma'.

How about when Big Entertainment has locked up the culture to where nobody can get it, like Disney loves doing? Copyright laws are bullshit long and they destroy culture. If the MPAA and RIAA disappear tomorrow that would be the greatest thing for American culture to happen in the last 50 years.

Not saying copyright laws should exist, but that should be more like a patent that the current eternal copyright. Hell if Disney gets it way, Dumbo will be copyrighted in the year 3000. How is this protecting the culture?
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
How about when Big Entertainment has locked up the culture to where nobody can get it, like Disney loves doing? Copyright laws are bullshit long and they destroy culture. If the MPAA and RIAA disappear tomorrow that would be the greatest thing for American culture to happen in the last 50 years.

Not saying copyright laws should exist, but that should be more like a patent that the current eternal copyright. Hell if Disney gets it way, Dumbo will be copyrighted in the year 3000. How is this protecting the culture?

I'll repeat what I already said, that the abusive extensions of protections are also wrong, but a separate issue. They don't justify piracy elsewhere. Gutting the revenue for a newly released movie has nothing to do with fighitng the man for keeping Dumbo copyrighted for decades.
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
I can't believe I've found something I agree with Craig on...


But it's like while everyone knows the primary purpose of their website is to aid illegal activity, but we also know they are not technically violating any laws...


Yeah, so I have no sympathy at all for those who feel they are freely entitled to what others spent a lot of money to create, just because of the impossibility of enforcing copyright laws.
 

Soltis

Member
Mar 2, 2010
114
0
0
Popularity is a double edged sword. You can't put your music video on TV and blast your song on a radio station and then turn around and get upset because someone recorded it to listen to it more than once. I could understand if people were turning around and selling the tape for profit, but that's usually not even the case. Anything that is introduced to a mass audience is going to get replayed and passed around, and to try to restrict that imo is just greedy and foolish. If you don't like the idea of people sharing your content, then don't try to sell it to a mass audience via TV, radio, or any medium you can't control. It's the same with people who cater to publicity from paparazzi but then start ranting about how their privacy is invaded.

I think internet piracy just shows how unbalanced today's entertainment is in regards to payment, and probably money spent producing as well. Albums and Movies are nice and all, but if literally no one is willing to pay to see them, or not enough for them to spend as much as they do, then maybe they should use less money or rethink what it is they're trying to sell entirely. I just know at the rate we're going they'll want people to start paying royalties just for having eyes and ears...

The internet won't kill creative content, it will just lower the amount of mediocre content existing solely for profit imo.

Also, I hope they don't forget about all that porn they need to get off the net considering that is "property" as well.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Craig continues to wave his flag of stupidity to remind everyone just how useless he is to the human race.
 

MJinZ

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 2009
8,192
0
0
Popularity is a double edged sword. You can't put your music video on TV and blast your song on a radio station and then turn around and get upset because someone recorded it to listen to it more than once. I could understand if people were turning around and selling the tape for profit, but that's usually not even the case. Anything that is introduced to a mass audience is going to get replayed and passed around, and to try to restrict that imo is just greedy and foolish. If you don't like the idea of people sharing your content, then don't try to sell it to a mass audience via TV, radio, or any medium you can't control. It's the same with people who cater to publicity from paparazzi but then start ranting about how their privacy is invaded.

I think internet piracy just shows how unbalanced today's entertainment is in regards to payment, and probably money spent producing as well. Albums and Movies are nice and all, but if literally no one is willing to pay to see them, or not enough for them to spend as much as they do, then maybe they should use less money or rethink what it is they're trying to sell entirely. I just know at the rate we're going they'll want people to start paying royalties just for having eyes and ears...

The internet won't kill creative content, it will just lower the amount of mediocre content existing solely for profit imo.

Also, I hope they don't forget about all that porn they need to get off the net considering that is "property" as well.

Xtube dot come
 

Cogman

Lifer
Sep 19, 2000
10,284
138
106
We need new laws written by people that understand the tech, not by judges that get their heart strings pulled by the crying MPAA.

Pirating is wrong, and with the way P2P is set up, pretty much unenforceable (after all, how do you try a HUGE mob of people?). They go after the people that host the torrent files, but the problem is, there is no copyrighted material in any torrent file.

What's worse, since the material is broken up into several pieces, and the title really doesn't mean anything, without downloading the file and visually checking it for copyrighted material, there is almost no way to prove that what was obtained was actually copyrighted.

And what do you do about incomplete or partial downloads? have they really broken the law? The fact is, their bits don't (usually) mean anything without the entire file.

Its a mess that makes me happy I'm not in congress. The MPAA and RIAA are idiots for thinking they can stop or enforce it, and the judges that go along with their "evidence" are equally retarded.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
We need new laws written by people that understand the tech, not by judges that get their heart strings pulled by the crying MPAA.

Pirating is wrong, and with the way P2P is set up, pretty much unenforceable (after all, how do you try a HUGE mob of people?). They go after the people that host the torrent files, but the problem is, there is no copyrighted material in any torrent file.

What's worse, since the material is broken up into several pieces, and the title really doesn't mean anything, without downloading the file and visually checking it for copyrighted material, there is almost no way to prove that what was obtained was actually copyrighted.

And what do you do about incomplete or partial downloads? have they really broken the law? The fact is, their bits don't (usually) mean anything without the entire file.

Its a mess that makes me happy I'm not in congress. The MPAA and RIAA are idiots for thinking they can stop or enforce it, and the judges that go along with their "evidence" are equally retarded.

Admittedly I don't really understand torrents, but how can there be no copyrighted material in them? There is copyrighted material from the host (or hosts), copyrighted material appears on the downloader's machine - how can there be no copyrighted material in the streams?
 

Mr. Pedantic

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2010
5,027
0
76
Admittedly I don't really understand torrents, but how can there be no copyrighted material in them? There is copyrighted material from the host (or hosts), copyrighted material appears on the downloader's machine - how can there be no copyrighted material in the streams?
The torrent file just provides information about the file(s) being downloaded and a list of trackers to get the torrent client started on looking for peers. No part of the downloaded file is actually stored in the torrent; it's stored on the internet in several (thousand) users' PCs.
 

MJinZ

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 2009
8,192
0
0
The torrent file just provides information about the file(s) being downloaded and a list of trackers to get the torrent client started on looking for peers. No part of the downloaded file is actually stored in the torrent; it's stored on the internet in several (thousand) users' PCs.

Yep, like a Yellowpages phone book of every business and their contact information. You need only look up the information you need and request the copyrighted information. The Yellowpages itself does not have any copyrighted information within its pages.

However, Torrents are more like Blackpages (if such a word existed) - one that only gave you drug dealers, extortionists, murderers information etc etc. Even if the information itself is not a crime, its existence is solely for the purpose of perpetuating a crime. Occasionally, these Blackpages will have the contact information for a Linux distro, but one drop of water does not make an ocean from the sands of a desert.

An arms dealer says he does not kill people, but he is actually the greatest instrument of destruction.

Of course, when you begin to the question legality of intellectual property to begin with, and what it means to be "legal" or "right", then you can perhaps see that Torrents are just a Public Library?
 

Abe Froman

Golden Member
Dec 14, 2004
1,057
4
81
People bitch about high gas prices, the idea is similar.

People bitch about high drug costs, and with health insurance, the idea is similar.

Now if songs cost 1 cent each, and movies cost $1 each, people wouldn't be bitching nearly as much.

Do you see the correlation?

What if we just moved the decimal point of your salary to the left, just one place... no big deal, right?

$1.00 -> $0.01
$10.00 -> $1.00
$35,000.00 -> $3,500 or two even... $35,000 -> $350.00
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
The torrent file just provides information about the file(s) being downloaded and a list of trackers to get the torrent client started on looking for peers. No part of the downloaded file is actually stored in the torrent; it's stored on the internet in several (thousand) users' PCs.

Ah - I did not know that, thanks.