Jr. Homebrew report 27 - Hard Cider -

[djheater]

A friend of mine recently brewed up a cider and regaled a few of us homebrewers with just how incredibly wrong he did everything, from sanitation through fermentation he made numerosu mistakes, and eventually took his tolerably fair results and cold distilled them into a nice apple jack.

It really put me in the brewing mood, especially because it seemingly didn't take the slightests effort on his part to produce a cider. I was intrigued.

As the father of three young children, working full time and in school with a wife in a nursing program, I don't have nearly enough time to indulge my brewing desires, so on the way home from work I decided to say screw it, and bew me up some cider. I stopped at the grocery store, picked up 5 gallons of preservative free (important so the yeast doesn't die) cider, and a 2lb bag of brown sugar, for kick.

Came home used my StarSan no rinse sanitizer on my 5 galon glass carboy and airlock, and while I was working at it, boiled the brown sugar with a couple of cups of water and a dash of cinnamon.
After wettine my hands and the bottle tops in the starsan, I poured the cider directly into the carboy and then added the freezer cooled sugar syrup... after a few good shagkes I addes some dry Safale English ale yeast that I had lying around, threw it in the closet and forgot about it for two months. No O.G.

Took me an hour cumulative, I'd say... I eventually took a reading and it was under 1.00 on the hydrometer, went ahead and added 4 oz corn sugar stirredinto the carboy with a long handled spoon and then bottled.

A little over a week later I'm sitting here trying a few bottles and it's quite good.

It's a tad dry so a bit like a sparkling apple wine. VERY appley with just the barest hint of sulphur that promises to dissipate with age.

It's quite warm alcohol-wise and seems to be about a 9% I'd say.. though no OG so, who knows.

All in all, I'm terribly enamored of the ease of cider making.

Yum.

 

[Bryophyte]

I'll have to try that. My brewing and winemaking supplies have sat unused for far too long. Five gallons of that would go well at the party I have at the end of June each year. :beer: Do you think beer yeast works better than wine yeast for cider?

 

[djheater]

I think the optimal yeast would be one with a low alcohol tolerance to preserve some residual sweetness.
What I have, is very appley but a touch dry.

 

[djheater]

Hangover update - After 4 bottles I was pretty toasty, and hit the sack. No hint of a hangover this morning.

Me likey cider

 

[HomeBrewerDude]

Hi djheater.

Sounds like a nice little brew. Cider is fun to make... You got me thinking that come apple season I'll have to do a batch.

I'd guess that your OG was about 1.065. Just the apple juice alone would have had about 1.05 (unless it had sugars added for sweetner). I believe 2 pounds of sugar equates to about .015 jump in gravity for a 5 gallon batch. so yeah you've got something around 8% (estimating in my head so I might be off).

My experience with the dryness is similar to yours. Getting a carbonated sweet apple juice is a little harder to do especially if your bottling. keggers can kill off the yeast, and then add sweetner and then force carbonate. (or just add sugar and force carbonate and keep really cold to suppress yeast activity). Not sure how you would do it with bottles other than adding in lots of sugar then bottling, allowing to set at ferment temps for 1 day and then chilling to suppress yeast. I'd be scared of exploding geysers and bottles tho!

Cheers,
HBD

 

[sjwaste]

Did you just throw it in with an airlock immediately, or did you let it ferment uncovered, then airlock it a few days later?

I used to make this stuff directly in the jug that the cider came in. Just let it come to room temp, poured out some cider to make the brown sugar syrup, poured that back in with some activated yeast. In fact, I think I used to make the airlock by shoving some aquarium tube through the plastic snapcap that came on the jug, and put the other end in water. Bread yeast too.

The results.. varied. Let's just say no batch ever tasted like the other, and no matter how good they tasted (or bad), the aftertaste was always that of plain pizza.

Also, did you ever kill the yeast at the end, or did you leave it go w/ the corn sugar for some bottle fermentation/carbonation? I'm just wondering where the sulfur taste came from.

 

[djheater]

That cider is long gone.. I gave a lot away and drank the rest to fast... Should have let it mellow... (yeah right)

Since I brewed that I've been through another cider which was not very good and have one agining in a keg.

I discovered that the generic apple juice from the grocery produces the best residual apple taste. For the most recent batch I lightly toasted 1oz of American oak and let it stepp for a week in primary.

Primary was 8 weeks, Secondary was 10 and now it's aging in a keg... I plan to tap it in September. I've sampled it and am very pleased with this batch.

As an aside, I brewed an Old Ale kit from Norhtern:

Specialty Grains
0.5 lbs. Simpsons Dark Crystal
0.5 lbs. Golden Naked Oats

Fermentables
2 lb. Golden Light DME (boil for 60 min.)
6 lbs. Gold Malt Syrup (boil for 15 min.)
1 lbs. Dark Candi Sugar (end of boil)

Boil Additions
1 oz. Argentina Cascade (60 min)

And then Fermented that on top of approx one gallon of my cider and the leavings in secondary.

I've tasted it recently and it's very interesting... not bad at all needs time to blend. "Apple Oaked Old Ale" A criticism would be that it needs MORE oak next time.. the limited oak doesn't make it thorugh well and the cider leaves it tasting a bit thin.

 

[djheater]

Originally posted by: sjwaste
Did you just throw it in with an airlock immediately, or did you let it ferment uncovered, then airlock it a few days later?

I used to make this stuff directly in the jug that the cider came in. Just let it come to room temp, poured out some cider to make the brown sugar syrup, poured that back in with some activated yeast. In fact, I think I used to make the airlock by shoving some aquarium tube through the plastic snapcap that came on the jug, and put the other end in water. Bread yeast too.

The results.. varied. Let's just say no batch ever tasted like the other, and no matter how good they tasted (or bad), the aftertaste was always that of plain pizza.

Also, did you ever kill the yeast at the end, or did you leave it go w/ the corn sugar for some bottle fermentation/carbonation? I'm just wondering where the sulfur taste came from.

I don't remember the sulphur taste being present at the end of the batch. I would guess it was stuff the yeast needed time to clean up... There's been far to many bottles between then and now for me to remember

 

[sjwaste]

I just realized how old this thread is

I've had a couple of failed fermentations, thinking maybe I put the airlock on too early. How long do you usually let it sit with just a cloth over the opening before airlocking it?

 

[djheater]

Originally posted by: sjwaste
I just realized how old this thread is

I've had a couple of failed fermentations, thinking maybe I put the airlock on too early. How long do you usually let it sit with just a cloth over the opening before airlocking it?

Put the airlock on immediately.

If your fermentation is failing it's likely your yeast is dead or inviable. Shaking the crap out of it may help. It mixes the yeast back in and adds a little bit of air which is necessary for them to begin.

I've started aerating before fermenting... aquarium pump, inline hepa filter, .5 micron stainless steel stone.

Using a good fresh yeast, or 'proofing' your yeast might help....

 

[imported_Section8]

Last saturday I brewed up 6 gal of Honey Wheat

4 lbs Hopped wheat malt syrup
2 lbs plain amber spray malt
1 lb honey
.25 oz chech saaz hopps (balance out the honey)
1 pkg standard ale yeast

The OG was 1.056 @ 75 F
In the past my FG was 1.008

so 1.056 - 1.008 = .048 x 1.05 = .0504 / 1.008 = .05 / .79 = 6.3 percent alcohol

(% Alcohol = ((1.05 x (OG ? FG)) / FG) / 0.79)

Its great on a hot afternoon with a slice of lemon.

Cheers

 

[Lonyo]

Wait, you made cider from cider instead of apples?

 

[HomeBrewerDude]

Originally posted by: sjwaste
I just realized how old this thread is

I've had a couple of failed fermentations, thinking maybe I put the airlock on too early. How long do you usually let it sit with just a cloth over the opening before airlocking it?

Failed fermentation with apple juice/cider is almost assuredly do to dead yeast, possibly b/c the apple juice itself had preservatives that killed off the yeast you pitched. Other causes might be heat, alcohol (some yeast are less tolerant of their own byproducts than others), and lack of nutrients. Sulfur smell is generally associated with stressed out yeast....and apple juice doesn't really have all the stuff yeast need to reproduce. Usually the sulfur smell will disapate with time, but if you want to avoid altogether then try adding some yeast nutrients.

Also, go get some brewer's yeast instead of bread yeast. Its a whole different ballgame, and will help you get more consistent results. A pack of dry champagne yeast would be a good candidate. pretty cheap stuff:
http://www.ejwren.com/servlet/...pagne-Dry-Yeast/Detail

Yeast is one of the major determinants of flavor.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Buy a gallon of cider, take the lid off and leave it unattended for a week or two.

If it is to hard then, mix it with another batch to get proper drinking consistency.

 

[Tifababy]

Originally posted by: Section8
Last saturday I brewed up 6 gal of Honey Wheat

4 lbs Hopped wheat malt syrup
2 lbs plain amber spray malt
1 lb honey
.25 oz chech saaz hopps (balance out the honey)
1 pkg standard ale yeast

The OG was 1.056 @ 75 F
In the past my FG was 1.008

so 1.056 - 1.008 = .048 x 1.05 = .0504 / 1.008 = .05 / .79 = 6.3 percent alcohol

(% Alcohol = ((1.05 x (OG ? FG)) / FG) / 0.79)

Its great on a hot afternoon with a slice of lemon.

Cheers

It's a lot easier to use (OG-FG)*131, gives 6.288% for our beer.

 

[HomeBrewerDude]

Originally posted by: Tifababy

Originally posted by: Section8
Last saturday I brewed up 6 gal of Honey Wheat

4 lbs Hopped wheat malt syrup
2 lbs plain amber spray malt
1 lb honey
.25 oz chech saaz hopps (balance out the honey)
1 pkg standard ale yeast

The OG was 1.056 @ 75 F
In the past my FG was 1.008

so 1.056 - 1.008 = .048 x 1.05 = .0504 / 1.008 = .05 / .79 = 6.3 percent alcohol

(% Alcohol = ((1.05 x (OG ? FG)) / FG) / 0.79)

Its great on a hot afternoon with a slice of lemon.

Cheers

It's a lot easier to use (OG-FG)*131, gives 6.288% for our beer.

the easiest method is to take the OG and move the decimal over spots... you might be off 1/2 % but its good for a ball park and works for OGs up to 1.09 or so.

 

[sjwaste]

Originally posted by: HomeBrewerDude

Originally posted by: sjwaste
I just realized how old this thread is

I've had a couple of failed fermentations, thinking maybe I put the airlock on too early. How long do you usually let it sit with just a cloth over the opening before airlocking it?

Failed fermentation with apple juice/cider is almost assuredly do to dead yeast, possibly b/c the apple juice itself had preservatives that killed off the yeast you pitched. Other causes might be heat, alcohol (some yeast are less tolerant of their own byproducts than others), and lack of nutrients. Sulfur smell is generally associated with stressed out yeast....and apple juice doesn't really have all the stuff yeast need to reproduce. Usually the sulfur smell will disapate with time, but if you want to avoid altogether then try adding some yeast nutrients.

Also, go get some brewer's yeast instead of bread yeast. Its a whole different ballgame, and will help you get more consistent results. A pack of dry champagne yeast would be a good candidate. pretty cheap stuff:
http://www.ejwren.com/servlet/...pagne-Dry-Yeast/Detail

Yeast is one of the major determinants of flavor.

Thanks for the advice, I'll certainly give it another go.

For hard cider, what's the optimal fermentation temp? In the past I was keeping it around 75F. Too hot?

 

[HomeBrewerDude]

Originally posted by: sjwaste

Originally posted by: HomeBrewerDude

Originally posted by: sjwaste
I just realized how old this thread is

I've had a couple of failed fermentations, thinking maybe I put the airlock on too early. How long do you usually let it sit with just a cloth over the opening before airlocking it?

Failed fermentation with apple juice/cider is almost assuredly do to dead yeast, possibly b/c the apple juice itself had preservatives that killed off the yeast you pitched. Other causes might be heat, alcohol (some yeast are less tolerant of their own byproducts than others), and lack of nutrients. Sulfur smell is generally associated with stressed out yeast....and apple juice doesn't really have all the stuff yeast need to reproduce. Usually the sulfur smell will disapate with time, but if you want to avoid altogether then try adding some yeast nutrients.

Also, go get some brewer's yeast instead of bread yeast. Its a whole different ballgame, and will help you get more consistent results. A pack of dry champagne yeast would be a good candidate. pretty cheap stuff:
http://www.ejwren.com/servlet/...pagne-Dry-Yeast/Detail

Yeast is one of the major determinants of flavor.

Thanks for the advice, I'll certainly give it another go.

For hard cider, what's the optimal fermentation temp? In the past I was keeping it around 75F. Too hot?

yeah 75 is too warm. yeast will produce a lot of by products at higher temps that can create funny flavors.

Ideally, you'll generally want 65-70, though check the documentation of the yeast strain that you're using and follow that. 65F is probably safe for any yeast that you would use in cider.

If youre having a hard time keeping the cider cool (because you live in a warm climate and your AC doesn't go lower than 75, you can sit your fermentation vessel in a large pan of tap water and drape a t-shirt over the fermentation vessel so that wicks water up and provides 1-2 degrees of cooling through evaporation.

 

[ShotgunSteven]

When I was at Kramerbooks & Afterwords in D.C., they had a Woodchuck Pear Cider that I tried. That stuff was amazing.

 

[Tifababy]

Originally posted by: HomeBrewerDude

Originally posted by: Tifababy

Originally posted by: Section8
Last saturday I brewed up 6 gal of Honey Wheat

4 lbs Hopped wheat malt syrup
2 lbs plain amber spray malt
1 lb honey
.25 oz chech saaz hopps (balance out the honey)
1 pkg standard ale yeast

The OG was 1.056 @ 75 F
In the past my FG was 1.008

so 1.056 - 1.008 = .048 x 1.05 = .0504 / 1.008 = .05 / .79 = 6.3 percent alcohol

(% Alcohol = ((1.05 x (OG ? FG)) / FG) / 0.79)

Its great on a hot afternoon with a slice of lemon.

Cheers

It's a lot easier to use (OG-FG)*131, gives 6.288% for our beer.

the easiest method is to take the OG and move the decimal over spots... you might be off 1/2 % but its good for a ball park and works for OGs up to 1.09 or so.

That will get you pretty close assuming your FG is somewhere around 1.010, but if your OG is 1.050 and your FG is 1.000 (very likely for a cider), your ABV will be 6.5%, and not 5%. And if you have a stout or other malty beer which has a FG somewhere closer to 1.020, then your ABV will be 3.9%.

 

[HomeBrewerDude]

Originally posted by: Tifababy

Originally posted by: HomeBrewerDude

Originally posted by: Tifababy

Originally posted by: Section8
Last saturday I brewed up 6 gal of Honey Wheat

4 lbs Hopped wheat malt syrup
2 lbs plain amber spray malt
1 lb honey
.25 oz chech saaz hopps (balance out the honey)
1 pkg standard ale yeast

The OG was 1.056 @ 75 F
In the past my FG was 1.008

so 1.056 - 1.008 = .048 x 1.05 = .0504 / 1.008 = .05 / .79 = 6.3 percent alcohol

(% Alcohol = ((1.05 x (OG ? FG)) / FG) / 0.79)

Its great on a hot afternoon with a slice of lemon.

Cheers

It's a lot easier to use (OG-FG)*131, gives 6.288% for our beer.

the easiest method is to take the OG and move the decimal over spots... you might be off 1/2 % but its good for a ball park and works for OGs up to 1.09 or so.

That will get you pretty close assuming your FG is somewhere around 1.010, but if your OG is 1.050 and your FG is 1.000 (very likely for a cider), your ABV will be 6.5%, and not 5%. And if you have a stout or other malty beer which has a FG somewhere closer to 1.020, then your ABV will be 3.9%.

yeah, its not so good for cider but for most beers its a easy approximation. note that generally you don't see 1.020 FGs until you start getting big OGs... for the average brew, its ok though. I remember reading about it in a Brew Your Own magazine... IRC Chris Colby (?) I htink put it his Mr Wizard column..

 

[sjwaste]

Originally posted by: HomeBrewerDude
yeah 75 is too warm. yeast will produce a lot of by products at higher temps that can create funny flavors.

Ideally, you'll generally want 65-70, though check the documentation of the yeast strain that you're using and follow that. 65F is probably safe for any yeast that you would use in cider.

If youre having a hard time keeping the cider cool (because you live in a warm climate and your AC doesn't go lower than 75, you can sit your fermentation vessel in a large pan of tap water and drape a t-shirt over the fermentation vessel so that wicks water up and provides 1-2 degrees of cooling through evaporation.

Good to know. I'm moving soon, out of my apt and into a house, so the basement might be a perfect place for this, temp-wise. I'll check out some wine yeasts. Do you think a champagne yeast might be a good way to go if I'm looking to make a higher gravity, carbonated cider? Do you have an internet supplier of choice? I've ordered supplies from EC Kraus in the past.

Last time, I used a full pound of brown sugar per gallon. I'm reading that might be way too much for the yeast. I'll try a pound for 5 gallons this time.

Thanks for the help!

 

[Renob]

I don't have nearly enough time to indulge my brewing desires

Ok let?s see here.
14,124 posts in 7 years.

I will break it down:
2017 posts a year.
Let?s say two min a post that covers reading the thread, thinking of a reply and posting your reply.
That?s 4034 min, or 67 hours

The 2 min is a very low estimate, I would bet the more accurate time would be 5 min pre post that would bump you up to 10,085 or 168 hours

This turns into 21 eight hour days a year you could be brewing.

Ok I?m just messing with ya on the "I don?t have time" statement, GRATS on the cider, I just might have to look into making some.

 

[HomeBrewerDude]

Originally posted by: sjwaste

Originally posted by: HomeBrewerDude
yeah 75 is too warm. yeast will produce a lot of by products at higher temps that can create funny flavors.

Ideally, you'll generally want 65-70, though check the documentation of the yeast strain that you're using and follow that. 65F is probably safe for any yeast that you would use in cider.

If youre having a hard time keeping the cider cool (because you live in a warm climate and your AC doesn't go lower than 75, you can sit your fermentation vessel in a large pan of tap water and drape a t-shirt over the fermentation vessel so that wicks water up and provides 1-2 degrees of cooling through evaporation.

Good to know. I'm moving soon, out of my apt and into a house, so the basement might be a perfect place for this, temp-wise. I'll check out some wine yeasts. Do you think a champagne yeast might be a good way to go if I'm looking to make a higher gravity, carbonated cider? Do you have an internet supplier of choice? I've ordered supplies from EC Kraus in the past.

Last time, I used a full pound of brown sugar per gallon. I'm reading that might be way too much for the yeast. I'll try a pound for 5 gallons this time.

Thanks for the help!

wow I bet that was some potent stuff!

So here is a run down:
If you just use apple juice or cider then your OG will be about 1.05 and your final alcohol by volume will be about 6.0%. Also you'll have a dry cider with virtually no residual sweetness.

For every pound of sugar per gallon you're going to increase the OG about .045; this equates to about another 4.5 % alcohol (Assuming all of the sugars will be converted to alcohol).

So assuming you brewed a 1 gallon batch and added 1 pound of cane sugar (or a 5 gallon batch with 5 pounds of sugar), you would end up with a cider pushing 11-12% abv. At this level of alcohol, the taste of the cider will certainly be 'warm' and overpowered by the alcohol. Yes it will get you drunk quickly, but it will probably not that enjoyable to drink. There may be slight sweetness to the beverage.



Notes on brewing this cider:

1) You'll also want to transfer the cider at least once from the original container to a new container to remove the trub that will collect at the bottom of the vessel. That trub is basically dead yeast cell, plus pectins and other particulates that might have been in the original cider. That dead yeast won't hurt you, but it might lead to some off flavors after about 3 weeks or so. Most people would transfer off the trub after the initial fermentation has occured, which is probably only about 1 week for a cider.

2) However, at about 12% alcohol, most yeast strains will be starting to get woozy and dying off from all the booze. A champagne yeast will be more alcohol tolerant than say those used for beer. Also, you'll have a better flavor profile from a champagne yeast than from some other sort of yeast (e.g., Ale yeast)

3) Making a sweet, carbonated cider is technically challenging.** This is why most homebrewers will simply brew still sweet cider or sparkling dry cider. The problem is that the yeast that will give you carbonation will also eat up all the sugar available. If you bottle too soon, you may get exploding bottles (i've had this happen before and its a pain in the ass). At the very least you'll get a cider that is so carbonated that it gushes out of the bottle upon opening. Another pain in the ass. You MIGHT be able to add some additional sugar prior to bottling, and then refrigerate after 1 day to supress yeast activity. You'll have to hope that you got some CO2, but that you also still have some sugars. I suppose you could rewarm for short intervals until you get the desired level of co2.

** if you keg then its much easier... simply kill off yeast, add sugar and force carbonate.

There is a great book by Annie Proulx about brewing cider... its:
http://www.amazon.com/Making-A...e-Proulx/dp/0882662228

Any online or local brew shop will get you good yeast and any other supplies you need. Local is nice b/c then you'll be able to ask questions and get feedback on your product.