JOHN STOSSEL: Did Freedom Win?

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,348
19,518
146
I've always liked Stossel, and he makes all the right points in this article.

Just as I've been pointing out that the Democrats are far from liberal anymore, he makes the point that the Republicans are far from fiscally conservative and have completely abandoned "small government" ideology.

So what's next???

JOHN STOSSEL: Did Freedom Win?

By John Stossel

Published November 04, 2010
| FoxNews.com
The polls have closed. The Tea Party took some important races, and Republicans re-took control of the House. Many winning candidates campaigned on a promise to cut back on government. Some vowed to restore government to its constitutional limits.

As a libertarian, I so want to believe that the Tea Party marks the beginning a comeback for small government.

But I’m probably deluding myself. I know that big government usually wins. Remember the last time the Republicans took power? They promised fiscal responsibility, and for six of George W. Bush’s eight years, his party controlled Congress. What did we have to show for it?

Federal spending increased by 54 percent. That’s more than any president in the last 50 years. Much more than the 12 percent increase under Bill Clinton, and it even beat the 36 percent increase under big spender Lyndon Johnson. The number of subsidy programs grew 30 percent, and the regulatory budget grew 70 percent. The private sector shrank, while the government sector grew by 1.6 million jobs.

Bush and the GOP-controlled Congress created a prescription drug entitlement, the biggest entitlement expansion since Medicare. At one point, he nearly tripled the Department of Education budget.

Republicans want another chance, but any sensible person would be skeptical. We saw what happened when Republicans got a taste of power, and it wasn’t pretty. Why should we believe it wouldn’t happen again? Rep. John Kline, R-Minn., likely the next chair of the House Education Committee, has already said that he’s not going to abolish the Department of Education.

Republicans anticipated skepticism and tried to address it with the Pledge for America, an echo of the 1994 Contract With America. But the Pledge is modest. It promises no cuts in Medicare, Social Security or the military. That’s where most of the money is. Those programs account for 60 percent of the budget.

Their reluctance to call for entitlement cuts is politically understandable: Older people vote and don’t like the prospect of Medicare cuts. But taking Medicare off the budget-cutting agenda forsakes one’s credibility as a fiscal hawk. Medicare faces $36 trillion in unfunded promises.

Social Security adds $4.3 trillion more. As Shikha Dalmia writes in Forbes, “By 2052, Uncle Sam’s three entitlement programs -- Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid -- will consume all federal tax revenues, leaving nothing for government’s core, constitutional functions.”

OK, congressmen and would-be congressmen are just politicians. But the Tea Party is supposed to be different. It stands for fiscal responsibility, spending cuts and deficit reduction. A New York Times poll found that 92 percent of tea partiers said they would rather have a “smaller government providing fewer services” than a “bigger government providing more services.”

That’s encouraging. But when it comes to specifics, the results aren’t as good. The poll found that 62 percent thought “the benefits from government programs such as Social Security and Medicare are worth the costs.” A Bloomberg poll found that most tea partiers “want more drug benefits for Medicare patients.” And when was the last time you heard tea partiers complaining about the exploding military budget?

Strangely, in other questions, tea partiers did seem willing to accept cuts in domestic entitlement programs if it meant smaller government. The contradictory answers don’t bode well for the time when lobbyists for well-organized special interests mount their passionate attacks against cuts.

You just cannot be committed to cutting government if you would leave two of the costliest programs intact.

By now we know that Republicans have retaken the House. Divided government historically spends less than governments under one-party control. But if the people who most loudly demand smaller government can’t deliver a clear message on the biggest sources of government spending, the fiscal future of the country is in trouble.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Good article, and it shows why the Tea Party folks are under attack from both the Democrats (the party of big government) and the Republicans (the other party of big government.)
 

matt0611

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2010
1,879
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0
Stossel is pretty accurate I think. This is why you never put these entitlement programs in the system in the first place. You build up this culture of dependency, and its almost impossible to combat it.
 
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spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Stossel is pretty accurate I think. This is why you never put these entitlement programs in the system in the first place. You build up this culture of dependency, and its almost impossible to combat it.

Yep. See Greece, France, Spain. When the people receiving money from the government outnumber those that put money in, you're totally screwed. Game over.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,655
688
126
Right now we spend 200 Billion a year on interest on the national debt

http://www.usdebtclock.org/


In 5 years, at current pace, it is projected that we will spend 500 billion a year on interest on the national debt

http://www.usdebtclock.org/2015.html


Cuts to SS, the militarty, and medicare are NEEDED, or this country is going to be insolvent.

It all goes back to term limits IMO. Right now, someone in Congress has no incentive to really make tough decisions. They're more concerned with keeping their job than anything else and therefore, they're going to concentrate on softball issues or half-ass things on the important issues.

Maybe if these guys knew they weren't going to be re-elected, they would be more willing to do what needs to be done. And that is:

1. Drastic cuts in military spending.
2. Bring home the troops from Iraq and Afghanistan ASAP. Cruise missile attacks on terrorist bases are more financially responsible.
3. Cut all foreign aid.
4. Raise the retirement age and possibly cut benefit levels for both SS and Medicare. I'd love to see SS phased out altogether, but if that happens, it needs to be a phased approach.
5. Phase out Bush tax cuts.
6. Close loopholes in tax code.
7. Re-examine how capital gains are taxed.
8. Legalize certain drugs (esp. marijuana) and tax the crap out of it.
9. Penalize companies that outsource American jobs.
10. Re-examine the "free trade" agreements we have.
11. If you're on welfare, you must work for it. Period.
12. Serious campaign finance reform is needed.
 
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Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,839
2,625
136
Interesting that eternal war doesn't even get touched on in that op-ed. Maybe the TRILLION dollars we've spent on Iraq and Afganistan was insignificant because it doesn't fit in with the cut the social services theme? Or maybe because it was off budget until Obama took over, so it wasn't really spent?
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Interesting that eternal war doesn't even get touched on in that op-ed. Maybe the TRILLION dollars we've spent on Iraq and Afganistan was insignificant because it doesn't fit in with the cut the social services theme? Or maybe because it was off budget until Obama took over, so it wasn't really spent?

Republicans anticipated skepticism and tried to address it with the Pledge for America, an echo of the 1994 Contract With America. But the Pledge is modest. It promises no cuts in Medicare, Social Security or the military. That’s where most of the money is. Those programs account for 60 percent of the budget.

:confused:
 

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
7,756
11
81
It all goes back to term limits IMO. Right now, someone in Congress has no incentive to really make tough decisions.

No, not term limits - a balanced budget amendment. You need to limit the ability of Congress to borrow money. Maybe require a 2/3 majority to authorize expenditures in excess of revenue - something like that. Having term limits still won't force politicians to make tough choices. No one wants to be unpopular.
 

nobodyknows

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2008
5,474
0
0
Interesting that eternal war doesn't even get touched on in that op-ed. Maybe the TRILLION dollars we've spent on Iraq and Afganistan was insignificant because it doesn't fit in with the cut the social services theme? Or maybe because it was off budget until Obama took over, so it wasn't really spent?

It's by John Stossel. He wouldn't let any inconvient facts cloud his "crystal clear" judgemnt. ;)
 

matt0611

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2010
1,879
0
0
No, not term limits - a balanced budget amendment. You need to limit the ability of Congress to borrow money. Maybe require a 2/3 majority to authorize expenditures in excess of revenue - something like that. Having term limits still won't force politicians to make tough choices. No one wants to be unpopular.

I think you vastly underestimate politicians desire to spend money. :)
 

nyker96

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2005
5,630
2
81
1. Drastic cuts in military spending.
2. Bring home the troops from Iraq and Afghanistan ASAP. Cruise missile attacks on terrorist bases are more financially responsible.
3. Cut all foreign aid.
4. Raise the retirement age and possibly cut benefit levels for both SS and Medicare. I'd love to see SS phased out altogether, but if that happens, it needs to be a phased approach.
5. Phase out Bush tax cuts.
6. Close loopholes in tax code.
7. Re-examine how capital gains are taxed.
8. Legalize certain drugs (esp. marijuana) and tax the crap out of it.
9. Penalize companies that outsource American jobs.
10. Re-examine the "free trade" agreements we have.
11. If you're on welfare, you must work for it. Period.
12. Serious campaign finance reform is needed.

I have to say I agree with some of this reader's suggestion here on the methods to rain in spending and deficits. Like the original poster said, if we shave off 20% from SS, Military and something huge like Bush Tax cuts + raise Medicare age, we'd be in good shape for a while. Rest of the small potato is optional.
 

matt0611

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2010
1,879
0
0
I have to say I agree with some of this reader's suggestion here on the methods to rain in spending and deficits. Like the original poster said, if we shave off 20% from SS, Military and something huge like Bush Tax cuts + raise Medicare age, we'd be in good shape for a while. Rest of the small potato is optional.

Yup, cuts need to be made everywhere, across the board. Its the only way a balanced budget can be reached.
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
6
81
It all goes back to term limits IMO. Right now, someone in Congress has no incentive to really make tough decisions. They're more concerned with keeping their job than anything else and therefore, they're going to concentrate on softball issues or half-ass things on the important issues.

Maybe if these guys knew they weren't going to be re-elected, they would be more willing to do what needs to be done. And that is:

1. Drastic cuts in military spending.
2. Bring home the troops from Iraq and Afghanistan ASAP. Cruise missile attacks on terrorist bases are more financially responsible.
3. Cut all foreign aid.
4. Raise the retirement age and possibly cut benefit levels for both SS and Medicare. I'd love to see SS phased out altogether, but if that happens, it needs to be a phased approach.
5. Phase out Bush tax cuts.
6. Close loopholes in tax code.
7. Re-examine how capital gains are taxed.
8. Legalize certain drugs (esp. marijuana) and tax the crap out of it.
9. Penalize companies that outsource American jobs.
10. Re-examine the "free trade" agreements we have.
11. If you're on welfare, you must work for it. Period.
12. Serious campaign finance reform is needed.

I agree with almost every one of your points on your list
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,801
10
0
It all goes back to term limits IMO. Right now, someone in Congress has no incentive to really make tough decisions. They're more concerned with keeping their job than anything else and therefore, they're going to concentrate on softball issues or half-ass things on the important issues.

Maybe if these guys knew they weren't going to be re-elected, they would be more willing to do what needs to be done. And that is:

1. Drastic cuts in military spending.
2. Bring home the troops from Iraq and Afghanistan ASAP. Cruise missile attacks on terrorist bases are more financially responsible.
3. Cut all foreign aid.
4. Raise the retirement age and possibly cut benefit levels for both SS and Medicare. I'd love to see SS phased out altogether, but if that happens, it needs to be a phased approach.
5. Phase out Bush tax cuts.
6. Close loopholes in tax code.
7. Re-examine how capital gains are taxed.
8. Legalize certain drugs (esp. marijuana) and tax the crap out of it.
9. Penalize companies that outsource American jobs.
10. Re-examine the "free trade" agreements we have.
11. If you're on welfare, you must work for it. Period.
12. Serious campaign finance reform is needed.

:thumbsup:
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Wow, current and previous guys sucked, who knew; besides those that voted them out I mean.
 

manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
13,559
8
0
I thought the mandate from this election was jobs?



To infer anything else is frankly opportunism...
 

Scotteq

Diamond Member
Apr 10, 2008
5,276
5
0
Did Freedom win?


Hate to break it to you, but Freedom wasn't running.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
0
Rhetoric is the only thing that won. Rhetoric always wins. Desired action always loses.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126

Scotteq

Diamond Member
Apr 10, 2008
5,276
5
0
Not to worry, according to Cheney, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter.

...so we should thank the Government which has done so much in the last couple years to cut deficits, then? :rolleyes: Sorry: These guys make the last ones look positively miserly.


Here's a hint for you and all the other little Partisan hacks hanging out here: *NONE* of these politicians are doing anyone any favors, except for themselves and for the people who paid the money to put them in office.

This country was bought and paid for a LONG time ago.
 
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sMiLeYz

Platinum Member
Feb 3, 2003
2,696
0
76
1. Drastic cuts in military spending.
2. Bring home the troops from Iraq and Afghanistan ASAP. Cruise missile attacks on terrorist bases are more financially responsible.
3. Cut all foreign aid.
4. Raise the retirement age and possibly cut benefit levels for both SS and Medicare. I'd love to see SS phased out altogether, but if that happens, it needs to be a phased approach.
5. Phase out Bush tax cuts.
6. Close loopholes in tax code.
7. Re-examine how capital gains are taxed.
8. Legalize certain drugs (esp. marijuana) and tax the crap out of it.
9. Penalize companies that outsource American jobs.
10. Re-examine the "free trade" agreements we have.
11. If you're on welfare, you must work for it. Period.
12. Serious campaign finance reform is needed.

WTF.

I agree with almost every single one of those things except SS.

Social Security is completely self sustaining, is projected to take in way more than it takes until at least 2034, has trillions in surplus, and is barred by law from borrowing from the budget.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,655
688
126
WTF.

I agree with almost every single one of those things except SS.

Social Security is completely self sustaining, is projected to take in way more than it takes until at least 2034, has trillions in surplus, and is barred by law from borrowing from the budget.

LOL! For a minute there, I thought you were serious!