John McCain can't quit big business

[Dari]

Seems like no matter what the economy is, it's always a good idea to help out businesses. But if we keep cutting corporate taxes and poor people aren't paying taxes, that means the middle class will get royally screwed. With people living longer, it's time to start focusing on healthcare and not on giving tax breaks to the ultra wealthy. We all know they won't spend it all in America.

link

The Statement:
Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama, speaking in Canton, Ohio, on October 27, referred to Republican presidential candidate Sen. John McCain's tax plans and said, "It's not change when he wants to give $200 billion to the biggest corporations or $4 billion to the oil companies."

Get the facts!


The Facts:
Obama spokesman Ben LaBolt said the numbers cited by Obama come from two studies analyzing McCain's tax proposals, including cuts in the corporate tax rate. The two studies were done by unrelated organizations. LaBolt also said that Obama's remarks do not refer to two separate tax cuts ? the $4 billion in purported cuts to oil companies is part of the larger $200 billion.

Both studies project the effects of McCain's proposal to cut the corporate tax rate from the current maximum of 35 percent to a maximum of 25 percent in a phased reduction over the next seven years.

One analysis, published in March by the liberal Center for American Progress Action Fund, predicted how large oil companies would fare under McCain's proposed corporate tax reductions. Based on taxes that the five largest American oil companies paid in 2007 and calculating what the study called "savings under McCain plan," the study concludes that those five companies would realize a total tax cut of $3.8 billion a year under McCain's plan to cut the corporate rate.

On its Web site, the organization refers to the tax reduction as "nearly $4 billion." LaBolt said the Obama campaign uses the $4 billion figure because the study included only the five largest American oil companies, and the total tax cut to all American oil companies would be bigger. Also, 2008 earnings for oil companies are expected to be higher than earnings in 2007.

The other study ? a detailed analysis of both McCain's and Obama's tax plans ? was done by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center. That study predicted the impact of McCain's tax proposals on revenue in several categories. The Obama campaign arrived at its $200 billion figure by combining various categories in that study. Roberton Williams, principal research associate for the Tax Policy Center, said the Obama campaign's calculation of $200 billion from McCain's proposed reduction in corporate taxes was an accurate conclusion.

The McCain campaign contends that lowering the corporate tax rate will enhance business development and create jobs in the United States. In an interview on CNN's "The Situation Room" on Oct. 22, McCain cited lower tax rates in other countries as being a key reason American companies move business overseas. "We should be cutting corporate tax for every business in America," he said. "To somehow allege that a company or corporation that can be international is not going to go where they pay the lowest taxes and create the most jobs is just foolishness."

The Verdict: True. Obama's statement accurately reflects two studies of McCain's tax proposals.

 

[Capt Caveman]

In this economy, if we tax corporations more, won't there be fewer middle class jobs?

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
In this economy, if we tax corporations more, won't there be fewer middle class jobs?

Look at the history and public records. Even under the most aggressive progressive taxation periods the rich business owners have always grown and have gotten richer. They just don't get richer as fast as they do under a period of lighter progressive taxation, but they never stop growing due to the additional taxes. They stop growing due to failed business plans, poor investing, and when the middle class and the lower class stop buying. It is never the taxes.

It also depends on which businesses you tax. Remember that by making things easier on the middle class you will hasten their ability to grow and start new businesses of their own. You will also see a lot more jobs thanks to the tax breaks that other current small businesses will be getting under Obama's tax plan.

 

[jpeyton]

JSM: Like Bush 90% of the time, even worse than him the other 10%.

 

[bctbct]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
In this economy, if we tax corporations more, won't there be fewer middle class jobs?

you still holding onto that trickle down nonsense after 8 years of Bush?

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
JSM: Like Bush 90% of the time, even worse than him the other 10%.

JP: Spouts DNC talking points 90% of the time, makes up random shit the other 10%

 

[StageLeft]

It's over. Which day will you stop grasping? Tomorrow, Saturday? Tuesday night at 9pm? It's done. It's finished.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
In this economy, if we tax corporations more, won't there be fewer middle class jobs?

you still holding onto that trickle down nonsense after 8 years of Bush?

If a company is struggling to make quarterly expectations, if they have to reduce profits due to higher taxes, they're going to cut jobs(salary being the highest cost to a company) and/or outsource it overseas..

Sorry but I'm a democrat that fortunately knows business and knows that in economy, corporations don't need additional expenses.

 

[bctbct]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
In this economy, if we tax corporations more, won't there be fewer middle class jobs?

you still holding onto that trickle down nonsense after 8 years of Bush?

If a company is struggling to make quarterly expectations, if they have to reduce profits due to higher taxes, they're going to cut jobs(salary being the highest cost to a company).

Sorry but I'm a democrat that fortunately knows business and knows that in economy, corporations don't need additional expenses.

One thing you dont factor in is that companies operate at maximum production now. In order to cut jobs they would have to reduce output. You also dont factor that new orders from consumers will increase business.

Any company that be hurt by the tax cuts will have to lower profit margins...something myself and many other middle class citizens have been doing.

Tax cuts for big business turns into increased profits/ wasteful spending on perks. Big businessmen are going to bank the profits, not trickle it down.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
In this economy, if we tax corporations more, won't there be fewer middle class jobs?

you still holding onto that trickle down nonsense after 8 years of Bush?

If a company is struggling to make quarterly expectations, if they have to reduce profits due to higher taxes, they're going to cut jobs(salary being the highest cost to a company).

Sorry but I'm a democrat that fortunately knows business and knows that in economy, corporations don't need additional expenses.

One thing you dont factor in is that companies operate at maximum production now. In order to cut jobs they would have to reduce output. You also dont factor that new orders from consumers will increase business.

Any company that be hurt by the tax cuts will have to lower profit margins...something myself and many other middle class citizens have been doing.

Tax cuts for big business turns into increased profits/ wasteful spending on perks. Big businessmen are going to bank the profits, not trickle it down.

What country and era are you living in? Maximum production? You mean with companies closing plants, outsourcing production, etc every day?

Sorry but public companies are not going to lower profit margins. They'll reduce expense by outsourcing jobs overseas or laying off people.

 

[bctbct]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
In this economy, if we tax corporations more, won't there be fewer middle class jobs?

you still holding onto that trickle down nonsense after 8 years of Bush?

If a company is struggling to make quarterly expectations, if they have to reduce profits due to higher taxes, they're going to cut jobs(salary being the highest cost to a company).

Sorry but I'm a democrat that fortunately knows business and knows that in economy, corporations don't need additional expenses.

One thing you dont factor in is that companies operate at maximum production now. In order to cut jobs they would have to reduce output. You also dont factor that new orders from consumers will increase business.

Any company that be hurt by the tax cuts will have to lower profit margins...something myself and many other middle class citizens have been doing.

Tax cuts for big business turns into increased profits/ wasteful spending on perks. Big businessmen are going to bank the profits, not trickle it down.

What country and era are you living in? Maximum production? You mean with companies closing plants, outsourcing production, etc every day?

Sorry but public companies are not going to lower profit margins. They'll reduce expense by outsourcing jobs overseas or laying off people.

Should have worded that differently, production quotas are up because fat has already been trimmed to increase profits.

Outsourcing has been less attractive over the years and if loop holes get closed on the tax benefit, may become even less so.

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
In this economy, if we tax corporations more, won't there be fewer middle class jobs?

How do you figure? A corporation hires people why? Charity? No, to make money.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
In this economy, if we tax corporations more, won't there be fewer middle class jobs?

you still holding onto that trickle down nonsense after 8 years of Bush?

If a company is struggling to make quarterly expectations, if they have to reduce profits due to higher taxes, they're going to cut jobs(salary being the highest cost to a company).

Sorry but I'm a democrat that fortunately knows business and knows that in economy, corporations don't need additional expenses.

One thing you dont factor in is that companies operate at maximum production now. In order to cut jobs they would have to reduce output. You also dont factor that new orders from consumers will increase business.

Any company that be hurt by the tax cuts will have to lower profit margins...something myself and many other middle class citizens have been doing.

Tax cuts for big business turns into increased profits/ wasteful spending on perks. Big businessmen are going to bank the profits, not trickle it down.

What country and era are you living in? Maximum production? You mean with companies closing plants, outsourcing production, etc every day?

Sorry but public companies are not going to lower profit margins. They'll reduce expense by outsourcing jobs overseas or laying off people.

Should have worded that differently, production quotas are up because fat has already been trimmed to increase profits.

Outsourcing has been less attractive over the years and if loop holes get closed on the tax benefit, may become even less so.

In the IT business, that's definitely not the case. Outsourcing is growing and becoming more attractive. What industries is outsourcing becoming less attractive?

Do you work for a public company? With today's economy, production is down b/c business is down. If a company has to pay even more in taxes(expenses), you don't think they'll cut their workforce?

I want what you're smoking.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
In this economy, if we tax corporations more, won't there be fewer middle class jobs?

How do you figure? A corporation hires people why? Charity? No, to make money.

Read my other posts.

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
In this economy, if we tax corporations more, won't there be fewer middle class jobs?

How do you figure? A corporation hires people why? Charity? No, to make money.

Read my other posts.

If a corporation can make more profits by firing people, why wouldn't they do it regardless of tax rate?

BTW, aren't salaries deductible??

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: jpeyton
JSM: Like Bush 90% of the time, even worse than him the other 10%.

JP: Spouts DNC talking points 90% of the time, makes up random shit the other 10%

facts we don't like to hear = talking points

Do I have that right?

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: jpeyton
JSM: Like Bush 90% of the time, even worse than him the other 10%.

JP: Spouts DNC talking points 90% of the time, makes up random shit the other 10%

facts we don't like to hear = talking points

Do I have that right?

Where is your sig from?

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton
BTW, aren't salaries deductible??

Salaries are not subject to corporate taxes. The individual earning the salary is taxed at whatever bracket.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: Dari
Where is your sig from?

Text

 

[bctbct]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

In the IT business, that's definitely not the case. Outsourcing is growing and becoming more attractive. What industries is outsourcing becoming less attractive?

Do you work for a public company? With today's economy, production is down b/c business is down. If a company has to pay even more in taxes(expenses), you don't think they'll cut their workforce?

I want what you're smoking.

[/quote]



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Its only a drop in the bucket but its a start.

No I work for a private company. We have slowed down and cut staff, however my employer understands this is temporary and feels maintaining his key staff is important to the next surge. Not the norm probably but that is the point I am trying to make.

Lets not pretend that an employer is going to create more jobs than he needs. I dont believe in growing the economy from the top down, I believe in growth from the bottom up. I work in the construction business and our customers rely on sales.

Unless they are selling products or services they have no need to expand. Giving them tax cuts does not require them to employee more people to stockpile widgets. What they manufacture is purchased by low, middle, and upper class....if they have the money to buy them.

Look at the Foirtune 500 list, the middle class are some of their best customers. You put the money in their hands and it will be spent.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Dari
Where is your sig from?

Text

Sounds interesting. I want to check it out but I don't have the time to read so many books.

 

[quest55720]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
In this economy, if we tax corporations more, won't there be fewer middle class jobs?

you still holding onto that trickle down nonsense after 8 years of Bush?

If a company is struggling to make quarterly expectations, if they have to reduce profits due to higher taxes, they're going to cut jobs(salary being the highest cost to a company) and/or outsource it overseas..

Sorry but I'm a democrat that fortunately knows business and knows that in economy, corporations don't need additional expenses.

I am glad atleast 1 democrat gets it. It is to bad the democratic party got it when clinton was in charge of it. Now days business and people with money are evil and the enemy.