John Cleese attempting to refine his dog whistle (comments about London being less 'English' these days)

[mikeymikec]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-48451384

His second crack (AFAIK) at writing socially acceptable racism:

Some years ago I opined that London was not really an English city any more
Since then, virtually all my friends from abroad have confirmed my observation
So there must be some truth in it...

From 2011:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/lon...e-says-city-is-no-longer-english-6439482.html

Comedian John Cleese sparked fury today after he said that London is "no longer an English city".

"They said 'we're the most cosmopolitan city on Earth' but it doesn't feel English.

"I had a Californian friend come over two months ago, walk down the King's Road and say to me 'well, where are all the English people?'.

Just when you thought that the "I'm not racist, but..." brigade needs to chime in with their two cents:

But he also got support. The official Leave.EU account wrote: "Bravo to British comedy legend and Brexiteer @JohnCleese for speaking up about the state of London.

 

[Veliko]

He was funny once.

Unfortunately he's just a bitter old tosser these days.

 

[TheVrolok]

He was funny once.

Unfortunately he's just a bitter old tosser these days.

Indeed. How unfortunate.

 

[thraashman]

Aww Johnny boy, come on now, you're one of the most brilliant comedic minds of all time! Don't do this to us!

 

[UNCjigga]

Old people be like “what’s happening to *my* world?!!”

SSDD

 

[zinfamous]

Well, he is very, very, very British after all.

 

[kage69]

Well, he is very, very, very British after all.

Well, English anyway...

I'll give John a bit of latitude because he's old and salty and making observations. People lament. You don't have to agree with it, and I don't think you'll be changing his mind. If he wants to jeopardize his legacy with airing that kind of thing, it's a shame, but oh well.

Not sure if he's racist, he ripped on New Zealand while there and they're white.

 

[zinfamous]

Well, English anyway...

This always confuses me. So, you are British if the English like you when you are not English, but want to claim you as their own? Or is it the other way--you are British but they want to claim you as English because you did something special--like claiming Alexander Graham Bell as English?

I'm thinking of a Grand Tour episode back in season 1, I think.

 

[WelshBloke]

Old English chap complains about immigrants in London from his mansion in the Caribbean.

 

[WelshBloke]

This always confuses me. So, you are British if the English like you when you are not English, but want to claim you as their own? Or is it the other way--you are British but they want to claim you as English because you did something special--like claiming Alexander Graham Bell as English?

I'm thinking of a Grand Tour episode back in season 1, I think.

You're British if your Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish and doing well.
You're Scottish, Welsh or NI if you're Scottish, Welsh or NI and not winning.
You're English if you're English and winning, you're British if you're English and losing.

 

[Perknose]

Very disappointed in John Cleese.

I prefer this side of him:

 

[darkswordsman17]

Old English chap complains about immigrants in London from his mansion in the Caribbean.

If there's one thing you can count on conservatives for, its hypocrisy!

Maybe he's "just trolling" he is a comedian after all and as we've been told, they should be able to say whatever they want without anyone being critical, and likewise, if he's "just trolling" then it totally doesn't even matter.

The thing is, he's speaking somewhat truthfully (undoubtedly, the UK and London especially have become more diverse, like just about everywhere else in the world, due to you know, stuff like cheap international travel, international trade agreements fostering business, etc). The real issue is he seemingly is arguing that's a bad thing. I guess we could've had things his way. Should've treated them like Australia, and after the rest of the world kicked the British Empire out left them to themselves on their little island. Then they could have their tea and inbred royal family, and quaint "charm" while the rest of the world enjoys mixing with other cultures (and not in the bow down to us way), and the economic fruits of that.

 

[WelshBloke]

If there's one thing you can count on conservatives for, its hypocrisy!

Maybe he's "just trolling" he is a comedian after all and as we've been told, they should be able to say whatever they want without anyone being critical, and likewise, if he's "just trolling" then it totally doesn't even matter.

Hes just (and I say this as someone getting on themselves) getting old. He's turning into a curmudgeon. He was always a bit prickly.
I'm not saying that everyone gets disturbed by changes as they get older but a significant number of people do.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Hes just (and I say this as someone getting on themselves) getting old. He's turning into a curmudgeon. He was always a bit prickly.
I'm not saying that everyone gets disturbed by changes as they get older but a significant number of people do.

I get that is an explanation people use, but personally I don't think that flies. Plus, where do we draw the line, should we give 70+ year old Turmp a free pass for saying shit like that? Its not like Cleese has no influence, he has plenty of money to fuck things up with as well. Actually age doesn't even explain it (edit: ok, so he was 70 then, so age does kinda still explain it) as he went out of his way to remark how he's said this before (and got called out for it) and is now trying to go "other people are saying it as well, so see I wasn't wrong". To me, dismissing that type of shit over age is no better than the way some try to dismiss things in the way I said (its a joke or trolling).

Old people vote too, and they're often prone to giving money to groups that enact their beliefs.

So, sure, some leeway based on factors like age is fine, and you don't have to be a total dick in response, but, I think responding critically is totally fine. Plus if he wants to pull the political correctness angle at people going "sorry, don't agree" well he can eat an entire grocery chain of spotted dick.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Very disappointed in John Cleese.

I prefer this side of him:

Why disappointed? Early in his career, Cleese and the other Pythons drew the ire of the religious right for their quite British dry humor take on Jesus and other aspects of religious dogma. Cleese in particular furthered his career after Python through parody of the english gentleman persona...Faulty Towers and A Fish Called Wanda come to mind.

He has always been witty and sarcastic. It’s not inherently racist to lament a loss or change of the very identity core to his humor.

It appears he will end his career as he began it, contending with dogma.

Mel Brooks expresses similar sentiments.

 

[hal2kilo]

Does this imply that Terri Gillian is part of the problem?

 

[Perknose]

He has always been witty and sarcastic. It’s not inherently racist to lament a loss or change of the very identity core to his humor. "Some years ago I opined that London was not really an English city any more."

That statement is neither witty nor sarcastic. London is still London, there are simply more brown people. If you don't see the racism embedded in that lament, I can't help you.

Mel Brooks expresses similar sentiments.

Only a person who can't distinguish racism from taking the fucking piss of racism would make such a statement. But, hey, go ahead, give it your best shot!

 

[kage69]

Does this imply that Terri Gillian is part of the problem?

Terry Gilliam's problem is movies.

Michael Palin should perhaps sit his fellow Python down, maybe take one last chance at getting John to relax and learn the subtle art of not giving a fuck. Though he might have his hands full with Terry.

This thread has caused me to take a long gander at my lifetime of enjoying Monty Python and the other projects of it's members. Still think Carol Cleveland should be an official member. For some reason can't stop dwelling on the service for Graham Chapman, where Cleese spoke remarkably and made it look easy, keeping a stiff upper lip the whole time. Probably me just wishing he would regain some of that composure.

 

[hal2kilo]

Terry Gilliam's problem is movies.

Michael Palin should perhaps sit his fellow Python down, maybe take one last chance at getting John to relax and learn the subtle art of not giving a fuck. Though he might have his hands full with Terry.

This thread has caused me to take a long gander at my lifetime of enjoying Monty Python and the other projects of it's members. Still think Hazel should be an official member. For some reason can't stop dwelling on the service for Graham Chapman, where Cleese spoke remarkably and made it look easy, keeping a stiff upper lip the whole time. Probably me just wishing he would regain some of that composure.

Hint Terri is american.

 

[GoodRevrnd]

I dunno, these types of comments frequently have a racist component to them, but it isn't exactly wrong to lament the loss or change of cultural identity.

 

[Moonbeam]

What is racist about saying London isn't any longer English? Last I looked, the US isn't English either. How could not being English be anything but a good thing. Ask any Irishman.

PS: How the fuck do people wind up being proud of something they are just by accident.

 

[compuwiz1]

A coworker says he left England because the culture has been destroyed, whatever that means...

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

He also wrote: "I think it's legitimate to prefer one culture to another. For example, I prefer cultures that do not tolerate female genital mutilation.

 

[kage69]

Hint Terri is american.

He would probably disagree. While born in the US, the majority of his life has been spent in the UK. He went Brit back in the 60s or 70s. Gave up his US citizenship awhile back.

 

[Starbuck1975]

That statement is neither witty nor sarcastic. London is still London, there are simply more brown people. If you don't see the racism embedded in that lament, I can't help you.

There is nothing to see as there is nothing inherently racist about observing that London is no longer culturally English.

Only a person who can't distinguish racism from taking the fucking piss of racism would make such a statement. But, hey, go ahead, give it your best shot!

I don’t know what that expression means.