John Boehner's School Voucher Bill Passed By The House

[comptr6]

Do the math, 4 million a year for the whole country, meaning if we take a $10,000/yr average, the program can serve a whole 400 American students per year.

What do you mean "the whole country"? This is just for kids in DC. Even better is almost all of the money will go to private religious schools.

 

[Lemon law]

What do you mean "the whole country"? This is just for kids in DC. Even better is almost all of the money will go to private religious schools.

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Thank you for correcting me, thankfully its getting warm enough to find me a few worms to eat. And the shame of it, finally subsidy money for all those republican religious right members who don't want to send their kiddies to DC public schools.

Now what me need is less D's and more R's, when we reach nirvana with 435 house R's and a full 100 Senate R's, we must expand the program to include all 535 R's.

We are 135 kids short it is true, we need to expand the program right now.

 

[Zebo]

Good program. All states should institute vouchers as public schools suck. Obama didn't go to a public school why should your child just because they didnt have rich grandparents?

 

[Rainsford]

Good program. All states should institute vouchers as public schools suck. Obama didn't go to a public school why should your child just because they didnt have rich grandparents?

Vouchers are kind of silly, unless you think private schools and the money to send kids there grows on trees. Sure, they're helpful for the few they can help...and that's it. You know why private schools are good? Because it costs a lot of money to go there, and they can be very selective about who gets in. That's not a very realistic model for the entire education system.

 

[Zebo]

Vouchers are kind of silly, unless you think private schools and the money to send kids there grows on trees. Sure, they're helpful for the few they can help...and that's it. You know why private schools are good? Because it costs a lot of money to go there, and they can be very selective about who gets in. That's not a very realistic model for the entire education system.

First of all they are not expensive. I pay around $4000 for 3 for a whole year but I get bulk rate discount. one is like $1900, two is $3200 and three or more is ~ $4000. Locally, public, we spend about $9k ea child for inferior education. There are some that are expensive like Phillips academy where GW went but those are exception to the rule.


I see nothing wrong with being selective as opposed to passing everyone through for expediency sake and dumbing down classrooms.

 

[Uhtrinity]

Sadly, the public schools who had to take the trouble makers back in will be compared to the charter schools to "prove" that charter schools are better.

I don't believe that at all. For the last 5 years I have worked in a public Charter School in Idaho as Technical Coordinator. First, we have become a Magnet School, but mostly for special needs kids ~12% special ed and 20% Title 1 (kids who need additional help with reading) and we still do better academically than most schools in the area. Most of the 'trouble' kids we get were either bullied or didn't get the attention they needed and succeed academically. In rare cases, maybe 2 - 3 students a year, we have a trouble kid that does whatever he / she can do to get booted out. Most of these kids find our social atmosphere too restrictive and want regular public school. Most of these result in voluntary withdrawal by the parents. Never once in 5 years have we had to expel one of these kids. This is with a student population of ~275.

Our open seats are based on an annual lottery, so there is no special consideration given to students for those seats. And due to the size of that waiting list (~250 students) another board is submitting a charter proposal for a sister school. We only receieve about 80% of the funding the regular districts get per student and have excellent results. This is one of those things that shouldn't be a red / blue issue.

edit: Btw, as to the op, I don't care for vouchers to private schools as they go to very few students. But I am in complete support for Public Charter Schools that show positive results.

 

[silverpig]

I don't believe that at all. For the last 5 years I have worked in a public Charter School in Idaho as Technical Coordinator. First, we have become a Magnet School, but mostly for special needs kids ~12% special ed and 20% Title 1 (kids who need additional help with reading) and we still do better academically than most schools in the area. Most of the 'trouble' kids we get were either bullied or didn't get the attention they needed and succeed academically. In rare cases, maybe 2 - 3 students a year, we have a trouble kid that does whatever he / she can do to get booted out. Most of these kids find our social atmosphere too restrictive and want regular public school. Most of these result in voluntary withdrawal by the parents. Never once in 5 years have we had to expel one of these kids. This is with a student population of ~275.

Our open seats are based on an annual lottery, so there is no special consideration given to students for those seats. And due to the size of that waiting list (~250 students) another board is submitting a charter proposal for a sister school. We only receieve about 80% of the funding the regular districts get per student and have excellent results. This is one of those things that shouldn't be a red / blue issue.

edit: Btw, as to the op, I don't care for vouchers to private schools as they go to very few students. But I am in complete support for Public Charter Schools that show positive results.

But that's in Idaho. Correct me if I'm wrong but Idaho doesn't have the same problem kids that DC would have.

 

[Uhtrinity]

But that's in Idaho. Correct me if I'm wrong but Idaho doesn't have the same problem kids that DC would have.

I'm not arguing for vouchers, but for Charter Schools; mainly the ones that involve the parents as well as the students. Imho that is the biggest issue with Inner city schools; the parents are not involved or vested in their kid's education and or the schools don't give the parents the tools to support their kids and school.

In Idaho we have issues as well with low performing schools and most of that I feel is attributed to parents not being vested. For last years achievement tests very few schools in the area met or exceeded state standards. Fortunately we did very well. But we require parents be involved. If a child has an issue at school the parents are brought into the loop immediately. If necessary they are inconvenienced. Regular public schools don't have the resources or policies to support this, our parents on the other hand expect it.

 

[ShawnD1]

What's so bad about school vouchers? Private school is usually cheaper than public school, but it gets better results because they're allowed to be assholes when it's needed. Your kid sucks? Out. Your kid is a bully? Out. Your kid smells bad? Out. A public school has a much harder time kicking people out because public is seen differently. People seem to respect that private organizations are allowed to kick you out, but it's an OUTRAGE when people are kicked off public property.

 

[Fern]

Vouchers are kind of silly, unless you think private schools and the money to send kids there grows on trees. Sure, they're helpful for the few they can help...and that's it. You know why private schools are good? Because it costs a lot of money to go there, and they can be very selective about who gets in. That's not a very realistic model for the entire education system.

That's not at all true. There are many private schools that cost less per-child that public schools.

DC public schools, in particular, are claimed to have a very high per-child cost. It's claimed to be as high as $25,000.

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WTF? This a damn spending bill!
-snip-

Not so sure.

Maybe a school administrator can chime in, but my understanding is that public schools get fed/state funds allocated based on headcount.

If you move children out of the public school and over to the charter/private schools it may end up costing nothing. You're just shifting funds from the one school to another, perhaps no net cost.

Fern

 

[Fern]

What's so bad about school vouchers? Private school is usually cheaper than public school, but it gets better results because they're allowed to be assholes when it's needed. Your kid sucks? Out. Your kid is a bully? Out. Your kid smells bad? Out. A public school has a much harder time kicking people out because public is seen differently. People seem to respect that private organizations are allowed to kick you out, but it's an OUTRAGE when people are kicked off public property.

I see this argument often, no doubt it's true to some extent. But to what extent?

IMO, the big problem with poor performance in schools is lack of concern, a lack of motivation by the student. I'm speaking specifically to parental involvement. The parents don't care, the student is unlikely to care. So, this is a parental issue mostly, IMO.

We've seen many examples where poorer income students, regardless of race etc, do as well as other children when their parents are involved and make sure the kids do their homewroks etc. The parents care.

I suspect the kids that have parents go through the hassle of getting vouchers etc are the ones who care enough to push their kids to do well in school.

I.e., it's the parents of kids in charter/private who make the real difference; not the schools ability to expell unmotivated troublesome students.

Fern

 

[JS80]

Sadly, the public schools who had to take the trouble makers back in will be compared to the charter schools to "prove" that charter schools are better.

404 sadness not found.

 

[Uhtrinity]

That's not at all true. There are many private schools that cost less per-child that public schools.

DC public schools, in particular, are claimed to have a very high per-child cost. It's claimed to be as high as $25,000.

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Not so sure.

Maybe a school administrator can chime in, but my understanding is that public schools get fed/state funds allocated based on headcount.

If you move children out of the public school and over to the charter/private schools it may end up costing nothing. Your just shifting funds from the one school to another, perhaps no net cost.

Fern

It is based on a combination of headcount, attendance, special needs population, teacher qualifications, and test results.

The shift to most charter schools will actually cost tax payers less. In our case it is about a 20% savings due to less admin overhead. We also don't have the power to request tax levy's like regular districts.

 

[Fern]

-snip-
In our case it is about a 20% savings due to less admin overhead.

Excellent.

Are you in DC? (you say "our case")

Fern

 

[Uhtrinity]

I.e., it's the parents of kids in charter/private who make the real difference; not the schools ability to expell unmotivated troublesome students.

Fern

Partially. Without the parents supporting the students, charter schools would not be able to accelerate academics as successfully. With parent support this can happen and work. This can also apply to other things like culture or the social atmosphere within a school which are also important.

 

[Uhtrinity]

Excellent.

Are you in DC? (you say "our case")

Fern

No, Idaho as mentioned earlier. Again my experience isn't with vouchers, but the public charter schools as I've worked in one for 5 years as Technical Coordinator (network, lab instructor, etc.). I work closely with the admin and office staff for the whole time due to my IT role.

 

[ShawnD1]

404 sadness not found.

This. If those little bastards get kicked out of public school, they should stay kicked out.

 

[Jhhnn]

First of all they are not expensive. I pay around $4000 for 3 for a whole year but I get bulk rate discount. one is like $1900, two is $3200 and three or more is ~ $4000. Locally, public, we spend about $9k ea child for inferior education. There are some that are expensive like Phillips academy where GW went but those are exception to the rule.

Either you're fooling yourself or trying to fool us, because children simply can't be educated for $1K/yr/ student. Whatever school your children attend, it must necessarily receive enormous amounts of funding from sources other than the parents.

That funding won't jump up magically if vouchers become more widespread. The effect will likely be to reduce the amount of funding support per student, thus raising the price to parents.

Like I said earlier, vouchers will never meet the full costs of private schools, no matter how badly some want to say that they will.

 

[Zebo]

Either you're fooling yourself or trying to fool us, because children simply can't be educated for $1K/yr/ student. Whatever school your children attend, it must necessarily receive enormous amounts of funding from sources other than the parents.

That funding won't jump up magically if vouchers become more widespread. The effect will likely be to reduce the amount of funding support per student, thus raising the price to parents.

Like I said earlier, vouchers will never meet the full costs of private schools, no matter how badly some want to say that they will.

In some European countries over 75% go to vouchered schools. If they can do it we can too. I won't send you to link to my children school but that's the rate.

Incidentally I went to a private boarding school that's room and board and education and it is only $21,000 which is less than some districts spend.