John Ashcroft = Bigger S.O.B. than you could possibly imagine

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
It's funny how the debate about the patriot act and other controversial anti-terrorism initiatives
by Ashcroft get scrutinized yet several domestic initiatves headed by Ashcroft and the
department of justice slip under the radar screen of most Americans. I present to you several
articles dealing with several issues including medicinal marijuana, assisted suicide, and
pornography:

http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,44398,00.html



<< WASHINGTON -- Look out, Internet sextrepreneurs: John Aschroft wants you to serve
hard time.

In explicit terms, the attorney general told Congress this week that hardcore sex sites
would no longer be selling peeks at balloon-breasted babes.

"I am concerned about obscenity and I'm concerned about obscenity as it relates to
our children," Ashcroft said in his first appearance before the House Judiciary
Committee.

He said Justice Department prosecutors would help state officials imprison sex-site
operators that feature obscene images: "We try to be especially accommodating to
local law enforcement to assist them, and I would think that would be an objective of
ours in this respect."

A number of Republicans asked Ashcroft to pledge to prosecute raunch and ribaldry,
but Rep. Bob Goodlatte of Virginia -- who also, unbelievably, is co-chair of the
Internet Caucus -- was the most persistent.

"The failure of the (Clinton) administration to enforce those laws has led to a
proliferation of obscenity, both online and off," Goodlatte said. "And I am particularly
concerned about the safety of our children on the Internet, where they're subjected
to child pornography and solicitation in a massive way."

Asked Goodlatte: "I'd like to know to what extent the Justice Department will use its
resources to assist state and local enforcement in combating this cyberattack on our
nation's children."

Goodlatte was also a big fan of the Communications Decency Act, which the Supreme
Court tossed out in 1997 as an affront to free speech.

Obscenity, which the Supreme Court ruled is not protected by the First Amendment,
is textual or graphical material that appeals to someone's "prurient interest," runs
afoul of local community standards, and lacks any literary, artistic, political or
scientific value.
>>



Had i not watched PBS's 'frontline' episode (yes i was bored) about pornography, i wouldn't even
know about this. Interestingly enough, according to frontline, the 9/11 incident put the kabosh on
his initiative temporarily but it looks like he's going to go after pornographers full force soon
enough. And according to frontline, the supreme court's meaning of 'obscenity' includes your
average vanilla stuff in the DPPH board. If that means i will no longer get my daily dose of lesbian
pr0n, i will be VERY VERY irrate at the whitehouse.


http://www.sptimes.com/News/111301/...oral_stan.shtml



<< Ashcroft's moral stand out of line
© St. Petersburg Times,
published November 13, 2001

During the confirmation hearing of Attorney General John Ashcroft,
Democratic senators wanted to know whether Ashcroft's religious and
ideological conservatism would influence federal law enforcement on
controversial social issues. At the time, Ashcroft promised to apply
the law objectively, even if it meant going against his personal
beliefs. Now senators who took him at his word must feel betrayed.

In a double-whammy, the Justice Department has announced that it
intends to use federal legal muscle to negate citizen initiatives in
California and Oregon.

In California, residents approved the use of marijuana for medicinal
purposes in 1996. Since then, seven other states have followed suit.
But last month, federal agents began a crackdown on medical
marijuana, raiding a doctor's office, destroying a marijuana growing
operation run by patients and shutting down a cannabis club in West
Hollywood that had the full backing of city officials.

In Oregon, where residents approved a physician-assisted suicide
initiative not once but twice, the Justice Department has threatened
to revoke the prescription license of doctors who participate in a
terminally ill patient's suicide. Like many Americans, we have some
reservations about physician-assisted suicide, but we believe it is a
matter for dying patients and their doctors -- not the federal Drug
Enforcement Administration.

Regardless of how one feels about the merits of marijuana as
medicine or the ethics of doctor-assisted suicide, the disturbingly
long reach of federal authority suggests that this is not impartial law
enforcement, but rather the imposition of an ideological agenda. It's
interesting how some Republicans champion "states' rights" until a
state chooses a social policy at odds with party dogma.

The department says its actions are on solid legal footing and points
to a U.S. Supreme Court ruling in May that recognized the supremacy
of federal law in determining the legality of various uses for controlled
substances. However, the court never ruled that federal law was
morally superior to a compassionate social policy that allows doctors
to try and alleviate the suffering of their patients.

In both states, the issues involve Americans who are facing terrible
health problems and seeking relief. A growing body of evidence
suggests that marijuana effectively reduces nausea for cancer
patients undergoing chemotherapy and reverses the wasting
syndrome for people with AIDS.

In Oregon, only terminally ill people may take advantage of assisted
suicide. Since 1997, only about 70 people have done so, and then
only after two doctors determined they had fewer than six months to
live and were competent to make the decision. The state has now
filed suit against the Justice Department and a federal judge has
enjoined the Justice Department from interfering -- at least
temporarily.

When Janet Reno was attorney general, the department also raided
medical marijuana clubs in California, but during the last years of her
tenure she took a more hands-off approach. As to the Oregon "death
with dignity" measure, Reno made the determination that her
department would not interfere with its implementation.

At a time when the federal government should be worrying about the
threat of terrorism and public safety, Ashcroft has decided to
squander resources threatening doctors and second-guessing the
way medicine is practiced. The attorney general should resist the
urge to impose his own moral code on the suffering and dying.
>>



This i heard about from 'politically incorrect'. And again, most americans probably
don't know about this either. The f**ked up thing about this is that this
happened not very long after 9/11. Priorities... where the f**k are you?

I especially like this quote from the 2nd article:



<< It's interesting how some Republicans champion "states' rights" until a
state chooses a social policy at odds with party dogma.
>>












 

TheBlondOne

Golden Member
Jul 14, 2001
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I don't have much to say about assisted suicide or medicinal marijuana (both of which I am a proponent of).

However, the pornography issue I think is a little more complicated than you're making it out to be. Under Clinton, the pornography industry boomed. OK, that's all well and good, except that part of the industry that boombed included videos/pics of incest, rape, bestiality, etc. And there are LAWS against that kind of hardcore porn. Ashcroft primarily wants to tackle those types of pornogrpahy. The kinds that are already ILLEGAL (and that the Clinton administration didn't deal with). Now, as far as lesbianism and stuff goes, I'm sure you'll still have access to that.

*as all the men breathe a sigh of relief*

--Sarah
 
Oct 16, 1999
10,490
4
0
Ashcroft is one of those fundamentalist assholes that thinks everything that HE deems a sin should be criminal as well. And it's damn scary he's in a postition to make that happen.

TheBlondOne, don't be fooled, Ashcroft is a religious zealot. He'd outlaw dancing if he could.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126


<< I don't have much to say about assisted suicide or medicinal marijuana (both of which I am a proponent of).

However, the pornography issue I think is a little more complicated than you're making it out to be. Under Clinton, the pornography industry boomed. OK, that's all well and good, except that part of the industry that boombed included videos/pics of incest, rape, bestiality, etc. And there are LAWS against that kind of hardcore porn. Ashcroft primarily wants to tackle those types of pornogrpahy. The kinds that are already ILLEGAL (and that the Clinton administration didn't deal with). Now, as far as lesbianism and stuff goes, I'm sure you'll still have access to that.

*as all the men breathe a sigh of relief*

--Sarah
>>



That's not particularly true. Here's a partial list of some of the thing s that might be attacked:

No shots with appearance of pain or degradation

No facials (bodyshots are OK if shot is not nasty)

No bukakke

No spitting or saliva mouth to mouth

No food used as sex object

No peeing unless in a natural setting, e.g., field, roadside

No coffins

No blindfolds

No wax dripping

No two d*cks in/near one mouth

No shot of stretching p**sy

No fisting

No squirting

No bondage-type toys or gear unless very light

No girls sharing same dildo (in mouth or p*ssy)

Toys are OK if shot is not nasty

No hands from 2 different people fingering same girl

No male/male penetration

No transsexuals

No bi-sex

No degrading dialogue, e.g., "Suck this c*ck, b1tch" while slapping her face with a penis

No menstruation topics

No incest topics

No forced sex, rape themes, etc.

No black men-white women themes


The parts i bolded are either a)something i'm interested that i think shouldn't be censored in b)something i'm not interested in but i think shouldn't be censored. Notice some of this stuff concerns blacks and gays?

edit: uh why doesn't bolding work?
 

TheBlondOne

Golden Member
Jul 14, 2001
1,081
0
0


<<
TheBlondOne, don't be fooled, Ashcroft is a religious zealot. He'd outlaw dancing if he could.
>>



I know he's a fundamentalist. I'm not stupid. But he recognizes his job. And heck, if he said clearly that he will uphold Roe v. Wade, then that's pretty commendable to me (as far as putting your personal interests second to your job), and so far he's done that.

And plus, doesn't EVERY politician try to do what they think is best for the nation? Some want tax cuts, some want tax increases, all because they think that's what's best. Well, maybe Ashcroft in all of his fundamentalism thinks that HIS views are what's best for the country.

--Sarah
 

BooneRebel

Platinum Member
Mar 22, 2001
2,229
0
0
Where in the world did that list come from? Certainly not the Supreme Court or John Ashcroft...
 

TheBlondOne

Golden Member
Jul 14, 2001
1,081
0
0


<<

That's not particularly true. Here's a partial list of some of the thing s that might be attacked:

No shots with appearance of pain or degradation

No facials (bodyshots are OK if shot is not nasty)

No bukakke

No spitting or saliva mouth to mouth

No food used as sex object

No peeing unless in a natural setting, e.g., field, roadside

No coffins

No blindfolds

No wax dripping

No two d*cks in/near one mouth

No shot of stretching p**sy

No fisting

No squirting

No bondage-type toys or gear unless very light

No girls sharing same dildo (in mouth or p*ssy)

Toys are OK if shot is not nasty[/]b

No hands from 2 different people fingering same girl

No male/male penetration

No transsexuals

No bi-sex

No degrading dialogue, e.g., "Suck this c*ck, b1tch" while slapping her face with a penis

No menstruation topics

No incest topics

No forced sex, rape themes, etc.

No black men-white women themes


The parts i bolded are either a)something i'm interested that i think shouldn't be censored in b)something i'm not interested in but i think shouldn't be censored. Notice some of this stuff concerns blacks and gays?
>>



I'd really like to know where you got this list. Not that I think you made it up, I would just like to see the source. If they're right, then I take back what I said and he IS going too far.

--Sarah
 

JupiterJones

Senior member
Jun 14, 2001
642
0
0
Ashcroft is one of those fundamentalist assholes that thinks everything that HE deems a sin should be criminal as well. And it's damn scary he's in a postition to make that happen.

Don't blame Ashcroft for enforcing existing laws. If you want the laws changed, then call your congressman.

Don
 

TheBlondOne

Golden Member
Jul 14, 2001
1,081
0
0
So...essentially it was the porn industry OVERREACTING. That's just what they're afraid of, kinda like you. They think that just because Ashcroft is religious that he's going to go nuts censuring stuff.

And of course because Ashcroft had something to do with Bob Jones University they had to throw in the black-white issue, which is RIDICULOUS.

You're wrong on this one, buddy. And so are they. If they censure anyting worse than bestiality and rape and incest, I will be very, VERY surprised.

--Sarah
 
Oct 16, 1999
10,490
4
0
Ashcroft only upheld Roe vs. Wade because of potential political backlash. He's already laid the groundwork to have that overturned in the future by having a fetus classified as a 'child' for medical benefits. He knows he's got a shot with this because what politician is going to risk being labeled as a pot-smoking porn monger in opposition to him? Politicians do what they think is best for the country, but this should be based on logic and facts, not personal moral beleifs. Law should not dictate moral right and wrong and moral right and wrong should not dictate law. Hitler is a pretty damn good example that comes to mind as to why.
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,057
67
91
John Ashcroft is living proof of the statement I want to see on a bumper sticker --

Fun-da-Mental-ists are Neither!

They're not fun, and they are certainly not much for mental capabilities.
rolleye.gif
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126


<< So...essentially it was the porn industry OVERREACTING. That's just what they're afraid of, kinda like you. They think that just because Ashcroft is religious that he's going to go nuts censuring stuff.

And of course because Ashcroft had something to do with Bob Jones University they had to throw in the black-white issue, which is RIDICULOUS.

You're wrong on this one, buddy. And so are they. If they censure anyting worse than bestiality and rape and incest, I will be very, VERY surprised.

--Sarah
>>



You're still wrong, ashcroft and the justice system is still going to prosecute some of this stuff. From frontline (i'm quoting myself from another board here):



<< If you watched the frontline episode, you will surely know it's NOT ONLY about the children, fool.
It's about 'hardcore' porn. As we speak, Seymore Butts is being sued for one of his videos
because apparently, it has a girl/girl 'fisting' (i put this in quotes because the hand isn't in a 'fist'
shape) scene in it. It's pretty interesting because having a porno where a person inserts four
fingers is totally legal, but once the thumb goes into play, it falls under some bullsh1t 'obscenity'
law.
>>

 

Tominator

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,559
1
0
Well, let's see....

Enforce the Law of the Land and you get lambasted and called names. Ashcroft comes to mind..

Ignore the law and use this to political benefit while not upholding the law and subverting it's meaning and you run for Governor of Florida...Reno comes to mind.


Ashcroft is doing his job where Reno did nothing in 8 years except watch Clinron's butt...


Most Americans are FOR his activities involving Porn and Medical Canabus....I am as well.

 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126


<< Tomlinator said:

Most Americans are FOR his activities involving Porn and Medical Canabus....I am as well.
>>



I think what you meant to saw was, "Most Fascist Christian Right Wingers are FOR his activities involving Porn and Medical Canabus [sic]...I am a fascist christian as well."
 

GTaudiophile

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
29,767
33
81
I would be a better person without pr0n! It really is bad sh!t in any form.

I applaud Ashcroft and enourage him in his efforts.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0


<< Most Americans are FOR his activities involving Porn and Medical Canabus....I am as well. >>

So you are for forcing others to go by your moral standards, even if that means inprisoning them.

I think Ashcroft would be better off enforcing the laws regarding Government corruption. That should be enough to keep him and his Moral Goose Steppers busy for the remainder of his term.
 

mithrandir2001

Diamond Member
May 1, 2001
6,545
1
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In order to receive desparately needed tax cuts, we also had to take this bitter pill called John Ashcroft. It's never win-win. There's always some debilitating loss for every gain that you make. Had Gore been president, we never would have seen necessary broad tax cuts, but we likely would have had a more sensible Attorney General. Ashcroft was Bush's bone for the ultra right-wingers...and now the nation must suffer.

Social conservative zealots like Ashcroft serve little more than a puppet for the pulpit. Jerry Falwell and his cronies are pulling the strings.
 

Jimbo

Platinum Member
Oct 10, 1999
2,641
0
76
Phokus:

<< That's not particularly true. Here's a partial list of some of the thing s that might be attacked:... >>




Quit trying to scare everybody. The only thing specifically mentioned is CHILD PORNOGRAPHY. Now if that is what you are in to then I can see why you would be upset.
Unless Ashcroft has figured out a way to circumvent the Supreme Court, and THEIR prior rulings on pornography, your list of what MIGHT be banned is something pulled out of someone?s A$$ that won?t happen.
As for the medical marijuana debate this still is working its way through the courts. Now I am all for the legalization of marijuana (why should the terminally ill get to have all of the fun), but passing voter referendums (that are contrary to federal law) without squaring things with the Feds first, is asking for trouble. Of course there is going to be a conflict.
 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
14,000
2
0
Right wingers want to turn the US into Taliban.
This is going to be a huge waste of court time and government money.
In terms of the materials described, how do you differentiate between real and simulated stuff. Are you gonna call people in the video to court and ask them if it was forced or voluntary.
 

AaronP

Diamond Member
Feb 27, 2000
4,359
0
0
Right wingers want to turn the US into Taliban.

your name is apprioate, you are a tool.
 

SagaLore

Elite Member
Dec 18, 2001
24,036
21
81


<< Ashcroft is one of those fundamentalist assholes that thinks everything that HE deems a sin should be criminal as well. And it's damn scary he's in a postition to make that happen.

TheBlondOne, don't be fooled, Ashcroft is a religious zealot. He'd outlaw dancing if he could.
>>



And that makes you an anti-religious zealot. Who cares what religion he is - a politician should do their job based on their moral belief. If they don't, then it's only to get themselves re-elected each year - a popularity contest. Perhaps you're just not used to seeing a politician with an actual backbone.

If you don't like his agenda then you vote officials into office that will push *you're* agenda. It's as simple as that. That way, whatever you deem as *not a sin*, will not be criminal.