Joe Biden says it perfectly

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: alchemize
Could a leftie please define for me "finishing the job in afghanistan"? Thanks.

What's the matter? Heven't been reading or watching any news for the last six years? :roll:

It's a bit late to try, now, but do you think it could have meant not pulling troops and resources out of Afghanistan to launch a fictitious war in Iraq based entirely on administration lies and finishing the battle against our real enemies, Al Qaeda and the Taliban morons, instead of attempting to outsource the job to Afghani warlords who were more interested in saving their opium crops? :shocked:

In case you haven't noticed, we could have captured Bin Laden at Tora Bora... if we'd had American manpower available to do the job, the Taliban are now making significant returns to power in parts of Afghanistan, and terrorist attacks, there are on the rise. OTOH, Saddam was in a box where he couldn't do anything more than posture for the cameras.

Get a clue -- Your President's a liar, a traitor and a bungling fool who couldn't manage a competent battle against athlete's foot, let alone enemy terrorists. :thumbsdown: :| :thumbsdown:

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Does anyone really believe that getting bin Laden substantially changes anything?

Absolutely 100% it does.

If OBL were captured, it would have sent a clear and precise message to anyone else that thought attacking us was a good idea. That message is simple, you cannot attack the US and get away with it. We will hunt you down no matter the resources you think are available to you.

The very fact that he is allowed to wander free is proof positive to others that you can do whatever you want (short of hording oil) and the Bush administration will forget you are even of importance while they run off to their next bogus adventure.

I concur. Capturing/killing bin laden would represent a HUGE symbolic victory, and I totally disagree with the adminstrations perspective that "he's not important". Pride, face and symbolism are often times more important than tactical victories. Look at abu ghraib, look at attacks prevented.

Are you seriously going to f'in sit here and say that Abu Gharib prevented attacks?

 

[Pens1566]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Pens1566
It would involve the following:

1) Catching/killing Bin Laden, Zawahiri, Mullah Omar etc.. The infamous Al Qaeda #3 that has been killed or captured 52 times over doesn't count.

2) Not pulling special forces out of Afghanistan to prepare for the invasion of Iraq while all the Afghan leadership really controls is Kabul.

3) Sending in enough troops so that we don't have to rely on backstabbing warlords (outsourcing) to hunt down those listed in #1.

Just a starter to get you going.

So you propose

1) Dramatically increasing troop levels (sorry we can't go back in history to "finish the job", we're talking today forward)
2) Invading pakistan and/or Iran if necessary to achieve the objectives outlined


So where's the legislation being introduced by the democrats to force the president to do this?

Or are we just playing the blame game and Biden/the dems really have no intent of "finishing the job"? Cause the job can still be "finished"

Nice of you to suggest that the "dems" need to come up with ideas on how to clean up another one of king george's messes. What I gave you is what should have been done in the first place, but we had more important things to do like go after the real terrists in Iraq. I love how the original screw up is ignored and blame shifted to the party not in any power right now is put down since they haven't fixed the screw up that wasn't theirs to begin with.

+1 for redirecting blame

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: Pens1566

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Pens1566
It would involve the following:

1) Catching/killing Bin Laden, Zawahiri, Mullah Omar etc.. The infamous Al Qaeda #3 that has been killed or captured 52 times over doesn't count.

2) Not pulling special forces out of Afghanistan to prepare for the invasion of Iraq while all the Afghan leadership really controls is Kabul.

3) Sending in enough troops so that we don't have to rely on backstabbing warlords (outsourcing) to hunt down those listed in #1.

Just a starter to get you going.

So you propose

1) Dramatically increasing troop levels (sorry we can't go back in history to "finish the job", we're talking today forward)
2) Invading pakistan and/or Iran if necessary to achieve the objectives outlined


So where's the legislation being introduced by the democrats to force the president to do this?

Or are we just playing the blame game and Biden/the dems really have no intent of "finishing the job"? Cause the job can still be "finished"

Nice of you to suggest that the "dems" need to come up with ideas on how to clean up another one of king george's messes. What I gave you is what should have been done in the first place, but we had more important things to do like go after the real terrists in Iraq. I love how the original screw up is ignored and blame shifted to the party not in any power right now is put down since they haven't fixed the screw up that wasn't theirs to begin with.

+1 for redirecting blame

If you're not a fan of ignoring original sentiments, why don't you answer the question instead of evading it? Do you propose doing the two things alchemize noted? If not, what would you do?

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Pens1566

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Pens1566
It would involve the following:

1) Catching/killing Bin Laden, Zawahiri, Mullah Omar etc.. The infamous Al Qaeda #3 that has been killed or captured 52 times over doesn't count.

2) Not pulling special forces out of Afghanistan to prepare for the invasion of Iraq while all the Afghan leadership really controls is Kabul.

3) Sending in enough troops so that we don't have to rely on backstabbing warlords (outsourcing) to hunt down those listed in #1.

Just a starter to get you going.

So you propose

1) Dramatically increasing troop levels (sorry we can't go back in history to "finish the job", we're talking today forward)
2) Invading pakistan and/or Iran if necessary to achieve the objectives outlined


So where's the legislation being introduced by the democrats to force the president to do this?

Or are we just playing the blame game and Biden/the dems really have no intent of "finishing the job"? Cause the job can still be "finished"

Nice of you to suggest that the "dems" need to come up with ideas on how to clean up another one of king george's messes. What I gave you is what should have been done in the first place, but we had more important things to do like go after the real terrists in Iraq. I love how the original screw up is ignored and blame shifted to the party not in any power right now is put down since they haven't fixed the screw up that wasn't theirs to begin with.

+1 for redirecting blame

So Biden and the dems are just blowing smoke up our asses, they really have no intent or plan for "finishing the job".

This has nothing (and everything) to do with blame, this has to do with "what are the dems going to do about it". Which is apparently just play the blame game and do nothing.

This is why the dems are a complete failure. They are nothing but anti's. They might win eventually, then they'll look around sheepishly at each other and say "now what, how are we going to fix this mess? I know - let's have lots of investigations and blame sessions, we gotta permanently get ourselves in power!"

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: alchemize
Could a leftie please define for me "finishing the job in afghanistan"? Thanks.

What's the matter? Heven't been reading or watching any news for the last six years? :roll:

It's a bit late to try, now, but do you think it could have meant finishing the battle against our real enemies, Al Qaeda and the Taliban morons and not pulling troops and resources out of Afghanistan and diverting them to a fictitious war in Iraq based entirely on administration lies? :shocked:

In case you haven't noticed, we could have captured Bin Laden at Tora Bora... if we'd had American manpower available to do the job, the Taliban are now making significant returns to power in parts of Afghanistan, and terrorist attacks, there are on the rise. OTOH, Saddam was in a box where he couldn't do anything more than posture for the cameras.

Get a clue -- Your President's a liar, a traitor and a bungling fool who couldn't manage a competent battle against athlete's foot, let alone enemy terrorists. :thumbsdown: :| :thumbsdown:

Yah yah we've all heard your whining and ranting before Harvey, save it for someone who cares. So the Dems plan is to invent a time machine and go back and fix all those things?

That isn't happening, so its more of the same. Whine whine whine. Elect us, we have no plan but things will be better.

I ask again, how will the Dems "finish the job". And why can't they start that process now hmm?

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Does anyone really believe that getting bin Laden substantially changes anything?

Absolutely 100% it does.

If OBL were captured, it would have sent a clear and precise message to anyone else that thought attacking us was a good idea. That message is simple, you cannot attack the US and get away with it. We will hunt you down no matter the resources you think are available to you.

The very fact that he is allowed to wander free is proof positive to others that you can do whatever you want (short of hording oil) and the Bush administration will forget you are even of importance while they run off to their next bogus adventure.

I concur. Capturing/killing bin laden would represent a HUGE symbolic victory, and I totally disagree with the adminstrations perspective that "he's not important". Pride, face and symbolism are often times more important than tactical victories. Look at abu ghraib, look at attacks prevented.

Are you seriously going to f'in sit here and say that Abu Gharib prevented attacks?

Not at all - let me clarify. abu ghraib was very symbolic even though it was a "small thing" in the grand scheme. Conversely, attacks being prevented are very symbolic even though a small number of folks are captured. Bin Ladens capture/death, while only one man who is probably a figurehead, would be very symbolic.

 

[Pens1566]

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Pens1566

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Pens1566
It would involve the following:

1) Catching/killing Bin Laden, Zawahiri, Mullah Omar etc.. The infamous Al Qaeda #3 that has been killed or captured 52 times over doesn't count.

2) Not pulling special forces out of Afghanistan to prepare for the invasion of Iraq while all the Afghan leadership really controls is Kabul.

3) Sending in enough troops so that we don't have to rely on backstabbing warlords (outsourcing) to hunt down those listed in #1.

Just a starter to get you going.

So you propose

1) Dramatically increasing troop levels (sorry we can't go back in history to "finish the job", we're talking today forward)
2) Invading pakistan and/or Iran if necessary to achieve the objectives outlined


So where's the legislation being introduced by the democrats to force the president to do this?

Or are we just playing the blame game and Biden/the dems really have no intent of "finishing the job"? Cause the job can still be "finished"

Nice of you to suggest that the "dems" need to come up with ideas on how to clean up another one of king george's messes. What I gave you is what should have been done in the first place, but we had more important things to do like go after the real terrists in Iraq. I love how the original screw up is ignored and blame shifted to the party not in any power right now is put down since they haven't fixed the screw up that wasn't theirs to begin with.

+1 for redirecting blame

If you're not a fan of ignoring original sentiments, why don't you answer the question instead of evading it? Do you propose doing the two things alchemize noted? If not, what would you do?

At this point, I don't know exactly what can be done to fix it outside of admitting our mistake in Iraq, and redirecting our efforts where they should be. Afghanistan. Then again, I'm a big fan of not driving the bus off the cliff in the first place, instead of having the passengers try to figure out how to put it back together again after it explodes in the ravine.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: alchemize
Yah yah we've all heard your whining and ranting before Harvey, save it for someone who cares. So the Dems plan is to invent a time machine and go back and fix all those things?

What's the matter? Can't stand the truth? If you've heard it all before, why the fsck didn't you get the message? It's only reality.

That isn't happening, so its more of the same. Whine whine whine. Elect us, we have no plan but things will be better.

I ask again, how will the Dems "finish the job". And why can't they start that process now hmm?

Your commando in cheif and his gang of criminals lead us into this mess that's cost thousands of lives and trillions of dollars, and now it's the minority's fault that they can't somehow instantly clean up the sh8 pile the Bushwhackos left in their wake? BRILLIANT! :roll:

Get over yourself. The first and most important job is to get rid of the criminal morons that have already proven their total incompetence to do this job or anything else they've attempted. :thumbsdown: :| :thumbsdown:

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: alchemize
Yah yah we've all heard your whining and ranting before Harvey, save it for someone who cares. So the Dems plan is to invent a time machine and go back and fix all those things?

What's the matter? Can't stand the truth? If you've heard it all before, why the fsck didn't you get the message? It's only reality.

That isn't happening, so its more of the same. Whine whine whine. Elect us, we have no plan but things will be better.

I ask again, how will the Dems "finish the job". And why can't they start that process now hmm?

Your commando in cheif and his gang of criminals lead us into this mess that's cost thousands of lives and trillions of dollars, and now it's the minority's fault that they can't somehow instantly clean up the sh8 pile the Bushwhackos left in their wake? BRILLIANT! :roll:

Get over yourself. The first and most important job is to get rid of the criminal morons that have already proven their total incompetence to do this job or anything else they've attempted. :thumbsdown: :| :thumbsdown:

As I said, save your drooling song and dance for someone who cares.

OK you little whiny vindictive partisan puke - so you lock every Bushie up in chains and frog march them off to prison. You've won, you are in power.

I ask YET again, how will the Dems "finish the job".

 

[outriding]

Originally posted by: alchemize

I ask again, how will the Dems "finish the job". And why can't they start that process now hmm?

Why is it up to the Dems to fix the problems?

Bush pushed this on America, so why are you not asking why isn't the Reps plan so solve this?

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: alchemize
I ask YET again, how will the Dems "finish the job".

So you're still trying to blame others for not having an instant fix for a world broken by the Bushwhackos? :roll:

There are no "good" options. We start by getting rid of the malevolent trash that put us in this mess and continues to stand in the way of even considering the best of the bad options they've left us.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: outriding

Originally posted by: alchemize

I ask again, how will the Dems "finish the job". And why can't they start that process now hmm?

Why is it up to the Dems to fix the problems?

Bush pushed this on America, so why are you not asking why isn't the Reps plan so solve this?

Well, the Democrats as a group have been railing for change. Naturally it stands to ask what those changes would be.

Frankly, considering that one person with an anti-Republican stance has said "I don't know" and the other is stuck in navel-gazing mode, I suspect this is another case of voting for somebody because they're not that guy. You should demand better.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: outriding

Originally posted by: alchemize

I ask again, how will the Dems "finish the job". And why can't they start that process now hmm?

Why is it up to the Dems to fix the problems?

Bush pushed this on America, so why are you not asking why isn't the Reps plan so solve this?

Different poster, same answer.

Dems can't introduce legislation? Dems think that minimum wage needs raising, they try to fix it and introduce legislation. Apparently Dems think that raising minimum wage is more important legislation to introduce than "finishing the job". At least if they introduced legislation and the repubs voted against it, then they would have proposed a plan.

Frankly, I think that if somebody complains about something, then they should have a solution. Otherwise they are just whining. This is just pre-election politics, nothing more.

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: outriding

Originally posted by: alchemize

I ask again, how will the Dems "finish the job". And why can't they start that process now hmm?

Why is it up to the Dems to fix the problems?

Bush pushed this on America, so why are you not asking why isn't the Reps plan so solve this?

Different poster, same answer.

Dems can't introduce legislation? Dems think that minimum wage needs raising, they try to fix it and introduce legislation. Apparently Dems think that raising minimum wage is more important legislation to introduce than "finishing the job". At least if they introduced legislation and the repubs voted against it, then they would have proposed a plan.

Frankly, I think that if somebody complains about something, then they should have a solution. Otherwise they are just whining. This is just pre-election politics, nothing more.

Kerry/Feingold.... Reid/Levin... remember those?

Not a single bill gets through committee with Republican approval... not a single bill gets to the floor without Frist's approval. How hard is that for people to understand?

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: alchemize
I ask YET again, how will the Dems "finish the job".

So you're still trying to blame others for not having an instant fix for a world broken by the Bushwhackos? :roll:

There are no "good" options. We start by getting rid of the malevolent trash that put us in this mess and continues to stand in the way of even considering the best of the bad options they've left us.

I said - you've marched them off to prison, had them executed, wiped their seed from the face of the earth. All the supreme court has died and been replaced with democrats...all conservative commentators have been taken to re-education camps...your wildest fantasies have come true.

Now I ask you again for the 3rd (and last) time. how will the Dems "finish the job"?
*cricket* *cricket*

 

[outriding]

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: outriding

Originally posted by: alchemize

I ask again, how will the Dems "finish the job". And why can't they start that process now hmm?

Why is it up to the Dems to fix the problems?

Bush pushed this on America, so why are you not asking why isn't the Reps plan so solve this?

Well, the Democrats as a group have been railing for change. Naturally it stands to ask what those changes would be.

Frankly, considering that one person with an anti-Republican stance has said "I don't know" and the other is stuck in navel-gazing mode, I suspect this is another case of voting for somebody because they're not that guy. You should demand better.

Since the Reps are in charge shouldn't it be them who start the change machine in progress?

Clinton knew the problems with Bin Laden et al and he opted not to start a full scale war. Did you ever think he did not start a war without a good exit plan. It is the people who pushed this war onto us to give us an exit plan. Don't give "Well the Dems have nothing" crap. It is Bush's JOB to have a exit plan before we put American troops in harms way.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: outriding

Originally posted by: alchemize

I ask again, how will the Dems "finish the job". And why can't they start that process now hmm?

Why is it up to the Dems to fix the problems?

Bush pushed this on America, so why are you not asking why isn't the Reps plan so solve this?

Different poster, same answer.

Dems can't introduce legislation? Dems think that minimum wage needs raising, they try to fix it and introduce legislation. Apparently Dems think that raising minimum wage is more important legislation to introduce than "finishing the job". At least if they introduced legislation and the repubs voted against it, then they would have proposed a plan.

Frankly, I think that if somebody complains about something, then they should have a solution. Otherwise they are just whining. This is just pre-election politics, nothing more.

Kerry/Feingold.... Reid/Levin... remember those?

Not a single bill gets through committee with Republican approval... not a single bill gets to the floor without Frist's approval. How hard is that for people to understand?

Oh - in that case why even bother showing up for work? Give me a break...if the Dems wanted a plan it to be voted on, it would be. A good plan would probably have lots of bi-partisan support.

Again, the answer is, the dems don't introduce a "finish the job" legislation, because they have no workable plan. Neither side does. The dems are perfectly happy with the status quo. This is a competely moot point, it's nothing but pre-election whining about the past.

 

[outriding]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: outriding

Originally posted by: alchemize

I ask again, how will the Dems "finish the job". And why can't they start that process now hmm?

Why is it up to the Dems to fix the problems?

Bush pushed this on America, so why are you not asking why isn't the Reps plan so solve this?

Different poster, same answer.

Dems can't introduce legislation? Dems think that minimum wage needs raising, they try to fix it and introduce legislation. Apparently Dems think that raising minimum wage is more important legislation to introduce than "finishing the job". At least if they introduced legislation and the repubs voted against it, then they would have proposed a plan.

Frankly, I think that if somebody complains about something, then they should have a solution. Otherwise they are just whining. This is just pre-election politics, nothing more.

Cliffs:

My beloved Republicans screwed America over but until the Dems come up with something that will get us out of this situation that the Reps put us in it the the Dems fault.

---

The Reps pushed this crap onto us. Why cannot they [Reps] come up with a good plan?

 

[Pens1566]

So what exactly is the republican plan to fix the republican error in afghanistan??? Gay marriage ban?

 

[outriding]

Originally posted by: Pens1566
So what exactly is the republican plan to fix the republican error in afghanistan??? Gay marriage ban?

I thought it was putting clothes on nude statues.

 

[chowderhead]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: alchemize
I ask YET again, how will the Dems "finish the job".

So you're still trying to blame others for not having an instant fix for a world broken by the Bushwhackos? :roll:

There are no "good" options. We start by getting rid of the malevolent trash that put us in this mess and continues to stand in the way of even considering the best of the bad options they've left us.

I said - you've marched them off to prison, had them executed, wiped their seed from the face of the earth. All the supreme court has died and been replaced with democrats...all conservative commentators have been taken to re-education camps...your wildest fantasies have come true.

Now I ask you again for the 3rd (and last) time. how will the Dems "finish the job"?
*cricket* *cricket*

People have responded with suggestions on finishing the job in Afghanistan. Just because they aren't the answers you are looking for doesn't mean none were offered. The Democrats are the out of power party. They hold little power since they control none of the branches of government. The president will be president for 2 more years. He is the commander in chief and he ultimately decides what his policy, strategies are for Afghanistan, etc. I will say that the Democrats have offered up plans and ideas but ultimately the blame or accolades go to the people in charge and that is the Republicans and this President.

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: outriding

Originally posted by: alchemize

I ask again, how will the Dems "finish the job". And why can't they start that process now hmm?

Why is it up to the Dems to fix the problems?

Bush pushed this on America, so why are you not asking why isn't the Reps plan so solve this?

Different poster, same answer.

Dems can't introduce legislation? Dems think that minimum wage needs raising, they try to fix it and introduce legislation. Apparently Dems think that raising minimum wage is more important legislation to introduce than "finishing the job". At least if they introduced legislation and the repubs voted against it, then they would have proposed a plan.

Frankly, I think that if somebody complains about something, then they should have a solution. Otherwise they are just whining. This is just pre-election politics, nothing more.

Actually, there have been a couple of proposals offered. The Repubs voted almost unanamously (all but Chaffee) to defeat them. The Repubs did, however, put to vote a completely political POS bill calling for immediate withdrawal knowing that no one, D or R, could ever possibly vote for it. Sadly, three senators actually did.

Murtha's Proposal

Levin-Reed Proposal Iraq

Kerry proposal

The answers are there if you are truly looking. If there is a phased redeployment of troops out of Iraq (please don't read as a talking point "cut and run"...I'm talking a gradual withdrawl of troops at appropriate times) forcing the Iraqis off of the American military's teet, there would be enough troops, equipment and resources to go back into Afghanistan and squash the recent Taliban uprising in the southern part of the country.

You would then be able to getting two symbolic victories. One in Iraq where the government has shown that it has a stronghold amongst the population and is ready to take their democratic process into their own hands. The other would be allocating enough troops to smoke out OBL and bring him to justice.

 

[Pens1566]

You're wrong chowderhead, its all Clinton's fault.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: alchemize
Now I ask you again for the 3rd (and last) time. how will the Dems "finish the job"?
*cricket* *cricket*

The sad answer remains the same. The Bushwhackos have left us no good options, just a lot of ugly ones, but the fact remains that they haven't YET been sent off to their well deserved retreat to the Guantanamo Hilton so that remains the first priority.

Regardless of what comes after that, the only fact that's patently clear is, we can't trust the same criminal assholes who got us here to lead us out of the mess they created. :|