News Joe Biden does not know what decade it is and what party's he's in. Opposes Federal Funding of abortions.

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Bitek

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2001
7,380
572
136
#76
This debate is rather academic, and overall useless unless Ds win WH, Senate and agree to pack the courts to offset the stolen seats.

Who has vowed to pack courts? Warren, Biden? I just know Booti did.

Aim for that and don't get caught up in extremist debates.

Trying to fight a pro-abortion crusade is a loser. Let the Rs hang themselves with their pro-rape & incest policies and Ds stay reasonable.

Safe, legal (with some restrictions) and rare is the majority view.

Get control of the court and this goes away
 
May 28, 2007
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#77

Paladin3

Diamond Member
Mar 5, 2004
4,182
238
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#78
Nobody "likes" abortion, but we need it to remain freely available. The problem is too many idiots use it as their primary form of birth control. And too many opposed to it go on a crusade to end it when they don't actually give a shit about those unwanted children after they are born.

Children having children they aren't ready for is one of the big problem any society has to deal with. Defunding or banning abortion and telling women to cross their legs is not a realistic answer. Biden can be against federal funding of abortion, but anyone who really wants to see fewer abortions performed better be ready to fund the crap out of realistic alternatives.

We need more sex ed with a greater emphasis on birth control and reproductive responsibility. And the idea of abstinence only sex ed needs to be violently kicked to the curb. The penalty for too much unprotected sex is felt by all of society, so fuck your religious feels.

And even then, abortion still needs to remain available, funded and offered to women who need them without any stigma attached. We simply help more young men and women learn how to avoid needing one.

EDIT: I'm neither Dem nor Republican nor a member of any political party. I've always felt the Dems were generally more reasonable than the Republicans by a fair stretch. Let the Republicans go on anti-abortion crusades to appease their religious idiot base, but the Democrats shouldn't let themselves be pulled down into this fight so long as the federal courts continue to uphold Roe v. Wade.

Democrats and every other reasonable person should absolutely stand against this anti-abortion march backwards, but at the same time not let the Republicans mire us in this debate. As someone else said, win the courts and this is a moot point.
 
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Jun 30, 2003
25,631
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#79
Nobody "likes" abortion, but we need it to remain freely available. The problem is too many idiots use it as their primary form of birth control. And too many opposed to it go on a crusade to end it when they don't actually give a shit about those unwanted children after they are born.

Children having children they aren't ready for is one of the big problem any society has to deal with. Defunding or banning abortion and telling women to cross their legs is not a realistic answer. Biden can be against federal funding of abortion, but anyone who really wants to see fewer abortions performed better be ready to fund the crap out of realistic alternatives.

We need more sex ed with a greater emphasis on birth control and reproductive responsibility. And the idea of abstinence only sex ed needs to be violently kicked to the curb. The penalty for too much unprotected sex is felt by all of society, so fuck your religious feels.

And even then, abortion still needs to remain available, funded and offered to women who need them without any stigma attached. We simply help more young men and women learn how to avoid needing one.


qfmft. proper education about sex, contraceptives, and easy access to the latter would dranatically reduce the number of abortions. but somehow that argument fails to stick with lots of religious folks :hmm:
 
Feb 23, 2005
17,489
383
106
#82
This debate is rather academic, and overall useless unless Ds win WH, Senate and agree to pack the courts to offset the stolen seats.

Who has vowed to pack courts? Warren, Biden? I just know Booti did.

Aim for that and don't get caught up in extremist debates.

Trying to fight a pro-abortion crusade is a loser. Let the Rs hang themselves with their pro-rape & incest policies and Ds stay reasonable.

Safe, legal (with some restrictions) and rare is the majority view.

Get control of the court and this goes away
"stolen seats"


hahahahahahahaha
 
Jan 28, 2002
13,858
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#83
I do.

I don't think anything is lost in the process, but a lot is gained for the women involved.

Not sure if serious.

Ask *any* woman, then get back to us.
 

drifter106

Golden Member
Mar 14, 2004
1,212
323
91
#84
Poor Joe....He can't remember what he is busy copying from somebody else and what he has made up on his own. He can't remember his own positions. He would like to be in the center and his party won't let him.
 
Jul 11, 2001
21,665
282
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#87
I know, Biden is a totally shitheat. More Republican than many republicans only a few years ago! Supported bombing more people, harder drug war, unfortunate (?) racism, creepy AF? Sounds like a perfect republican to me!
Right now I would take a perfect republican over a spoiled brat megalomaniac.
 
Feb 24, 2009
10,045
507
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#88
The only time he will get my vote is if he's the Dem nominee. I hate enevitablity. That why we ended up with Hillary last time and it's still the same old pool of "reliable democrats" wake me up when it's time to vote.
 

Bitek

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2001
7,380
572
136
#89
Nobody "likes" abortion, but we need it to remain freely available. The problem is too many idiots use it as their primary form of birth control. And too many opposed to it go on a crusade to end it when they don't actually give a shit about those unwanted children after they are born.

Children having children they aren't ready for is one of the big problem any society has to deal with. Defunding or banning abortion and telling women to cross their legs is not a realistic answer. Biden can be against federal funding of abortion, but anyone who really wants to see fewer abortions performed better be ready to fund the crap out of realistic alternatives.

We need more sex ed with a greater emphasis on birth control and reproductive responsibility. And the idea of abstinence only sex ed needs to be violently kicked to the curb. The penalty for too much unprotected sex is felt by all of society, so fuck your religious feels.

And even then, abortion still needs to remain available, funded and offered to women who need them without any stigma attached. We simply help more young men and women learn how to avoid needing one.

EDIT: I'm neither Dem nor Republican nor a member of any political party. I've always felt the Dems were generally more reasonable than the Republicans by a fair stretch. Let the Republicans go on anti-abortion crusades to appease their religious idiot base, but the Democrats shouldn't let themselves be pulled down into this fight so long as the federal courts continue to uphold Roe v. Wade.

Democrats and every other reasonable person should absolutely stand against this anti-abortion march backwards, but at the same time not let the Republicans mire us in this debate. As someone else said, win the courts and this is a moot point.
qfmft. proper education about sex, contraceptives, and easy access to the latter would dranatically reduce the number of abortions. but somehow that argument fails to stick with lots of religious folks :hmm:
I don't know the % of abortions that are due to careless birth control. I'd like to think the best of women, and overall it's an exceedingly rare choice.

Otoh, from personal experience, I know of two women that considered abortion because of dumb BC methods (basically lack there of) and this was plan B.

One was an in-law, and a far left hippy dippy type (yoga teacher, vegan, women's college degree, occasional lesbian, the whole 9 yards...)

She came up with some bullshit rhythm method where she took the temperature of her hooha to track ovulation.

Convinced my family member of the viability of this system, whom she just started dating, and went unprotected. Mind you he's actually an accomplished biological scientist, more than well educated on the matter, but for some reason agreed. P***y has a powerful and idiotic effect on some people...

Well... It worked about as well as you would expect and within the first month she was pregnant. Fing hell.

So now they've been dating for weeks and now they were contemplating getting married or her having an abortion. Being the standup, but foolish, family man type, he pushed for marriage and they kept the kid (and added a few more.)

Of course the marriage was based on BS, she eventually left him for a woman as she wanted to go back to being a lesbian... But that's a whole other story.

Regardless, if they had the abortion I'd have one less member of my family, for no good reason other than stupidity.

Hard to see the kid and know how close he came to being wiped out. He doesn't know and hope he never does.

Abortion is a nasty business, but overall I choose to trust women to make their own decisions and know there are lots of gut wrenching stories out there I'm glad I never needed to face.

However I am not naive in knowing some abortions are the result of irresponsibility of adults, and why some see the issue in such a light. I could never respect that woman afterwards, and she only considered but never went through with it.
 
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Maxima1

Platinum Member
Jan 15, 2013
2,279
110
126
#90
I don't know the % of abortions that are due to careless birth control. I'd like to think the best of women, and overall it's an exceedingly rare choice.
[snip]
What is there to care about? There is no person there when they get an abortion.
 
May 28, 2007
14,840
304
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#91
I don't know the % of abortions that are due to careless birth control. I'd like to think the best of women, and overall it's an exceedingly rare choice.

Otoh, from personal experience, I know of two women that considered abortion because of dumb BC methods (basically lack there of) and this was plan B.

One was an in-law, and a far left hippy dippy type (yoga teacher, vegan, women's college degree, part time lesbian, the whole 9 yards...)

She came up with some bullshit rhythm method where she took the temperature of her hooha to track ovulation.

Convinced my family member of the viability of this system, whom she just started dating, and went unprotected. Mind you he's actually an accomplished biological scientist, more than well educated on the matter, but for some reason agreed. P***y has a powerful and idiotic effect on some people...

Well... It worked about as well as you would expect and within the first month she was pregnant. Fing hell.

So now they've been dating for weeks and now they were contemplating getting married or her having an abortion. Being the standup, but foolish, family man type, they got married and kept the kid (and added a few more.)

Of course the marriage was based on BS, she eventually left him for a woman as she wanted to go back to being a lesbian... But that's a whole other story.

Regardless, if they had the abortion I'd have one less member of my family, for no good reason other than stupidity.

Hard to see the kid and know how close he came to being wiped out. He doesn't know and hope he never does.

Abortion is a nasty business, but overall I choose to trust women to make their own decisions and know there are lots of gut wrenching stories out there I'm glad I never needed to face.

However I am not naive in knowing some abortions are the result of irresponsibility of adults, and why some see the issue in such a light. I know I could never respect that woman afterwards, and she only considered but never went through with it.
Good lord, you have some absolutely pathological attitudes.
 

Bitek

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2001
7,380
572
136
#93
What is there to care about? There is no person there when they get an abortion.
It's a gross oversimplification.

They are an acorn and not a tree, but the simple fact is my family member wouldn't be alive today had his mother went though with her abortion, which she was very close to having.

No birth defects, no incest, no teen Mom stuff, no threat to health. Parents just decided condoms were too much trouble during their "we just started dating" fuck fest.

In the end they started a life, and nearly ended it because of carelessness.

Overall point being, that abortion issues are not always just sob stories of birth defects, rape etc.

If you don't get that, if Ds don't get that, then they won't be able to appreciate the other side, and risk losing the "don't approve of abortion, but don't want it illegal either" voters, of which there are significant numbers in the D party and the rest of the country.

The Rs are setting up a trap to make the Ds look pro-abortion and sound like they treat a fetus's life causally or dismissively and offend and lose otherwise like-minded people.

They've taken an extremist position with the recent bills, but talk like calling in-utero babies parasites is also extreme and counterproductive.

It's a bad issue, and Ds need to take a different approach.
 
Jan 28, 2002
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#94
Have done. Not all women have the ingrained regret that society pushes so stupidly hard.

That was not the issue; you spoke of "a lot is gained".

Please explain what it is you seem to think a woman "gains" and kindly tell us all exactly what you "like" about abortions.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
64,165
847
126
#95
Now you have something to point to that calls in to question if his position is more political than moral, but you didn’t before. And we still can’t know for sure why he changed his mind. It can still be that time and changing conditions caused a revision of an older moral position. You are free to have your own opinion but you can’t claim certainty or pretend you can.
 
Jun 26, 2009
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#96
That was not the issue; you spoke of "a lot is gained".

Please explain what it is you seem to think a woman "gains" and kindly tell us all exactly what you "like" about abortions.
Yeah, you seem open to this discussion. This seems like a great use of my time.

Also, why do you give a shit? You worried I'm going to abort some fetuses you know?
 
Jan 28, 2002
13,858
263
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#97
Yeah, you seem open to this discussion. This seems like a great use of my time.

Also, why do you give a shit? You worried I'm going to abort some fetuses you know?

Nope, just wondering if you could explain what it is you seem to think a woman "gains" and kindly tell us all exactly what you "like" about abortions.
 
Jun 26, 2009
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#98
Nope, just wondering if you could explain what it is you seem to think a woman "gains" and kindly tell us all exactly what you "like" about abortions.
The gains are personal freedom. Most women in need of abortions are poor and unprepared for the burdens of parenthood. By dealing with an unwanted pregnancy, they can at least prevent being further screwed by the systems in place and potentially climb out of poverty.

What I like about them are that people who can't handle being a parent in whatever way they know aren't forced to become one.

This is leaving out all the medical necessity of the practice for the many instances where a fetus isn't viable or pregnancy would greatly endanger the life of the woman.

How many reasons do I need to like it? It's healthcare and it's none of my damn business. None of yours either.
 

Paladin3

Diamond Member
Mar 5, 2004
4,182
238
126
#99
The gains are personal freedom. Most women in need of abortions are poor and unprepared for the burdens of parenthood. By dealing with an unwanted pregnancy, they can at least prevent being further screwed by the systems in place and potentially climb out of poverty.

What I like about them are that people who can't handle being a parent in whatever way they know aren't forced to become one.

This is leaving out all the medical necessity of the practice for the many instances where a fetus isn't viable or pregnancy would greatly endanger the life of the woman.

How many reasons do I need to like it? It's healthcare and it's none of my damn business. None of yours either.
While I agree with much of what you said, I don't think there are many women who wouldn't carry the emotional scar of having to resort to an abortion. And I don't believe it's the system screwing single mothers so much as it is their own lack of planing and failure to use readily available birth control to avoid having children before they are ready.

If anyone, man or woman, is set enough against being a parent that they would abort their fetus, I would hope they would be using a condom as a preventative measure to begin with. And to expect the taxpayers to then pay for your abortion when it is only necessary because of your lack of responsibility is hypocritical at best. Even if it is ultimately in society's best interests to do so.

These rights and personal freedom you speak of do come with a certain amount of personal responsibility to society.
 
Jun 26, 2009
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While I agree with much of what you said, I don't think there are many women who wouldn't carry the emotional scar of having to resort to an abortion.
What are you basing this on? Because it sounds like some morality you've been subsumed by. This talk of responsibility, as though getting an abortion is some irresponsible choice... what the fuck?

Birth control can fail, people can find themselves otherwise blind-sided by life events. No one should feel shame about ending a pregnancy for any reason.

Just stop it.
 

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