Job Search - Did I Mess Up?

[dmw16]

Ok, so 2 weeks ago I applied for a job and spoke with the recruiter. She asked me what my salary expectation was and I told her and she didn't really respond.

Then they setup a phone interview with the program manager and that went very well and they asked me to come in for an interview. Once I looked into the area I found it might be hard for my fiance to keep her job (that she loves) so I declined the interview. The program manager called me back a day later and left his personal number and asked me to call so we could chat. They expressed interest and asked if I would come in for an informal visit (tour and lunch). I went and I liked them and they seemed to like me.

So today I scheduled a real interview but also asked what the salary range was or if my salary request was within the range they were offering for the position. Was it wrong of me to ask? I wanted to get an idea before I took a day off and spent 6 hours interviewing. Just wanted to get a feel from people if I should have just been quiet about the money.

 

[D1gger]

It does make you seem a little mercenary to ask that question before you have even started the interview, but it wouldn't be a deal breaker if you were interviewing with me.

 

[dmw16]

Ok. Well they came after me after I declined the interview, so I figured they were interested enough that I could at least ask the question, and all I wanted to know was a range, not what they would offer me personally.

On top of that, the interview requires that I give a 15min technical presentation and between 55 hours a week at work and grad school starting back up, I don't have tons of free time. So I didn't want to invest tons of time if they were going to offer me $500 more than I make now.

 

[Pugnax]

It's a legitimate question. If the salary is not competitive for you, it's a waste of your time and their's.

 

[Robert Munch]

i don't see a problem with asking up front, why bother wasting time with a tour and various interviews if a salary range from them isn't even mentioned. I find it a problem after going through vigourous interviews and then finally they offer a low balll offer for a salary. I always ask up front via e-mails/phone.

 

[dmw16]

Well they answered to confirm my salary expectation and said the offer would be based on experience and education as well as the interview and they would then make a "fair" offer. It dodges the question a little bit, but I hope they wouldn't waste my time when they know what I expect. I am willing to give the time because I am interested in the position, but still...

 

[Robert Munch]

Originally posted by: dmw16
Well they answered to confirm my salary expectation and said the offer would be based on experience and education as well as the interview and they would then make a "fair" offer. It dodges the question a little bit, but I hope they wouldn't waste my time when they know what I expect. I am willing to give the time because I am interested in the position, but still...

if they can't even come up with an answer, then maybe your just a timefiller for them until they can find the cheapest candidate. I would jump ship if they can't even answer an honest question.

 

[MmmSkyscraper]

I wouldn't interview for any job if the salary wasn't specified beforehand.

 

[dmw16]

Originally posted by: tehdispenser

Originally posted by: dmw16
Well they answered to confirm my salary expectation and said the offer would be based on experience and education as well as the interview and they would then make a "fair" offer. It dodges the question a little bit, but I hope they wouldn't waste my time when they know what I expect. I am willing to give the time because I am interested in the position, but still...

if they can't even come up with an answer, then maybe your just a timefiller for them until they can find the cheapest candidate. I would jump ship if they can't even answer an honest question.

Is there some graceful way to say that. They took the time to have me down, take me to lunch, show me around, etc. So I assume they have some interest. But yes, I agree the range should be specified. I understand a specific salary depends on a lot of factors. I don't know...

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: MmmSkyscraper
I wouldn't interview for any job if the salary wasn't specified beforehand.

Agreed. They should have least given up some type of range. If not then why hide it unless it is really low. If it was high they post it every where and get people.

 

[Robert Munch]

Originally posted by: dmw16

Originally posted by: tehdispenser

Originally posted by: dmw16
Well they answered to confirm my salary expectation and said the offer would be based on experience and education as well as the interview and they would then make a "fair" offer. It dodges the question a little bit, but I hope they wouldn't waste my time when they know what I expect. I am willing to give the time because I am interested in the position, but still...

if they can't even come up with an answer, then maybe your just a timefiller for them until they can find the cheapest candidate. I would jump ship if they can't even answer an honest question.

Is there some graceful way to say that. They took the time to have me down, take me to lunch, show me around, etc. So I assume they have some interest. But yes, I agree the range should be specified. I understand a specific salary depends on a lot of factors. I don't know...

the only graceful word that comes to mind is "bold"

 

[spidey07]

Don't worry about it. Part of the game is to get them to REALLY want you. Then allow them to make an offer and negotiate from there. You shouldn't even care about the salary at this point as your really trying to make THEM convince you that you should work for them. There can be HUGE room for negotiation and compensation so specifying a range just doesn't make any sense for the employer or the employee.

Only you know what you're really worth. Their answer is a standard one, the exact same if anybody asks for your salary requirements - "competitive offer based on experience, positions, yada-blah". It's all just one big game and if you learn how to play it you can increase your salary and career greatly.

 

[dmw16]

I made the rookie mistake of naming a number that is my expectation. This is my first job negotiation (my first real job I got after being an intern at the company where I am now, so it was less formal). I did ask for 20% over my current salary, but I know I goofed a little bit.

 

[altonb1]

Originally posted by: spidey07
Don't worry about it. Part of the game is to get them to REALLY want you. Then allow them to make an offer and negotiate from there. You shouldn't even care about the salary at this point as your really trying to make THEM convince you that you should work for them. There can be HUGE room for negotiation and compensation so specifying a range just doesn't make any sense for the employer or the employee.

Only you know what you're really worth. Their answer is a standard one, the exact same if anybody asks for your salary requirements - "competitive offer based on experience, positions, yada-blah". It's all just one big game and if you learn how to play it you can increase your salary and career greatly.

This is very true, but I have found that there are quite a few employers out there that want to offer laughable salaries when compared to the requested skills. I had a recruiter call me one day about a position--they wanted A+/Net+, MCSE or equal experience, etc. It all sounded good until i finally got them to admit they were willing to pay $10/hr. I confirmed that I didn't misunderstand and then politely declined and quickly ended the call.

 

[Descartes]

Sounds like you did ok. I agree with Spidey's sentiments on the matter. The better you play this aspect of the game, the more you'll ultimately make. I've seen people make less than 50% of their peers for no other reason than the fact that their negotiations are timid.

Emphasizing what Spidey said, you really need to know what you're worth. Using past salary is a reasonable guide in some cases, but only if you weren't seriously undervaluing yourself. Base your worth on the market and your position relative to that market, not based on past salary*

*Unless your past salary was actually priced accurately (in this case it appears it wasn't)

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: altonb1

Originally posted by: spidey07
Don't worry about it. Part of the game is to get them to REALLY want you. Then allow them to make an offer and negotiate from there. You shouldn't even care about the salary at this point as your really trying to make THEM convince you that you should work for them. There can be HUGE room for negotiation and compensation so specifying a range just doesn't make any sense for the employer or the employee.

Only you know what you're really worth. Their answer is a standard one, the exact same if anybody asks for your salary requirements - "competitive offer based on experience, positions, yada-blah". It's all just one big game and if you learn how to play it you can increase your salary and career greatly.

This is very true, but I have found that there are quite a few employers out there that want to offer laughable salaries when compared to the requested skills. I had a recruiter call me one day about a position--they wanted A+/Net+, MCSE or equal experience, etc. It all sounded good until i finally got them to admit they were willing to pay $10/hr. I confirmed that I didn't misunderstand and then politely declined and quickly ended the call.

$10/hr?!@# That's a new limit. That might go beyond the threshold of even politely declining. If they're offering some ridiculous terms, then it's quite clear they have no sense of reality in the marketplace they're selling.

Also, recruiters are traditionally horrible. We employ a few recruiter consultants for our opportunities, and it's one of the points we make before we go any further. People are paid fairly based on current market conditions and not some silly back-and-forth trying to squeeze out a few dollars. Most recruiters are looking for 100% margin on resources, although admittedly some smaller firms will reduce that to as little as 15% in some cases.

Personally, I'd adopt a simple approach to dealing with recruiters. Tell them you're rate and just leave it at that. They'll play games, but unless your rate is ridiculous, they're willing to pay it to fill the position.

 

[dmw16]

Originally posted by: Descartes
Sounds like you did ok. I agree with Spidey's sentiments on the matter. The better you play this aspect of the game, the more you'll ultimately make. I've seen people make less than 50% of their peers for no other reason than the fact that their negotiations are timid.

Emphasizing what Spidey said, you really need to know what you're worth. Using past salary is a reasonable guide in some cases, but only if you weren't seriously undervaluing yourself. Base your worth on the market and your position relative to that market, not based on past salary*

*Unless your past salary was actually priced accurately (in this case it appears it wasn't)

It isn't that I am terribly under paid in the current position, but I can always stand to do better. I "negotiated" my current salary fresh out of school. Not I am part way thru a masters program and they are talking about putting me into a program management type role so I think a near 20% bump is fair.

 

[Connoisseur]

Originally posted by: dmw16
I made the rookie mistake of naming a number that is my expectation. This is my first job negotiation (my first real job I got after being an intern at the company where I am now, so it was less formal). I did ask for 20% over my current salary, but I know I goofed a little bit.

Don't sweat it. I think the majority of people make that mistake for their first real job (i certainly did). You live and you learn. Unless the presentation takes an exorbitant amount of time to prepare or you have other jobs lined up, I suggest making the interview. It's always good to have a safety net in case other plans don't pan out. I'm assuming you're coming out of college? It's better to have SOME job than to have nothing lined up.

 

[dmw16]

No, I currently have a real job. I graduated 2 years ago and I am now back in college getting my Master's Degree. So I have a real job now that pays the bills and affords me a nice lifestyle. However, it is a very expensive area. I am looking to relocate about 50 miles where I can get the same type of townhouse/condo for nearly $100k less and find a job that I can see myself building a career at for a while.

It has less to do with the presentation and more to do with the stress of going thru it and the fact that we are on a tight schedule in my current job and a day I am out of work is a day I am farther behind.