Job advice: got two offers this week

[ShawnD1]

#1

youth is wasted on the young. take advantage of it while you can. go on fun vacations. meet and hangout with young, like-minded people. enjoy!

This makes absolutely no sense. It's not like you hang out with people from work outside of work. You can't get falling down drunk around them, share anything personal, be friends with them, or anything. They might be friendly, but make no mistake. They are still potential enemies and any dirt they get on you can be used against you.

Is the 5-9k a large portion of your salary or not.

This. The difference between 20k and 30k is huge, but 100k vs 110k is nothing.


I had a 45 minute drive to work for about 6 months and I really liked the drive. I was energized and awake by the time I got to work because it was 80mph driving most of the way. The drive home was nice too. If I had to drive for 45 minutes in gridlock traffic, I think I'd rather die.

I currently work at a place similar to #2. It's a fairly new branch of a company that has been around for a while. The office in this city had about 8 employees when I started. Only 1 of the other employees was under 50.
I see the age difference as a good thing because that means it's a great place to work. Old people have more experience and don't need to put up with bullshit. If the pay sucks, they're gone. If the benefits suck, they're gone. If the boss sucks, they're gone.

The age thing is true for almost any field. Look at jobs that suck at look at the age of the people working there. More old people means the job is probably better.
McDonalds - mostly teens and immigrants
Retail - nobody over 30 years old
High paying trades - all ages
Good engineering office - all ages
Good law firm - all ages

 

[Saint Nick]

Pick #1. I am the youngest person in IT :| ... The second youngest is an awkward foreign guy.

 

[the DRIZZLE]

People here are focusing too much on the commute. I hate the time loss from a long commute as much as anyone but that's something to worry about when you are at a more stable point in your life. The OP is young and will likely move several times over the next 10 years anyway.

 

[ViviTheMage]

uno

 

[Exterous]

People here are focusing too much on the commute. I hate the time loss from a long commute as much as anyone but that's something to worry about when you are at a more stable point in your life. The OP is young and will likely move several times over the next 10 years anyway.

It should still be a consideration. I am not the most relaxed driver so my rush hour commute is very wearing - esp when it rains and god help me if it snows

Basically my recommendation for your first job out of college is take whatever one sets you up for the best opportunities down the road

 

[Imp]

#1

I work at something like #2. The next youngest person in my office is about twice my age. Many are close to retirement and just phone it in, or they have no patience to train me, then I hear them talking about how the young'uns (other departments) are inexperienced and don't know how to do shit.

On the flip side, young people are hit and miss though. They may be cliquey pricks, or you may get along great, and people do do stuff outside the office (if you're part of the "in" crowd). But work-wise, younger people are generally more "with it" and willing to embrace new technology. I'm not talking about Facebook et al shit either, basic stuff like using Powerpoint + projector versus photocopying 20 sets of B&W photos that get used for 5 minutes in a meeting, then trashed...

Also, 10 minute commute by car = chance you may walk/bike/transit it. My commute is about 2 hours daily - FML.

 

[ShawnD1]

#1

I work at something like #2. The next youngest person in my office is about twice my age. Many are close to retirement and just phone it in, or they have no patience to train me, then I hear them talking about how the young'uns (other departments) are inexperienced and don't know how to do shit.

God damn that sucks. The old people in my office are a lot better. They seem to enjoy explaining things and sharing knowledge. I wouldn't be able to work with jaded old people. It's too stressful.

On the flip side, young people are hit and miss though. They may be cliquey pricks, or you may get along great, and people do do stuff outside the office (if you're part of the "in" crowd). But work-wise, younger people are generally more "with it" and willing to embrace new technology. I'm not talking about Facebook et al shit either, basic stuff like using Powerpoint + projector versus photocopying 20 sets of B&W photos that get used for 5 minutes in a meeting, then trashed...

I think most old people are pretty good with computers. The person around here who is a pro with computers and Microstation is probably about 50 years old. The guy who was excited to tell us all the features of his new iPhone is post-retirement; he usually works from home and we don't see him very often.

If there's someone who absolutely does not understand computers, then yeah it's probably an old person, but most of them can at least understand basic tech stuff.

 

[Imp]

God damn that sucks. The old people in my office are a lot better. They seem to enjoy explaining things and sharing knowledge. I wouldn't be able to work with jaded old people. It's too stressful.

I think most old people are pretty good with computers. The person around here who is a pro with computers and Microstation is probably about 50 years old. The guy who was excited to tell us all the features of his new iPhone is post-retirement; he usually works from home and we don't see him very often.

If there's someone who absolutely does not understand computers, then yeah it's probably an old person, but most of them can at least understand basic tech stuff.

Maybe I'm a bit overly jaded on older people since many I've worked with are on the extreme end of "old" (at/near retirement)... My supervisor has a few days left, and he just totally doesn't care: he comes in late, leaves early, naps, etc. My other neighbour, also retiring, is in his seat about 2 hours every few days, usually phoning people about kijiji ads... The non-retiring folk are mostly jaded and show up to collect a paycheck.

It's not so much that they don't know computers (they have iPhones, use computers reasonably well), it's that stuck on the old ways and rigid in thinking because that's what they've used/done and relied on with confidence for so long. They're also from the pre-"green" era and have no concept of waste. I have about 1000 pages of printouts, some in color that they made for me or me for them, that I either never used, or used for 5 mins then trashed. Like f*ck, do you not know that the toner costs $200+ per color?

 

[ShawnD1]

Maybe I'm a bit overly jaded on older people since many I've worked with are on the extreme end of "old" (at/near retirement)... My supervisor has a few days left, and he just totally doesn't care: he comes in late, leaves early, naps, etc. My other neighbour, also retiring, is in his seat about 2 hours every few days, usually phoning people about kijiji ads... The non-retiring folk are mostly jaded and show up to collect a paycheck.

You gotta get out of there. Being around jaded people will make you jaded too.

It's not so much that they don't know computers (they have iPhones, use computers reasonably well), it's that stuck on the old ways and rigid in thinking because that's what they've used/done and relied on with confidence for so long. They're also from the pre-"green" era and have no concept of waste. I have about 1000 pages of printouts, some in color that they made for me or me for them, that I either never used, or used for 5 mins then trashed. Like f*ck, do you not know that the toner costs $200+ per color?

I tried being green until I realize it simply doesn't work. I can check it on the computer screen a million times and still miss things. There were also a few times where people would complain that I didn't change a drawing even though I did; the lack of a paper trail meant I had no argument. After that happened a couple times, I started keeping printed copies of everything I did and scanned copies of everything given to me. I write the date and notes on every paper that comes my way, then scan it, then print a copy of every page I changed. Anyone bitching about work not done gets paper thrown at them.

It also saves time to print things on paper. Some of these CAD drawings take a really damn long time to open because it references so many files. Keeping them open chews through memory and closing them chews time. Grrr!!
I'm starting to like working with paper more and more. Through grade school I would never write drafts in paper, but now I write everything on paper first then do it.

 

[lokiju]

Job 1.

Driving sucks and equals value and actual direct money as well.

I'd go with job 1 just for the time saved in driving the money saved on gas and car wear and tear is just icing on the cake IMO.

 

[BoberFett]

It's a first job, don't worry too much about the specifics. Consider the fact though that the longer commute you're not working 40 hour weeks, you're working 45 hours weeks. Recalculate the hourly rate that way and see if the pay bump is worth it.

 

[blackdogdeek]

This makes absolutely no sense. It's not like you hang out with people from work outside of work. You can't get falling down drunk around them, share anything personal, be friends with them, or anything.

um, i did and still do. i'm actually very close friends with some of them, have gone on vacations to whistler/blackcomb and cruises in the caribbean with them, gone to their weddings in Napa and London, and on many, many, many occasions gone out drinking really late and ended up at a restaurant in chinatown at 3 am with them. one time we got kicked out of espn zone. in fact, i just went out drinking with some co-workers last wednesday. we were supposed to go to karaoke but we got too drunk.

 

[ShawnD1]

I've never had a real job where I could do that.

That's probably what I miss most about shit jobs. They sucked but they were fun. It wasn't unusual for a coworker to say "come smoke a bowl with us" during lunch break. I didn't smoke, but I appreciate the offer. I also liked how it was socially acceptable to sleep with coworkers.

 

[HardcoreRobot]

#1, though if the positions are similar i might go back to them and say i have a similar offer for X more and see if they will bump you at all. regardless id take #1, cant overstate the suckiness of a long commute.

 

[blackdogdeek]

I've never had a real job where I could do that.

That's probably what I miss most about shit jobs. They sucked but they were fun. It wasn't unusual for a coworker to say "come smoke a bowl with us" during lunch break. I didn't smoke, but I appreciate the offer. I also liked how it was socially acceptable to sleep with coworkers.

there's something about investment banking that cultivates this culture. maybe it's the high-stress, high-risk, high-stakes environment that requires stress relief valves like regular visits to local watering holes and "other very classy establishments".

 

[Imp]

You gotta get out of there. Being around jaded people will make you jaded too.

I tried being green until I realize it simply doesn't work.

Oh, honey, it's too late already. I mentally checked out a year ago, but am working part-time on a masters to get me that leg up to leave; this is THE main reason I went for more school.

I've found that that's true too, but to a point. "Print Preview" and PDFs only go so far, and there are things that get missed without a physical copy. AutoCAD, especially doesn't always come out exactly the way they look on screen and paper is required so they can be marked up for change. In general, they make good back-ups, are easier to read/handle, easier to mark up, etc.

But within reason, I still think that certain things don't need printing. Most of the print-trash I was talking about did not need to be printed because they were unsolicited (didn't ask or need them), and no detailed review was needed and electronic copies were available to make these quick look-throughs (e.g. reviewing past site inspection pictures for a very general idea of what's wrong).

Edit: Want to add some more annoying waste examples. Someone had me plot a 4'x6' fully colored satellite map for one meeting, just so people could see the lanes on the roads. A laptop + projector with google.com or pre-printed ArcGIS maps loaded would have worked just as well - I've done it, it worked great. Another time, someone printed a batch of AutoCAD drawings I made (50-ish) with satellite overlay in full color, and she didn't touch them once because I had it on Powerpoint. Ok... threadjacking-rant complete.

 

[ShawnD1]

Another time, someone printed a batch of AutoCAD drawings I made (50-ish) with satellite overlay in full color, and she didn't touch them once because I had it on Powerpoint. Ok... threadjacking-rant complete.

Apparently it's full color that kills the printing budget. I once asked how much it was to print letter vs tabloid size paper. The printing cost is the same, but the larger paper was about 6% more expensive. Then they added that printing in color is 900% more expensive than printing black and white.
wasting paper = ok
wasting color = enormously expensive

(leased printers are charged per sheet; we don't directly pay for toner and things like that)

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

You already want #1, but are torn for the $5k. Why not counter offer #1 for $5k more?

Hell, if you get a $2K raise from #1, it's already a win in terms of time wasted. If you get the full $5K difference, you're waaaay ahead.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Either one looks fine.

I'm starting to notice a trend of folks getting jobs on here.

Looks like maybe Economy is starting an upswing :thumbsup:

Different sectors might be adding, some other have been adding for quite some time. I've looked at and turned down many opportunities. It just seems that in my field there are very few qualified people so there has been a shortage for quite a number of years now.

 

[Gibson486]

5k a year is close to 100 a week before tax. Is that worth it to you?

As much as a I hated my last job, I was lucky to have worked with old and young people. The majority of the people in my group were old, but the people in the other groups were young.

Working with older people is good career wise IF they have people who are willing to mentor you. If they are not willing, you are going to be miserable. I got a person to mentor me, but he changed depts later and my experience went to shit. by good mentor, I mean a person who hold you accountable, but understands you are still human and a noob.

Working with young people is awesome because you have more in common. However, it sucks when no one has the answer or the maturity to admit they are wrong. Then it turns into spinning wheels in the mud.

Also, a 45 minute commute only got old on the way home. On the way to work, i did not mind it, but when you are on your way home and you are stuck in traffic, it sucks.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

I thought this was a /firstworldproblems type of thread at first. And I guess it pretty much is.

 

[Rage187]

#1

45mins x 2 = 1.5 hours each day = 390 hours a year. Not worth $5k a year.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Decide if you want job security or to jump around jobs.

I'll give you a hint though. You are not going to like what you are doing in 10 years. Plan for advancement or things get repetitive and boring.

11 years in softwre and I am considering a move to management.

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

I thought this was a /firstworldproblems type of thread at first. And I guess it pretty much is.

How the heck is this a /firstworldproblem? OP is just considering two different job offers, which applies to schmoes in India or Pakistan too you know

 

[RossMAN]

It's a first job, don't worry too much about the specifics. Consider the fact though that the longer commute you're not working 40 hour weeks, you're working 45 hours weeks. Recalculate the hourly rate that way and see if the pay bump is worth it.

Words of wisdom, I completely agree.