Jimmy Carter to meet with the leader of Hamas??

[Kerouactivist]

I don't even know what to say other than "bullshit"
This thread is a mockery of dealing fairly and justly with people on so many levels.

and Carter is the bad guy.....

 

[mrSHEiK124]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
While I am almost 100% in agreement with mrSHEiK1214 who says---As a lawyer, when a case needs to be settled, I do not get to dictate who the other side's counsel will be - I deal with who they chose. The world needs to deal with that fact, not bitch and moan about it, or sit there fingers in ears going nyah, nyah, nyah.

The fallacy is that this is not a court of law with a judge bound to impartially uphold the law. And when we are dealing with the court of US public opinion, all these dubious tactics have been working quite well for the past 60 years. And if the USA is willing to prop Israel up militarily and economically, why should Israel act rationally?

Also good points. But those points in the first half of the post aren't mine, I was quoting (and agreeing with) BMW540I6speed. Credit where credit is due I guess

 

[seemingly random]

Carter has an agenda. Look at when he was in haiti monitoring their elections in the 90s. Why would anyone go there? There's no oil there.

 

[Kerouactivist]

Originally posted by: seemingly random
Carter has an agenda. Look at when he was in haiti monitoring their elections in the 90s. Why would anyone go there? There's no oil there.

Carter simply hates freedom and America...and wants the terrorists to win...didn't you watch hannity or limbaugh last week....u guys must be off your meds...

 

[Braznor]

nm

 

[Lemon law]

And by the way, this whole Carter thing has been a long time brewing. I remember about a year ago that Carter was doing some rethinking about the positions he took at Camp David and concluded he was somewhat too pro Israeli. And one of his pro Israeli ex aides then lambasted Carter, excommunicated Carter, while inflating himself in the process.

I fully expect we will see the US Israeli lobby turn its full ire onto Carter in the coming weeks and months while GWB's Pet Duck gets lamer and lamer. Stay tuned, all manners of revisionist history to follow. Dare we hope, that peanuts will be soon be outlawed from store shelves across the country. It almost worked for French fries.

 

[piasabird]

Under Carter's watch Iran had Marines held captives. We did not attack Iran then, because Carter had no guts. Carter is a coward.

 

[Moonbeam]

Jimmy Carter is a real Christian who lives his religion as best he can and walks in the footsteps of his Master to the degree that he is able, but I am sure that besides the light of God to guide his steps, he's very interested in all the opinions of the fucking ants posting here.

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: piasabird
Under Carter's watch Iran had Marines held captives. We did not attack Iran then, because Carter had no guts. Carter is a coward.

And if Carter had the guts what then? The American hostages would almost certainly had died,
we would have had an Iranian occupation, and the Russians would have probably have intervened in some way in the middle east leading to a possibly not so wondrous outcome.

The same could be said about the gutless GHB who did not invade Iraq after he had kicked Saddam out of Kuwait. We saw what happed later when the son of GWB proved he did not lack guts from the safety of Washington DC. And in the process of restored American honor, GWB won a quagmire instead.

As you might have the wit to see piasabird, sometimes its better to be called a coward than to be proved a fool. You can't ask that question of the 4000+ American dead or the hundreds of thousands of Iraq dead, because they can't give you an answer in this world, but you might look at all the very disabled living vets and ask yourself, was it worth it to see our President land on that air craft carrier and strut his stuff behind a mission accomplished banner.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: piasabird
Under Carter's watch Iran had Marines held captives. We did not attack Iran then, because Carter had no guts. Carter is a coward.

No, people who support bombing countries for no reason are cowards, you included.

Now go back to church and pray for some nukes to hit Iran, while the rest of us think things through, coward.

 

[Jaskalas]

Islamic cleric: We will conquer Rome, and then Eastern Europe and the Americas

As Jimmy Carter plans to meet with Hamas, this Hamas MP explains that it is an Islamic imperative to subjugate the world "thorough da'wa and military conquests."

As the EU President insists that there is no link between Islam and terrorism, this Islamic cleric explains that the conquests he dreams of are "Islamic," and that Muslims need to be prepared to carry out these conquests "by means of the mosques and the Koran books, and the history of our Prophets."

Has the world ever before witnessed cognitive dissonance on this grand a scale?

Click the link, watch the video, then remind me again the purpose of this meeting?

 

[Lemon law]

To Jaskalas,

I don't have to watch that video to know that Islamic cleric is an idiot. We have too many of our own also, look no further than Pat Robertson for starters.

Maybe we can agree on something, you can ignore the Islamic cleric and I will ignore our religious right plus that idiot cleric because they merely represent extreme views and are not mainstream views in either societies.

But now that its no longer fashionable to have a red under every bed, the paranoid always need something to be afraid of. Demonise one and thus demonise them all is the mantra of those whose mind is small.

 

[Moonbeam]

The Islamophobes in our midst are the same fascist pathogenic morons who brought us Hitler. It would be prudent to exterminate them early before they kill create the circumstances to kill more millions and millions or billions, this time. They are the real terrorists that can bring disaster, their squeaking fear and need to be protected from the monsters of their childhood trauma, no? Is it not moral to kill thousands of the demented to save millions of innocent lives?

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
To Jaskalas,

I don't have to watch that video to know that Islamic cleric is an idiot. We have too many of our own also, look no further than Pat Robertson for starters.

Maybe we can agree on something, you can ignore the Islamic cleric and I will ignore our religious right plus that idiot cleric because they merely represent extreme views and are not mainstream views in either societies.

But now that its no longer fashionable to have a red under every bed, the paranoid always need something to be afraid of. Demonise one and thus demonise them all is the mantra of those whose mind is small.

How many people has Pat Robertson killed? Has his militant group killed? Is it even militant?

I demonize the WAR. The violence that cleric and his ilk wage against western civilization. That bloodshed is what distinguishes them as something that needs to be dealt with no matter how many excuses and protective arguments you lay before them.

 

[Atreus21]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
So Jimmy Carter may visit with the leader of Hamas when he goes to Syria.

It is like the Democrats don't want to win in the fall.

Why this is a problem for Democrats.
It re-enforces the fact that Democrats aren't serious when it comes to fighting terrorism.

More importantly it will force Obama to either publicly criticize Carter or it will re-enforce the anti-Israeli problem that Obama already faces.

If Obama is seen as being anti-Israel it could cost the Democrats the Jewish vote and without the Jewish vote the Dems may have no chance when it comes to Florida (Where McCain already leads by 8 points)

Anyway... here the Chicagotribune's view on Carter
link

Former President Jimmy Carter is accustomed to meeting world leaders and beaming his famous smile while getting his photo snapped with them. He may be in for a different kind of visit in Damascus next week. Carter is reported to have scheduled a meeting with Khaled Mashaal, the political leader of Hamas. Hamas says he's coming; the Atlanta-based Carter Center didn't confirm that, the Associated Press reported Thursday.

Mashaal isn't fond of photo ops, or even appearing in public, ever since he survived an Israeli assassination attempt several years back. (And there was the time in 2006 when Israeli warplanes buzzed the presidential palace in Syria as a protest for allowing Mashaal a safe haven.)

We presume the former president knows all about Mashaal. Just in case, however, we'd like to remind him of the Hamas leader's résumé, the better to be prepared for the possible tete-a-tete.

Mashaal is a terrorist leader. He's accused by Israeli officials of ordering the 2006 abduction of an Israeli soldier, triggering Israel's incursion into Gaza. At the time, U.S. Ambassador to the UN John Bolton urged Syria to arrest him and shut down Hamas headquarters in Damascus.

Over the years, Mashaal has claimed responsibility for many of Hamas' suicide bomb attacks in Israel. He leads an organization that praised as "heroic" Palestinian terrorists who crossed into Israel and killed two civilians at a fuel depot on Wednesday. Hamas allows?or instigates?the continuing barrage of rockets into Israel, taking every opportunity to disrupt peace negotiations.

Mashaal could play an important role in the current peace talks if Hamas would renounce violence, embrace previous agreements with Israel and recognize the Jewish state. It's a very low bar to clear with a profound return?a Palestinian state. But it's still too high for Hamas, a group that is sworn to destroy Israel.

Carter hasn't said publicly why he may be going. Maybe the 2002 Nobel Peace Prize laureate is convinced he can turn Mashaal into a peacenik. He better talk fast: Hamas is undertaking the most significant military buildup in its history, according to recent reports.

Or maybe Carter can't resist a public and obvious rebuke to the Bush administration's policy of isolating and weakening Hamas.

Mashaal and his cronies are overseeing the descent of Gaza into further violence, misery and hopelessness, all because they can't envision a Middle East where Palestinians and Israelis can live side by side in peace.

Can a Nobel be revoked?

In general, the responses I've seen so far are what I'd expected: Sympathizing with terrorists, saying that Hamas is just one more victim of American Hostility, and that if not for Bush, Hamas would have been loved to death a long time ago.

Sad.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: Atreus21
In general, the responses I've seen so far are what I'd expected: Sympathizing with terrorists, saying that Hamas is just one more victim of American Hostility, and that if not for Bush, Hamas would have been loved to death a long time ago.
Sad.

You are a Magician of logic and intellect. /sarcasm

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Lemon law
To Jaskalas,

I don't have to watch that video to know that Islamic cleric is an idiot. We have too many of our own also, look no further than Pat Robertson for starters.

Maybe we can agree on something, you can ignore the Islamic cleric and I will ignore our religious right plus that idiot cleric because they merely represent extreme views and are not mainstream views in either societies.

But now that its no longer fashionable to have a red under every bed, the paranoid always need something to be afraid of. Demonise one and thus demonise them all is the mantra of those whose mind is small.

How many people has Pat Robertson killed? Has his militant group killed? Is it even militant?

I demonize the WAR. The violence that cleric and his ilk wage against western civilization. That bloodshed is what distinguishes them as something that needs to be dealt with no matter how many excuses and protective arguments you lay before them.

But you know as well as I do we can't just go after the blood-letters. We have to kill them all.

 

[Lemon law]

To Atreus21,

And it never occurs to you that Hamas is just a symptom of a larger disease called injustice. In this case something that could have gone either way with the creation of the State of Israel. That creation was noble in my mind and still is, but it also turned tragically wrong when Palestinians were disenfranchised in the land on their birth for the sins of merely being born Palestinian when Israel was supposed to fairly govern both. And by the way, also the classic definition of antisemitism since the Palestinians are also of the semitic race.

Now 60 years later all sides have all those original injustices unresolved, and daily build up more and more and more. And after 60 years Israeli military might has not resolved the question nor is it likely to in the next 60 years. Israel cheerfully uses violence to retain what it stole and Hamas and other groups use violence. Neither tactic seems to be working as we start year 61 of more of the same.

Maybe Mashaal will pay the price and die by violent means. Will it change anything if three others spring up to take his place? Is the life of an innocent Israeli housewife killed by Palestinian terrorists any more or less valuable than the same equivalent innocent Lebanese housewife also killed by Israeli indiscriminate bombing?

Well I hate to tell you, but this is not going to be settled ever until some of the original injustices are resolved. And that process starts by talking to ALL SIDES.

 

[OrByte]

what the HELL is so wrong with talking to Hamas?

I swear the hubris being displayed in this thread is assinine.

I think people are afraid that Carter will be successful.

pathetic.

 

[Atreus21]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
To Atreus21,

And it never occurs to you that Hamas is just a symptom of a larger disease called injustice. In this case something that could have gone either way with the creation of the State of Israel. That creation was noble in my mind and still is, but it also turned tragically wrong when Palestinians were disenfranchised in the land on their birth for the sins of merely being born Palestinian when Israel was supposed to fairly govern both. And by the way, also the classic definition of antisemitism since the Palestinians are also of the semitic race.

Now 60 years later all sides have all those original injustices unresolved, and daily build up more and more and more. And after 60 years Israeli military might has not resolved the question nor is it likely to in the next 60 years. Israel cheerfully uses violence to retain what it stole and Hamas and other groups use violence. Neither tactic seems to be working as we start year 61 of more of the same.

Maybe Mashaal will pay the price and die by violent means. Will it change anything if three others spring up to take his place? Is the life of an innocent Israeli housewife killed by Palestinian terrorists any more or less valuable than the same equivalent innocent Lebanese housewife also killed by Israeli indiscriminate bombing?

Well I hate to tell you, but this is not going to be settled ever until some of the original injustices are resolved. And that process starts by talking to ALL SIDES.

Israel has shown me before that they can at least attempt to reason with their enemies, and they were attacked as a result.

The fact that Hamas deliberately targets civilians eliminates them from being considered a rational side of this feud. If Hamas were engaged in a military conflict between two military forces, I'd consider their position in an impartial manner.

Once you resort to terrorism, you deserve nothing except to be treated as a terrorist. If I were armed, and I came across Osama Bin Laden on the street, I'd kill him on sight. We should adopt the same attitude.

 

[Lemon law]

The main Atreus21 illogic is here---Israel has shown me before that they can at least attempt to reason with their enemies, and they were attacked as a result.

Yes they have this charming way of reasoning---give us everything and we can agree. Otherwise we will not talk to you.

The only reason the peace conference in Annapolis has not collapsed already is that the arabs agreed to table the issue of Israel building on disputed lands. As they now try to tackle the issue of creating a Palestinian State on the moon while totally marginalizing Abbas in the process. And if Israel won't even deal with Abbas, its not rocket science to predict that
Abbas and Fatah will go the way of the dodo. And then Israel can only deal with the Hamas they are busily pretending does not exist.

That kind of reasoning has been reasonable for 60 long years if you only look at things from one end of the table.

 

[Atreus21]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
The main Atreus21 illogic is here---Israel has shown me before that they can at least attempt to reason with their enemies, and they were attacked as a result.

Yes they have this charming way of reasoning---give us everything and we can agree. Otherwise we will not talk to you.

The only reason the peace conference in Annapolis has not collapsed already is that the arabs agreed to table the issue of Israel building on disputed lands. As they now try to tackle the issue of creating a Palestinian State on the moon while totally marginalizing Abbas in the process. And if Israel won't even deal with Abbas, its not rocket science to predict that
Abbas and Fatah will go the way of the dodo. And then Israel can only deal with the Hamas they are busily pretending does not exist.

That kind of reasoning has been reasonable for 60 long years if you only look at things from one end of the table.

When Israel withdrew from the West Bank, it didn't present a good example of the "give us everything" line. The "give us everything" mentality is better suited to Hamas, who've failed consistently to take the conciliatory tone you say that Israel should take.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Atreus21
Once you resort to terrorism, you deserve nothing except to be treated as a terrorist. If I were armed, and I came across Osama Bin Laden on the street, I'd kill him on sight. We should adopt the same attitude.

That's the entire problem. The left, as proven here at P&N, wants the war waged against us to be a single sided war in which we absorb all the damage and dole nothing out in return. That is the intent of Carter's trip. To discern the demands of the terrorists so that the left can form a game plan on how to best enact those demands.

All the while they call for holy war against us. So all they?re truly advocating is how to reward violence and bloodshed. How to appease our killers so that their killing can bring them more satisfaction.

Carter isn?t going to relay our demands to the terrorists. We don?t need him for that. They need him to relay their demands against us and the left loves nothing more than to seek the meeting of those demands. One does not find peace by offering your flesh to a wild animal. You beat it until it relents in thinking you are its snack. How we have fallen so far from our survival instincts is sheer lunacy.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Atreus21
Once you resort to terrorism, you deserve nothing except to be treated as a terrorist. If I were armed, and I came across Osama Bin Laden on the street, I'd kill him on sight. We should adopt the same attitude.

That's the entire problem. The left, as proven here at P&N, wants the war waged against us to be a single sided war in which we absorb all the damage and dole nothing out in return. That is the intent of Carter's trip. To discern the demands of the terrorists so that the left can form a game plan on how to best enact those demands.

All the while they call for holy war against us. So all they?re truly advocating is how to reward violence and bloodshed. How to appease our killers so that their killing can bring them more satisfaction.

Carter isn?t going to relay our demands to the terrorists. We don?t need him for that. They need him to relay their demands against us and the left loves nothing more than to seek the meeting of those demands. One does not find peace by offering your flesh to a wild animal. You beat it until it relents in thinking you are its snack. How we have fallen so far from our survival instincts is sheer lunacy.

You are already dead. Your logic is the logic death driven and absent of any reason. You are all about fear but all your fears have already happened. Your life is one long nightmare. Cowards die many times before their deaths. The valiant never taste of death but once. Carter isn't working for the terrorists you poor blind fool. He has evolved so far beyond you, you have no comprehension. Don't worry be happy. The same sun shines, the same wind blows, the same flowers bloom as a million years ago. Everything is perfect but you forgot how to cry.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: OrByte
what the HELL is so wrong with talking to Hamas?

I swear the hubris being displayed in this thread is assinine.

I think people are afraid that Carter will be successful.

pathetic.

IMO, this is not, and never will be a legitimate conflict. It's a Jihad, and the US is participating in it.

Fuck them if they want more deaths, I don't care one bit about them or their holy war on Islam, I hope the talks DO work!

Watch this video if you have about 10 minutes free, it's about fascists in our own country who literally want to bring on the end-times, so that the world can be cleansed. First on their list? Islam.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Thn9Hnu__pU

Here is a gathering of these people - Some of them are actually law makers.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=K30_Zz7tHYs