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Jimmy Carter Takes a Stand

Isla

Elite member
Sep 12, 2000
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I don't care if he wasn't a good president...

Jimmy Carter is a wonderful man! Further, he is not a religious hypocrite and has shown his integrity again and again.

He just disassociated himself with the Southern Baptists because of their stance on women.

"Carter said in his letter that he and his wife, Rosalynn, will associate with Baptist groups "who share such beliefs as separation of church and state... a free religious press, and the equality of women."

The president of the Southern Baptists had this to say:

"With all due respect to the president, he is a theological moderate. We are not a theological moderate convention."

No doubt! Anyone ever read The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood? Heck, you can rent the movie. It is NOT a good idea for women to be considered less than or you end up with religious oppression and subjugation of women.

For those of you who haven't heard, consider the women in Afganistan:



<< The U.N. recently called the Taliban, a military regime that came to power in Afghanistan three years ago, &quot;the most misogynistic [regime] on Earth.&quot; Women in Afghanistan have been robbed of every basic human right, including education, employment, and freedom of movement. They are forbidden any form of pleasure, even the right to laugh in public. Banned from working, increasing legions of women are now destitute. Women caught breaking any Taliban ruling are subject to public flogging, arrest, even death by stoning. Many women kill themselves ? it's their predominant means of escape. Orthodox routes of escape are unavailable: The Taliban refuses to issue most women passports, the cost of travel is prohibitive, and few countries ? Pakistan is one exception ? accept female refugees. In 1996 and 1997, no Afghan refugees were accepted into the U.S. In 1998, just 88 were. This year, the government has pledged to accept 2,000, a pitiful number considering the conditions in Afghanistan. The majority remain prisoners in their homeland, of which one woman says: &quot;Hell is a better place than what the Taliban has turned it into.&quot; >>



This is just something to think about.

Rant over. ;)
 

Capn

Platinum Member
Jun 27, 2000
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What is their view on women, and what does that have to do with afghanistan?

*puzzled*
 

Isla

Elite member
Sep 12, 2000
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capn

The Southern Baptists ruled against women leadership in the church. In general, they are for the literal translation of women's roles in the Bible... and that we should submit graciously to our men.

Don't get me wrong: I have chosen to be a stay-at-home mom at this time in my life. I also have no desire to lead in any church, or any organization, for that matter. However, this is my choice. I believe women are equal to men and that both sexes should have equal opportunities. Some men make better stay at home moms than their wives do! And some women are better leaders than men. I don't think your genitalia should be the clincher about what you should or shouldn't do with your life.

What this has to do with Afganistan is that Afganistan is an extreme example of what happens when religious beliefs---in their case, the Koran--- are used to oppress women. Yes, it is an extreme case, but it is worth taking notice of. A cautionary tale. I encourage all of you to please, please consider these women who are suffering in your prayers and with your contributions! I am concerned with upholding and establishing Human Rights world wide.... this is my stand.

Anyway, I'm not here to debate. I invite anyone who is interested in these issues to research it and form your own opinions. I am just bringing the subject up, and commending my favorite ex-pres. ;)
 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
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Isla:

Nice post and nice justification, not that those views should need any justification to anyone but a hard-headed engineer. <cough, cough>

Frankly, I cannot stand wussy women. They are a complete turnoff. How any man can put up with a woman who whines &quot;Yes, dear&quot; all day escapes me. Why don't they just buy a collie?

Bette Midler is about right for me. :p

Anything less causes my insulin levels to drop precipitously low. :p
 

Shuxclams

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
9,286
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I wish there were more people like Jimmy Carter in the world. I wanted to donate some time to the Habitat for Humanity Org. but haven't had the time or money to do so yet. Someday I will. :)




SHUX
 

Fathom4

Golden Member
Feb 11, 2000
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Isla
You know my stance on groups that interpret the bible literally. The bible is a library of books inspired by God and written by MAN 2000 years ago.

If you really read the bible much of what is written that Jesus said contradicts earlier books of the bible. After all I believe Jesus did believe more in the equality of women didn't he?

Groups like the Southern Baptist's are nothing more than a fear mongering group interpreting certain parts of the bible to preach a fearful and vengeful God to further their own cause over their weak minded followers. No thank you, I believe in a loving God that accepts me for my inperfections, forgives me and he alone will stand in judgement of me when the time comes.

Also I don't remember Jesus having a person stenographer taking notes as he preached. The bible was put together after his death by MEN. Even if insprired by God man makes errors and mistakes.

The bible is very inspirational, but individuals that live it to the letter of the law scare the hell out of me. The bible is the living word of God and various passages have held different meanings for me at different times of my life.

Just .02 from a frailed human, just like the men that wrote the bible.

And BTW, Jimmy Carter is man of convictions and has been an inspiration to me for years, yes he was a lousy President, but a wonderful man.

Fathom
 

DAM

Diamond Member
Jan 10, 2000
6,102
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Isla great post, i read about this on cnn, thought it was very meaninful of his part, good job to carter.







dam()
 

Tominator

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,559
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I think the Southern'n Baptist's view on women might seem a bit far fetched to some, but just not having them as leaders in THEIR church doesn't make them evil.

My view on the Woman being subjugated is that in a family situation the MAN of the family is normally viewed, in the Bible as well as most of the World, as the Leader of the Family. When a decision is made, the responsibility lies on the Leader of the Family who just happens to inherit it's effect on that Family as well. He accepts any blame or shame that the actions of anyone in the family brings by their action. Good or Bad!

When a decision is made on anything, it is made by one person in the family. The Woman's views are taken into account by any loving Man, but only one is able to make the decision.

In ANY relationship there is a Leader or one that plays the role of a leader. Everyone else is following by definition.

Is is stated very plainly in the Bible that MEN are to be the Leaders in the Church as setup by Jesus. Carter, although one of our country's best representatives on how good we in the US really are, has changed his views. God does not change his!

Carter is first and foremost a Politician. It is no secret he wants a Nobel in the worst way. Part of his decision is his pandering to the powers that bestow that award.

The Southern Baptist's view on this does not equal Slavery!
 

Raspewtin

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 1999
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I really don't know anything about Southern Baptists, so I have no opinion on them, but Carter is such a good guy. I didn't even know all the postive things he does until my sister moved to Atlanta and I heard more about him.



<< It is no secret he wants a Nobel in the worst way. Part of his decision is his pandering to the powers that bestow that award. >>




It really surprises me that there is a negative way to look at almost anything positive if someone really puts their mind to it.
 

~zonker~

Golden Member
Jan 23, 2000
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I don't mind if people interpret the Bible literally, but if they do I think they should be consistent. If you consistently interpret the Bible literally, slavery would still be an institution (EPH 6:5), bothers in law would be sleeping with your wives (GE 38:8), women would be silent and have their heads covered in church (1CO 14:34) and we would not be able to take out a loan to buy a car (NE 5:7~12)

The Bible is like a window which we can look through to see God. If we use it to create suffering and discrimination, as a weapon, I feel that we are not pleasing God.

Thanks for bringing up the topic Isla. Carter has his heart in the right place IMO.. :)
 

Tominator

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Raspewtin Carter has let it be known to acquaintences that a Nobel is one of his goals. This is old news from several years ago. If you think that his wanting the award is negative, go ahead and think that. Carter is not perfect...surprise!

~zonker~ Southern Baptists base their beliefs on the New Testament not the Old... which has the verses you have taken out of context.
 

Isla

Elite member
Sep 12, 2000
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Tominator,

In many ways, I agree with your point of view... it just is really, really hard to put in practice. In fact, my husband and I have attempted it in our relationship. When we first married, that was the deal... we weren't Southern Baptists, but we were following similar tenets. Unfortunately, getting him to respect me and treat me as Jesus would treat the church was another story. I think it is the rare man who can really be Christ-like enough to make this ideal possible. My husband is a good man, but he is only human. The power went to his head a bit... you know, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. He didn't think much of me because he thought too much of himself and his God-given superiority. He really felt that I was less than him.

Now the balance of power is much more equal. It took some counseling and a lot of soul-searching, but we are happier now. I think having a daughter started him thinking about women's equality a little more. A few years ago, I took a stand and basically let him know I was tired of being a second class citizen in his house. The truth is, he likes it better this way, too! He thought he wanted things the Biblical way, but he wasn't really happy back then. He likes me better as more of an equal. Now that I am considered his co-leader in the family, he can share the load of responsibility with me. He says he respects me more for standing up to him. I respect me more, too. :) I could never have stayed in the marriage if things had not changed. I was being stifled, and I have way too much to give this world to be held down in that way.

Then of course, there is the psychological angle... some one is always manipulating someone else in relationships that are unequal. That's another post, and if you want me to explain, I'll come back later. :)

Of course, this is just my personal experience. Everyone has a different story. It's the individuals that must decide. In an ideal world, the Southern Baptist way would work... it's just not an ideal world.

I just wanted you to know that I do understand your position.... it just didn't work very well for us.

BTW... Hmmmm. Nobel Peace Prize? You all have given me a new goal for the future! Now that would be a worthy thing to pursue. :)

And chess, you will be happy to know that repressing my natural feistiness for a few years didn't do any lasting damage. I've still got it, I've just learned how to conceal it when necessary. Bette is the Divine Miss M for good reason. ;)
 

~zonker~

Golden Member
Jan 23, 2000
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Tominator;

How do you read

MT 5:17 &quot;Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

You may read the Old Testament with a different perspective than the New Testament, which is the point I was trying to make.
 

Fathom4

Golden Member
Feb 11, 2000
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I find intelligent women with their own sense of who they are much more attractive than a passive woman who bows down to a man.

Tominator
Who would you rather spend the rest of your life with, an equal or a door mat?

You can have the door mats, I'll look for an intelligent woman with her own opinions any day. ;)
 

MrPALCO

Banned
Nov 14, 1999
2,064
0
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<< Jimmy Carter Takes a Stand >>



Hooray for Jimmy!

But you are only halfway there, God intends for the women to be treated, not equally, but as The Anointed One treats the family of believers.

:)

 

dennilfloss

Past Lifer 1957-2014 In Memoriam
Oct 21, 1999
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dennilfloss.blogspot.com
I have a lot of respect for Jimmy Carter. He is a good man who almost never gets credit for the release of the American hostages from Iran because of the shenanigans of the Reagan bunch who ensured that this would happen only after the election of 1980 so that Ronnie could take credit.

Time After Time (Cyndi Lauper)

 

PCAddict

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 1999
3,804
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Jimmy Carter is a great American, and an excellent role-model. He was just not presidential material, and I think that was partly due to the fact that he is too good of a human being for that job.

Yes, I am Republican, but I do have alot of respect and admiration for him and the work that he does.
 

Russ

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
21,093
3
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<< the Reagan bunch who ensured that this would happen only after the election of 1980 so that Ronnie could take credit. >>



That is complete and utter crap that has been thoroughly debunked by so many different sources, I can't believe it still even crops up.

As to the issue of who heads the household: Personally, if I were ever stupid enough to get married again, I'd WANT a woman who would take charge, so I wouldn't have to bother. I'm tired.

Russ, NCNE