Jimmy Carter deserves a re-assessment - his foresight on the energy issue

[Vic]

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: Summitdrinker
I see this thread has gone down the drain, but oh well it is funny anyhow

Vic strikes again.
:thumbsdown:

Originally posted by: Summitdrinker
what is it with this Vic guy? how old is he? he a troll or just clueless?

Yay personal attacks?

FYI: I'm 35 and I remember Carter. If I'm so clueless, then why is the historic consensus that Carter was a crappy president? Great guy, crappy president.

Not trying to make personal attacks, but the intelligence sure can be sucked out of a thread whenever you join in.

Try to stay more on topic, then see what happens.

Btw, you were 5 years old when Carter was elected?
My God, that alone is proof you must know what you are talking about!

No, the partisan duck-quacking is what gets sucked out of a thread when I join in. Someone has to break up the circle jerk.

And how could I forget? Those were tough and troubled times. Today's economic conditions that you kids whine about are glory days in comparison.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Vic

And how could I forget? Those were tough and troubled times.

You were 8 years old when reagan was sworn in you tool, I was 5 in 1980 yeah you were soooo aware of carters admin. :roll:

zomg...but but, how could you forget?? LOL

Troubled times...let me guess getting caught stealing all the cookies for yourself? Peeing your bed? :roll:

It is a damn shame you grew up around such good music and such cool things going on and you turned out like a conformist fool. Ashamed you are of my generation.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Vic

And how could I forget? Those were tough and troubled times.

You were 8 years old when reagan was sworn in you tool, I was 5 in 1980 yeah you were soooo aware of carters admin. :roll:

zomg...but but, how could you forget?? LOL

Troubled times...let me guess getting caught stealing all the cookies for yourself? Peeing your bed? :roll:

It is a damn shame you grew up around such good music and such cool things going on and you turned out like a conformist fool. Ashamed you are of my generation.

Yeah, we were also flat broke even though my dad worked full-time as a schoolteacher.
Some of us judge "good times" by more than good music. :roll:

And the funny thing about this post of yours is that you're the partisan conformist tool, and I'm the anti-conformist. Wake up, moron.

BTW, learn math please. I was 9 years old. And you still haven't answered my question about O'Reilly. Hmm... I wonder why not?

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Vic

And the funny thing about this post of yours is that you're the partisan conformist tool, and I'm the anti-conformist. Wake up, moron.

Yet you are the biggest sell out there is shilling whatever right-wing crap that comes down the line. You are a joke, and a disgrace to the spirit of the late 70's 80s, no wonder you are a maladjusted socially inept libertarian fruitcake, noone would have touched you with a 10 foot pole with your mindset. Except the rich and spoiled that is, the same ones you defend endlessly.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Vic

And the funny thing about this post of yours is that you're the partisan conformist tool, and I'm the anti-conformist. Wake up, moron.

Yet you are the biggest sell out there is shilling whatever right-wing crap that comes down the line. You are a joke, and a disgrace to the spirit of the late 70's 80s.

Prove this. Where do I sell out? C'mon. Search and post it. Let's see it.
The problem with you, rot, is that you think Lenin was a "right winger." So OMG I'm so fscking sorry that I don't circle-jerk along with the rest of you commie sympathizing authoritarians out to change the world whether it likes it or not. Oh wait, oops, that's right... anti-conformity to you is forcing everyone to live according to your ideal.

no wonder you are a maladjusted socially inept libertarian fruitcake, noone would have touched you with a 10 foot pole with your mindset. Except the rich and spoiled that is, the same ones you defend endlessly.

Says the guy who spouts nothing but hate and vitriol against almost everyone and everything. You are comedy gold, rot. I seriously laugh out loud at the ironic ignorance in your every post.

 

[Arkaign]

Now THIS thread kills kittens

Talk about derailed, and I wouldn't exactly blame Vic for this one.

I do think Vic likes to enjoy debate, and has a bit of fun stirring things up.

Imho, Carter was a mixed bag like pretty much all presidents. Any single-term president has those kinds of issues, and will be remembered as a 'failure' somewhat, like Bush Sr. Bush Sr inherited a slowing economy that was running out of steam, got blamed for a recession (which was already easing up), and in popped Clinton after the bizarre 3-way race w/Perot playing a purely insane part. Clinton has been remembered a great success by most, due to the soaring economy of the late 90s, which in reality had little to do with his policies, and more to do with Newt's congressional grip. Too bad the Republicans lost their way so badly after they got a president in office. Spend spend spend spend spend tax breaks spend spend spend spend. *Sigh*

Cheers :beer:

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Vic

And the funny thing about this post of yours is that you're the partisan conformist tool, and I'm the anti-conformist. Wake up, moron.

Yet you are the biggest sell out there is shilling whatever right-wing crap that comes down the line. You are a joke, and a disgrace to the spirit of the late 70's 80s.

Prove this. Where do I sell out? C'mon. Search and post it. Let's see it.
The problem with you, rot, is that you think Lenin was a "right winger." So OMG I'm so fscking sorry that I don't circle-jerk along with the rest of you commie sympathizing authoritarians out to change the world whether it likes it or not. Oh wait, oops, that's right... anti-conformity to you is forcing everyone to live according to your ideal.

Your stances you take in here every day are pro-establishment and pro-business you could care less about the individual except for idiotic catch phrases that are meaningless.

It really is a shame you missed out on all this country had to offer being young and free in the 80's - early 90's, but sucking up to the establishment will never get you in the "insiders club" nor will selling out.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Vic

And the funny thing about this post of yours is that you're the partisan conformist tool, and I'm the anti-conformist. Wake up, moron.

Yet you are the biggest sell out there is shilling whatever right-wing crap that comes down the line. You are a joke, and a disgrace to the spirit of the late 70's 80s.

Prove this. Where do I sell out? C'mon. Search and post it. Let's see it.
The problem with you, rot, is that you think Lenin was a "right winger." So OMG I'm so fscking sorry that I don't circle-jerk along with the rest of you commie sympathizing authoritarians out to change the world whether it likes it or not. Oh wait, oops, that's right... anti-conformity to you is forcing everyone to live according to your ideal.

Your stances you take in here every day are pro-establishment and pro-business you could care less about the individual except for idiotic catch phrases that are meaningless.

It really is a shame you missed out on all this country had to offer, but sucking up to the establishment will never get you in the "insiders club" nor will selling out.

This is an amazing display of ignorance from a person who debates Vic on a daily basis to state such a claim. Either you are asleep at the wheel or too stupid to understand what he says, or flatout lying.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Vic

And the funny thing about this post of yours is that you're the partisan conformist tool, and I'm the anti-conformist. Wake up, moron.

Yet you are the biggest sell out there is shilling whatever right-wing crap that comes down the line. You are a joke, and a disgrace to the spirit of the late 70's 80s.

Prove this. Where do I sell out? C'mon. Search and post it. Let's see it.
The problem with you, rot, is that you think Lenin was a "right winger." So OMG I'm so fscking sorry that I don't circle-jerk along with the rest of you commie sympathizing authoritarians out to change the world whether it likes it or not. Oh wait, oops, that's right... anti-conformity to you is forcing everyone to live according to your ideal.

Your stances you take in here every day are pro-establishment and pro-business you could care less about the individual except for idiotic catch phrases that are meaningless.

This has got to be a joke. I'm staunch anti-establishment and rabid pro-individualist. And what's wrong with being pro-small business?

Wow... I don't think anyone is going to agree with you here, rot. You are a-goin' off your rocker....

 

[Steeplerot]

No, he is deluded to think he is anti-establishment, it is nothing less then typical conservative victim complex, sad thing is you all have convinced yourselves you are a minority by taking the side of the system, you are not and never will be.

Both of you stand for the status quo and nothing less, no matter how victimized you feel by being angry white men, you are the problem, not the rebels.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Vic

And the funny thing about this post of yours is that you're the partisan conformist tool, and I'm the anti-conformist. Wake up, moron.

Yet you are the biggest sell out there is shilling whatever right-wing crap that comes down the line. You are a joke, and a disgrace to the spirit of the late 70's 80s.

Prove this. Where do I sell out? C'mon. Search and post it. Let's see it.
The problem with you, rot, is that you think Lenin was a "right winger." So OMG I'm so fscking sorry that I don't circle-jerk along with the rest of you commie sympathizing authoritarians out to change the world whether it likes it or not. Oh wait, oops, that's right... anti-conformity to you is forcing everyone to live according to your ideal.

Your stances you take in here every day are pro-establishment and pro-business you could care less about the individual except for idiotic catch phrases that are meaningless.

I'm not so sure. I think being pro-business is great, because businesses employ people, energize economies, etc. I know you are coming from a certain perspective, but come on. You can be both pro-business and anti-corruption. There are some decent corporations in the US and the rest of the world. Not everything is Enron. Of course with human beings, there is a certain predisposed nature to become corrupt, it's probably instinctual to a degree. This same kind of corruption shows it's head in all forms and types of government. It seems the best safeguards against such things are preventing consolidations of great power, and transparency of action and process in law and government. Look at all the big scandals of the 20th century into our present times, virtually all of them were allowed to transpire because they happened in secret, behind closed doors. They only break (like Enron) when something disastrous occurs as a result.

Bleh, hard to make this concise. Maybe I'm being too 'scientifical' for you

Hehe, all jokes aside, hope that this thread resumes civility soon. Cheers :beer:

 

[Steeplerot]

pro-business was not a good way to put it, I am kinda busy atm though. I am not so sure they would understand anyway after years of kool-aid.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
No, he is deluded to think he is anti-establishment, it is nothing less then typical conservative victim complex, sad thing is you all have convinced yourselves you are a minority by taking the side of the system, you are not and never will be.

Both of you stand for the status quo and nothing less, no matter how victimized you feel by being angry white men, you are the problem, not the rebels.

You need to seek professional help.

I don't have a victim complex, you're the one always screaming conspiracy theories about the evil man bringing you down.

I have not convinced myself I am a minority. Quite the opposite, except for my stance against the WoD, my views are for the most part moderate and mainstream.

I don't feel victimized for being a white male (which you are as well IIRC), and have never once said so.

I don't stand for the status quo, I am strong anti-partisan, anti-corporate, and anti-establishment.

You have a tendency, rot, to make up other peoples' arguments so much, and to such an extreme, all the while refusing to back up your claims about other peoples' arguments (as I already asked you to just a couple of posts ago and you flat refused), that I wonder if it doesn't in fact represent some type of inner turmoil on your part.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: Summitdrinker
I see this thread has gone down the drain, but oh well it is funny anyhow

Vic strikes again.
:thumbsdown:

Er, exactly what shining discussion was broken up here? And where was the trolling?

- One person who seems to think that western Europe is is socialist a la the U.S.S.R.
- One person whose entire post is geared towards a specific poster, loudly proclaiming that nobody should listen to him because he's "spouting nonsense again" and "silly and uninformed"
- One person calling the same poster "a bill o'rielly wanna be bigmouth pseudo-libertarian" (WTF? Catchword quota of the day completed, no doubt.)

This all from someone saying rather mildly that President Carter was a Southern Baptist / weak man / poor leader / terrible salesman. Heaven forbid someone hold a opinion contrary to the wagonful of numbskulls hanging around here.

 

[Steeplerot]

Sorry vic you are not mainstream besides the sides you choose to take in rebutting arguments in here. Which is the key point in seeing where your PoV comes from.

You take the side of coulters, limbaughs and hannity parrots, and think you are some rebel railing against evil socialist conspiracy by liberals to take away your privileged lifestyle, get a grip.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Sorry vic you are not mainstream besides the sides you choose to take in rebutting arguments in here. Which is the key point in seeing where your PoV comes from.

You take the side of coulters, limbaughs and hannity parrots, and think you are some rebel railing against evil socialist conspiracy by liberals to take away your privileged lifestyle, get a grip.

He only appears that way to soembody like you who makes Stalin look like a middle of the road guy. To you everybody is right winged.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Sorry vic you are not mainstream besides the sides you choose to take in rebutting arguments in here. Which is the key point in seeing where your PoV comes from.

You take the side of coulters, limbaughs and hannity parrots, and think you are some rebel railing against evil socialist conspiracy by liberals to take away your privileged lifestyle, get a grip.

He only appears that way to soembody like you who makes Stalin look like a middle of the road guy. To you everybody is right winged.

Hardly, it is the right wing that has gone off the deep end in the past 20 years, I am a righty comapred to anywhere else in the civilized world. Try again.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Sorry vic you are not mainstream besides the sides you choose to take in rebutting arguments in here. Which is the key point in seeing where your PoV comes from.

You take the side of coulter, limbaugh and hannity, and think you are some rebel railing against evil socialist conspiracy by liberals to take away your privileged lifestyle, get a grip.

You keep telling yourself that, rot. You say it so much despite all the evidence to the contrary (for example, I actually cheered and snickered so much when Limbaugh's deafness was announced a few years back that I almost got a vacation here), that one has to wonder what it is that you're really trying to tell us about yourself.

What you don't understand, and won't understand, is the simple fact that freedoms are universal. Or, as Thomas Paine said (and I can't wait for you to spout some ignoant nonsense like he was conservative ), "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression." In your hate and vitriol, this is a concept that is completely lost on you.

 

[judasmachine]

President Carter inheritated more than he could handle. Mr Carter is one helluva guy with one helluva heart.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: judasmachine
President Carter inheritated more than he could handle. Mr Carter is one helluva guy with one helluva heart.

Can't say I know or care much about his past, but he seems more than a little nutty today. Seems to think that just because the Palestinians democratically elected their leaders, we're beholden to fund them whatever their aims may be:

Last week, Mr. Carter went further. He declared that the decision of Western nations to withhold aid from the Palestinian Authority's Hamas-led government is criminal. "It's a crime against the people of Palestine," Mr. Carter told CBC News. "For Canada and others to punish the Palestinian people because they voted for their candidates of choice, I think is literally a crime."

In the same interview, Mr. Carter upped the ante on the offensive premise embedded in his book's title: "There is in many ways a much more serious deprivation of human rights among the Palestinians ... than even there was in South Africa" (our emphasis).

It is outrageous to compare Israel's anti-terrorism policies to those of Apartheid-era South Africa. In the case of South Africa, the abominable treatment of blacks was motivated by a fundamentally racist, white supremacist mindset. In Israel, by contrast, such overt racism is confined to the militant fringe of national politics. As for the security fence, the checkpoints, the Gaza incursions and all the other tactics Mr. Carter deplores -- they are motivated by one thing only: a desire to stop Palestinian terrorism.

Mr. Carter's slur on Canada and other Western nations is equally unwarranted. What "crime" is there in Ottawa's decision to withhold foreign aid from a Palestinian government publicly committed to the destruction of a neighbouring state?

I support the Palestinian people's right to determine their own destiny by choosing their leaders, but don't expect me to write them a cheque for causes I do not support.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Hardly, it is the right wing that has gone off the deep end in the past 20 years, I am a righty comapred to anywhere else in the civilized world. Try again.

Quoted for absolutely freaking hilarity.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Hardly, it is the right wing that has gone off the deep end in the past 20 years, I am a righty comapred to anywhere else in the civilized world. Try again.

Quoted for absolutely freaking hilarity.

I still wonder what happened to you and Stunt, no surprised you come to a American forum though, your povs are not very Canadian.

Oh well, you all export a lot pseudoephidrine for meth, we export right wing BS, guess thats fair.

 

[yllus]

Only you would be stupid enough to figure that all Canadians share a single political perspective.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Vic
A Chernobyl couldn't happen in US reactors. The Soviet design was a joke -- a classic example of the socialist concern for the safety of the people.

No one died from 3 Mile Island.

It wasn't the design of the reactor that lead to Chernobyl, but the worthless administrative structure that lead to the disaster. It was an issue of liability, unwillingness to admit failure or immediate problems in a soviet-designed system that lead to the Meltdown. I forget his name, but the entire crisis happened b/c of one guy in charge. He wouldn't admit that meltdown was occurring (after several technicians/inspectors reported teh problem), and refused to take the failsafe steps that would have prevented it. Then the Soviets denied anything had happened.

The same reactor with a a different control staff would not have lead to a meltdown.

I'm not one to bash Socialism; but I'll sure as hell bash Communism. Such policies lead to the deaths of thousands of innocent villagers in this case.

(...we won't even get into Stalin...)

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Summitdrinker
Carter was not weak; the American people were weak. Go to War with Russia over afghan as the hard liner right wingers wanted (well they made it out as such) just to badmouth him. Problem was the American people didn't want war, another Nam, we were not over that one yet. I guess we got over it now thou, look at where were buried now in Iraq. Man Americans have a poor memory. You younger folks have an excuse, but nobody over the age of 42 with a brain has a excuse for the lessons not learned in Nam and repeated in Iraq.

Also in some way Carter was not a far out left wing Liberal, he was very conservative in some of his policies. Maybe that's why some right-wingers hated him, he was out doing the fake republicans conservatives.

While I agree with you on your other points, this lead me to...huh?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it was those quite a bit older than 42 that took us to Iraq. And the same-aged hawkish voters that put those assholes in power. I haven't seen many in the younger generation that ever supported the Iraq Invasion>Fiasco>Oh Sh1t!
that these yahoos dragged us into.