Jewish 'modesty patrols' sow fear in Israel

Ballatician

Golden Member
Dec 6, 2007
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I was pretty surprised to read this article given the media and most Americans usually focus on condemning such practices when they take place in Islamic countries. Will we see the same hard-line approach to Israel?

By AMY TEIBEL, Associated Press WriterSat Oct 4, 9:45 AM ET

In Israel's ultra-Orthodox Jewish community, where the rule of law sometimes takes a back seat to the rule of God, zealots are on a campaign to stamp out behavior they consider unchaste. They hurl stones at women for such "sins" as wearing a red blouse, and attack stores selling devices that can access the Internet.

In recent weeks, self-styled "modesty patrols" have been accused of breaking into the apartment of a Jerusalem woman and beating her for allegedly consorting with men. They have torched a store that sells MP4 players, fearing devout Jews would use them to download pornography.

"These breaches of purity and modesty endanger our community," said 38-year-old Elchanan Blau, defending the bearded, black-robed zealots. "If it takes fire to get them to stop, then so be it."

Many ultra-Orthodox Jews are dismayed by the violence, but the enforcers often enjoy quiet approval from rabbis eager to protect their own reputations as guardians of the faith, community members say. And while some welcome anything that keeps secular culture out of their cloistered world, others feel terrorized, knowing that the mere perception of impropriety could ruin their lives.

"There are eyes and ears all over the place, very similar to what you hear about in countries like Iran," says Israeli-American novelist Naomi Ragen, an observant Jew who has chronicled the troubles that confront some women living in the ultra-Orthodox world.

The violence has already deepened the antagonism between the 600,000 haredim, or God-fearing, and the secular majority, which resents having religious rules dictated to them.

Religious vigilantes operate in a society that has granted their community influence well beyond its numbers ? partly out of a commitment to revive the great centers of Jewish scholarship destroyed in the Holocaust, but also because the Orthodox are perennial king-makers in Israeli coalition politics.

Thus public transport is grounded for the Jewish Sabbath each Saturday, and the rabbis control all Jewish marriage and divorce in Israel.

In recent years, however, the haredim have eased up on their long campaign to impose their rules on secular areas, and nowadays many restaurants and suburban shopping centers are open on the Sabbath.

These days, most vigilante attacks take place in the zealots' own neighborhoods.

Israel police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said the modesty police are not an organized phenomenon, just rogue enforcers carrying out isolated attacks. But Israel's Justice Ministry used the term "modesty patrols" in an indictment against a man accused of assaulting the Jerusalem woman.

The unidentified, 31-year-old woman had left the ultra-Orthodox fold after getting divorced, according to the indictment filed by the Jerusalem district attorney's office. The indictment said her assailant tried to get her to leave her apartment in a haredi neighborhood in Jerusalem by gagging, beating and threatening to kill her. He was paid $2,000 for the attack, it said.

A 17-year-old who moved to Israel from New York five years ago said she was hospitalized after being attacked with pepper spray by a crowd of men outraged that she was walking down a Jerusalem street with boys.

"They can burn in hell," said the girl, who would identify herself only as Rivka.

She lives in Beit Shemesh, a town outside Jerusalem where the vigilantism has been particularly violent. Zealots there have thrown rocks and spat at women, and set fire to trash bins to protest impiety. Walls of the neighborhood are plastered with signs exhorting women to dress modestly ? spelled out as closed-necked, long-sleeved blouses and long skirts.

The state, catering to religious sensitivities, subsidizes gender-segregated bus routes that service religious neighborhoods. Ragen and several other women challenged the practice in Israel's Supreme Court after an Orthodox Canadian woman in her 50s told police she was kicked, slapped, pushed to the floor and spat upon by men for refusing to move to the back of the bus.

Another Beit Shemesh girl, who asked to be identified only as Esther, said zealots threw rocks, cursed and spat at a friend for wearing a red blouse ? taboo because the color attracts attention.

Yitzhak Polack, a 50-year-old Jerusalem teacher, is one of those who deplore such behavior.

"They are stupid troublemakers who are bringing shame and disgrace on this holy community," he said.

But the rabbis are afraid to condemn them, says Yehuda Meshi-Zahav, another community member.

"They can't come out against zealots who champion modesty. Here and there they write against violence, but the militants ultimately set the tone," he said.

Stores are targeted too.

In August, a Jerusalem man was placed under house arrest on suspicion he set fire to a store in a haredi district of the city that sold MP4 players.

"It started about six months ago. They would come into the store, about 15 of them at a time, screaming, 'This store burns souls!' and they would throw merchandise on the floor and threaten customers," said 31-year-old Aaron Gold, a haredi worker at the Space electronic store.

One Friday night, just before the Sabbath was about to begin, "they smashed a window, doused the place with gasoline and lit a match," Gold said.

Now, a big sign behind the counter says, "All products sold in this store are under rabbinical supervision. By order of the rabbis, no MP4s are sold here."

Clothing stores that sell clothes regarded as provocative have been vandalized, and bleach thrown at merchandise.

Suspicion is all that's needed to spark an attack.

Girls have been expelled from school after being seen talking to boys, a punishment that ruins their marriage prospects.

"It could be very innocent; she could be talking to her brother," Ragen said. But once thrown out of school, "no one ? NO ONE ? will take you in," she added.

In one case, the violence reached the highest levels of haredi society.

Three years ago, a son of Israel's Sephardi chief rabbi, Shlomo Amar, was accused of kidnapping a 17-year-old boy, beating him at knifepoint and terrorizing him with snarling dogs because he had sought the attentions of the accused's unchaperoned sister.

The son was sentenced to two years and eight months in jail.

His sister married a different suitor the following year.

___

Associated Press Writer Ian Deitch contributed to this report.
 

AstroManLuca

Lifer
Jun 24, 2004
15,628
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What else would you expect from people who take the Old Testament literally? It's disgusting.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
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A Jewish burka by any name is a Jewish burka. A red blouse is a slut and a louse you would not for a spouse. At the end of the day, one has to wonder how some of these Puritanical religious nuts of any faith manage to reproduce, how they do it is hard to deduce. Sadly they find a way, but they hold their nose and don't enjoy it, so what the hay. The rest of the time, they are slime. While they worry and do scurry, because somewhere, somehow, somehow, somebody might be enjoying themselves. Can't have that, that is for sure, its more than their minds can endure.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
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I read about this a while ago, and it's total fringe. I didn't read beyond your third para; maybe this is diff.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
What else would you expect from people who take the Old Testament literally? It's disgusting.
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Nothing wrong with the old TestAment, everyone knew everyone else, its quite education in fact.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,559
4
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Thank G-d we don't have laws in America banning the wearing of our jeans to low so the tops of our underwear show.



Oh, wait. We do.
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
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Every country has its freaks, sadly, these are the ones of Israel. Hopefully the work can be expanded to diminish these actions, or we could sequester them from society much like the amish are, so they are only interacting with there own kind besides when they visit the holy places.
 

Woofmeister

Golden Member
Jul 18, 2004
1,385
1
76
It's offensive and unacceptable in a modern society. Israel needs to flood Jerusalem with police to ensure that law-abiding citizens are protected from these religious zealots.
 

LumbergTech

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2005
3,622
1
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Originally posted by: RichardE
Every country has its freaks, sadly, these are the ones of Israel. Hopefully the work can be expanded to diminish these actions, or we could sequester them from society much like the amish are, so they are only interacting with there own kind besides when they visit the holy places.

everywhere has its freaks, but some places keep those people under control.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Well America is hardly a bastion of sexual liberation, a topless male may be acceptable in many public places, let us see a topless female past puberty in public, and 98% of America will blow a complete fuse.

Not even a bra will save the situation, its must be a bikini top at a minimum.
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
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Originally posted by: LumbergTech
Originally posted by: RichardE
Every country has its freaks, sadly, these are the ones of Israel. Hopefully the work can be expanded to diminish these actions, or we could sequester them from society much like the amish are, so they are only interacting with there own kind besides when they visit the holy places.

everywhere has its freaks, but some places keep those people under control.

Depends what you mean by control. The Bible Belt excersizes more control over its people (without violence) in the name of religion than these people do in Israel.

If you mean by control that authority and persuasion is achieved by means other than violence, than you are right. If you mean that authority is only in the hands of the government and not extremists in any way than you are wrong.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,566
6,708
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Good! Nothing pisses me off more than being distracted of some half nude girl when I'm trying to think about God.

And we got the same thing here in this forum. Say something stupid and watch what Red Dawn does. Compared to that stones are easy.
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
And religion hasn't held back mankind? GTFO. Insane people. They need psychiatrists on hand but that would probably be seen as subverting the will of God somehow. Douchbaggery to the max. Rock & Roll is of the Devil! :roll:
 
Oct 30, 2004
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<Sigh>. I guess there is such a thing as Jewish morons too. They'd probably stone me to death for having rejected Judiasm as a religion and become an intransigent atheist.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Originally posted by: Aimster
Israel is in the M.E

What the hell did people expect
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Orthodox Jews are location independent, there is a surplus in New York State.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,491
9,712
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Let me know when they commit an act of war against us. Until then, the article mentions extremists but there are enough out there that we must prioritize. The ones killing our people take first priority.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
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Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
And religion hasn't held back mankind? GTFO. Insane people. They need psychiatrists on hand but that would probably be seen as subverting the will of God somehow. Douchbaggery to the max. Rock & Roll is of the Devil! :roll:

Seriously...

Stuff like this makes me wonder what the world would be like if we woke up tomorrow and there were no religions at all. I suspect it would be a vast improvement, in many ways. Spirituality can be great, but religion seems to be pretty universally holding back the human race.
 

Drift3r

Guest
Jun 3, 2003
3,572
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Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
And religion hasn't held back mankind? GTFO. Insane people. They need psychiatrists on hand but that would probably be seen as subverting the will of God somehow. Douchbaggery to the max. Rock & Roll is of the Devil! :roll:

Seriously...

Stuff like this makes me wonder what the world would be like if we woke up tomorrow and there were no religions at all. I suspect it would be a vast improvement, in many ways. Spirituality can be great, but religion seems to be pretty universally holding back the human race.

Take a gander at Christopher Hitchen's "God is not Great" book.
 

trance247

Senior member
Jan 17, 2006
363
0
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Culture clash in that country amazes me, I lived there for a month and we went all around the country...I loved it, but I truly feel that religion is way too overbearing there. On good side they follow their tradition to celebrate every holiday like it is a last one. And in this day and age, you never know if it is...but stuff like this, or when you cant eat meat and milk products at the same section of a food court, also my favorite when russian jews beat up arabic guy for knocking over their pork bbq on the beach...I mean cmon the country is surrounded by potential enemies, if it was not for US they would have been constantly at war in order to live another day as nation...but now I guess it is more importnqt to burn computers and stone women, wait I thought that is what backward cultures that support terrorism do???!

My opinion is that they really need to figure out a "working" version of seporation of church and state and silly religious behavior like this should be punisheable.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
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Fund A Mental Cases whether they be Christian, Jewish or Muslim are a bane to Civilizations advancement.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
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Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Fund A Mental Cases whether they be Christian, Jewish or Muslim are a bane to Civilizations advancement.

Exactly. Nothing wrong with people believing whatever they want, the problems always come up when they want to ensure that others adhere to their beliefs......
 

seemingly random

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2007
5,277
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Thanks again for the gift of religion that keeps on giving and giving - or really, taking and taking. It ranks right up there with aids.