Jerusalem Palestinians prefer Israel

SamurAchzar

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2006
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So says this poll:

http://pechterpolls.com/?p=399

A majority prefers to live as Israeli citizens, even if they have to relocate in order to avoid being annexed to PA control.

For anyone with some knowledge of the situation, this isn't surprising. Most Arabs prefer the Western standard of living and freedom provided by Israel to the corrupt, oppressive alternative presented by Arab rule.

An analysis of the poll:

Why Palestinians want to be Israeli citizens
By Jackson Diehl

One of the givens of the Middle East peace process is that Palestinians are eager to be free of rule by Israel and to live in a state of their own. That's why a new poll of the Arabs of East Jerusalem is striking: It shows that more of those people actually would prefer to be citizens of Israel than of a Palestinian state.

The poll, conducted in November, may be something of an embarrassment to Palestinian political leaders, who lately have been insisting that Israel should stop expanding settlements in the eastern half of Jerusalem -- in effect giving up any claim to it -- as a precondition for the resumption of peace negotiations. This week the demolition of a hotel in an Arab neighborhood in preparation for the construction of Jewish housing prompted fresh criticism of Israel from Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, while a leaked memo from European Union diplomats stationed in the city proposed that EU governments recognize East Jerusalem as the capital of the future Palestinian state.

The awkward fact is that the 270,000 Arabs who live in East Jerusalem may not be very enthusiastic about joining Palestine. The survey, which was designed and supervised by former State Department Middle East researcher David Pollock, found that only 30 percent said they would prefer to be citizens of Palestine in a two-state solution, while 35 percent said they would choose Israeli citizenship. (The rest said they didn't know or refused to answer.) Forty percent said they would consider moving to another neighborhood in order to become a citizen of Israel rather than Palestine, and 54 percent said that if their neighborhood were assigned to Israel, they would not move to Palestine.

The reasons for these attitudes are pretty understandable, even healthy. Arabs say they prefer Israel's jobs, schools, health care and welfare benefits to those of a Palestinian state -- and their nationalism is not strong enough for them to set aside these advantages in order to live in an Arab country. The East Jerusalemites don't much love Israel -- they say they suffer from discrimination. But they seem to like what it has to offer. Remarkably, 56 percent said they traveled inside Israel at least once a week; 60 percent said access to its Mediterranean beaches was "very important" or "moderately important" to them.

"Quite clearly there is a discrepancy between people's attitudes and the assumption that Palestinian neighborhoods should be part of Palestine," said Pollock, whose work was sponsored by Pechter Middle East polls and the Council on Foreign Relations. "That's not actually what the people want."

It's important to note that East Jerusalem Palestinians are different from West Bank or Gaza Palestinians -- they live on Israel's side of its West Bank barrier and hold "blue cards" that allow them access to Israeli jobs, health care, and welfare payments. Many are middle class by Middle Eastern standards -- 44 percent of those surveyed had household incomes of more than $1,300 per month. Broadly, they resemble Israel's Arab citizens, who have also been shown in polls to prefer remaining in Israel to joining a Palestinian state.

The East Jerusalemites do have one thing in common with other Palestinians, as well as Israelis: They are pessimistic about the current peace process. More than 40 percent said that even if Israelis and Palestinians signed a peace deal and East Jerusalem became the capital of a new state, some Palestinian militants would certainly or probably continue an armed struggle against Israel. And fully 64 percent said it was very likely or somewhat likely that if the current negotiations collapse, there will be a new intifada, or uprising by Palestinians, including those in Jerusalem.

The bottom line messages seem to be that peace talks are essential to prevent violence, but that even success won't lead to total peace; and that a lot of Palestinians would prefer to live near, but not in, a Palestinian state.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Liar liar pants on fire Sammy.

First you say Palestinians prefer Israel, but wait that is a lie, when the polling population is not Palestinians with no Israeli citizenship rights and in fact consists of Arab nationals that do have almost full Israeli citizen ship rights.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
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So says this poll:

http://pechterpolls.com/?p=399

A majority prefers to live as Israeli citizens, even if they have to relocate in order to avoid being annexed to PA control.

For anyone with some knowledge of the situation, this isn't surprising. Most Arabs prefer the Western standard of living and freedom provided by Israel to the corrupt, oppressive alternative presented by Arab rule.

An analysis of the poll:
Man Palestine must really, really suck.
 

SamurAchzar

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2006
2,422
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Liar liar pants on fire Sammy.

First you say Palestinians prefer Israel, but wait that is a lie, when the polling population is not Palestinians with no Israeli citizenship rights and in fact consists of Arab nationals that do have almost full Israeli citizen ship rights.

They call themselves Palestinians and riot for the Palestinian cause, but ultimately they enjoy Israel very much, they just don't come clean about it. This poll shows it nicely.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Man Palestine must really, really suck.
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Yes you are correct Red Dawn, nothing is worse than being tossed into the dual Israeli concentration camps of Gaza and the West Bank where Arab nations would have far bleaker prospects and no Israeli rights.

But wait, if Israeli settler parties have any say about it, all them Arab Nationals who have lived in East Jerusalem for centuries, would be deported into Israeli concentration camps anyway. As it is, they are being evicted from their homes so they are be replaced gradually by politically correct Jews in increasing numbers. And their only protection lies in a Israeli settlement freeze. Failing that they are an endangered species already.
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,018
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When 40% won't say, you can basically add that to the Israeli count. Pretty bad when you think about it...
 

Karl Agathon

Golden Member
Sep 30, 2010
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Liar liar pants on fire Sammy.

First you say Palestinians prefer Israel, but wait that is a lie, when the polling population is not Palestinians with no Israeli citizenship rights and in fact consists of Arab nationals that do have almost full Israeli citizen ship rights.

A little OT but I LOL'd when I first red that in bold.
 

SamurAchzar

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2006
2,422
3
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When 40% won't say, you can basically add that to the Israeli count. Pretty bad when you think about it...

Yep, for a group so keen on their heritage, having 40% say nothing on such a sensitive subject is a pretty strong statement.
 

SandEagle

Lifer
Aug 4, 2007
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i'm sure they're dying to go there where they will be welcome with open arms.

"One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail." -- Rabbi Yaacov Perrin, Feb. 27, 1994 [Source: N.Y. Times, Feb. 28, 1994, p. 1]
 

SamurAchzar

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2006
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""We plan to eliminate the State of Israel and establish a purely Palestinian state. We will make life unbearable for Jews by psychological warfare and population explosion... We Palestinians will take over everything, including all of Jerusalem."

-- Yasser Arafat, addressing an Arab audience in Stockholm, 1996
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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""We plan to eliminate the State of Israel and establish a purely Palestinian state. We will make life unbearable for Jews by psychological warfare and population explosion... We Palestinians will take over everything, including all of Jerusalem."

-- Yasser Arafat, addressing an Arab audience in Stockholm, 1996
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And when we add in the ""One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail." -- Rabbi Yaacov Perrin, Feb. 27, 1994 [Source: N.Y. Times, Feb. 28, 1994, p. 1] ",

the only damn conclusion remaining is that we have Israeli and Palestinians extremists nuts who are out of their minds. Maybe its far past time for everyone to tell both to eat shit and die. Tell them to not go away mad, just go away.

The point is and remains, both Israel and Palestinians have far more rational people on both sides, if we only follow and only believe the worst nuts on both sides, there is no hope. But if we believe in more moderate people there is every hope that we can have that win win win of just mid-east peace.
 

SamurAchzar

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2006
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the only damn conclusion remaining is that we have Israeli and Palestinians extremists nuts who are out of their minds. Maybe its far past time for everyone to tell both to eat shit and die. Tell them to not go away mad, just go away.

The difference is that Arafat is the greatest Palestinian of all times, a national symbol and their hero.
Who, exactly, is Rabbi Yaacov Perrin? :rolleyes:
 

Freshgeardude

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2006
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The difference is that Arafat is the greatest Palestinian of all times, a national symbol and their hero.
Who, exactly, is Rabbi Yaacov Perrin? :rolleyes:


+1


an elected leader of the Palestinians...


or just another radical.


shall I quote every single radical arab?

"allah akbar!!!!!" followed by either an explosion, a gun firing, or at a prayer service.




your defense is invalid and extremely weak.


By the way LL, I love how you just abandoned the other thread after you tried to invoke a french king from 1700s and the japanese domination of territories which ended 65 years ago.



seriously, you should stop trying so hard, you make yourself look foolish.
 
Jun 26, 2007
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On one hand, a shithole with a leadership that has every intention to do it's best so it remains a shithole for the people while they drink Cristal for breakfast and on the other hand a prosperous nation that takes good care of it's citisens...

A really hard choice, isn't it?
 
Jun 26, 2007
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The difference is that Arafat is the greatest Palestinian of all times, a national symbol and their hero.
Who, exactly, is Rabbi Yaacov Perrin? :rolleyes:

I seem to remember that all of us who are Jews on this forum have already agreed that orthodox radical Jews are fucked up?

So quoting someone we all already agreed is fucked up is going to do exactly what? Perhaps Lemon forgot, he forgets everything, sometimes he forgets how to quote.
 

Freshgeardude

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2006
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I seem to remember that all of us who are Jews on this forum have already agreed that orthodox radical Jews are fucked up?

So quoting someone we all already agreed is fucked up is going to do exactly what? Perhaps Lemon forgot, he forgets everything, sometimes he forgets how to quote.


no LL doesnt forget, he doesnt consider them radicals.

just as he doesnt think radicals in islam are in fact radicals.

so to him, all in one religion are simple followers and no one is a radical.

i mean, blowing yourself up in the name of your religion is so common and nonchalant :rolleyes:


remember when he called ahmadinejad a moderate?
 
Jun 26, 2007
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no LL doesnt forget, he doesnt consider them radicals.

just as he doesnt think radicals in islam are in fact radicals.

so to him, all in one religion are simple followers and no one is a radical.

i mean, blowing yourself up in the name of your religion is so common and nonchalant :rolleyes:


remember when he called ahmadinejad a moderate?

Well ajajajajajd is kind of a moderate, which tells us all how bad the Mullahs that really rule Iran are.

ajdadadimad is a clown at best, i think he sees himself as a rockstar, i always kind of laugh when i see his pics because i can't take him seriously.

No one should take him seriously, every time he appears everyone should just point and laugh, maybe he'll nuke himself in retaliation?
 

SamurAchzar

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2006
2,422
3
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I seem to remember that all of us who are Jews on this forum have already agreed that orthodox radical Jews are fucked up?

You won't get any good words towards the Orthodox Jews from me. Some hassidic sections of them, are, to me, deep into pagan territory.

But I'm not discussing radicals here, just what the average self-proclaimed Palestinian that is a citizen of Israel would rather, be under Israeli or under Palestinian control.
 

Scotteq

Diamond Member
Apr 10, 2008
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You won't get any good words towards the Orthodox Jews from me. Some hassidic sections of them, are, to me, deep into pagan territory.

But I'm not discussing radicals here, just what the average self-proclaimed Palestinian that is a citizen of Israel would rather, be under Israeli or under Palestinian control.



I should think the average citizen would rather live in a Nation where (he) can provide for (his) family and make a decent living. The label that state happens to wear is of far lesser importance.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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I should think the average citizen would rather live in a Nation where (he) can provide for (his) family and make a decent living. The label that state happens to wear is of far lesser importance.
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Sadly the Scotteg statement means little, at present./ When Israel has and does everything to depress the economy of Gaza and the West Bank, and even East Jerusalem, anyone would rather live in the economy not being artificially depressed. But if we have an Independent Palestinian State, Arabs and Palestinians will enjoy far more freedoms and not have to worry about Israeli settlers kicking them off their land.

But right now that Palestinian State is pie in the sky. And so is the Scotteg question.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
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Isreal provides things like Water and fuel and electricity.

I think that Mexico is slowly turning into another palestine.
 

SamurAchzar

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2006
2,422
3
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But if we have an Independent Palestinian State, Arabs and Palestinians will enjoy far more freedoms and not have to worry about Israeli settlers kicking them off their land.

We'll do a little contest - to win you just have to name one Arab/Muslim country in which MUSLIMS enjoy greater freedoms than they do in Israel.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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We'll do a little contest - to win you just have to name one Arab/Muslim country in which MUSLIMS enjoy greater freedoms than they do in Israel.
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That question really depend on which Muslims we are talking about. If we are only talking about some Arab nationals in Israel with semi full citizen rights we get one answer, if we are talking about Palestinian Muslims in the West Bank and Gaza, we get a totally different answer. Because that latter group, at birth, has fewer human rights than any group in the entire world bar none!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And we are talking about a groups who parents parents parents used to have full citizen rights on the land of their birth.

We would not permit such a travesty to occur in the USA, yet too many of us assume a Jew should have more human rights than a Palestinian. And support a State of Israel built on such an unjust and unsustainable foundation. Why?????????

Those are not American values, those are the values of Israeli government pigs and thieves.
 
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EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
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Yet the thieves of '48 should be rewarded?
What did those Palestinians do for 20 years when they had full access/control over their land.
Did they request statehood or were they to busy plotting with the Arab nations how to take over all of the Palestine Mandate?
Are they interestedin statehood at the present? Apparently not - the Israel government has opened a window of opportunity for them to talk - where is Abbas? Like the last opportunity, they are ignoring it until to late.
Jsut