Jeremy Clarkson reviews the Bugatti Veyron

[James3shin]

The Veyron is a very forgiving car it seems...1.3g on the pad! For comparison, the '95 F1 LM came in around .94g. 🙁 Seems the Veyron is not only faster, but quicker. I guess all I can hold onto for the F1 is its aesthetics and its 10 year benchmark.

 

[Apex]

Originally posted by: James3shin

Originally posted by: Apex

Originally posted by: James3shin
I still hold the McLaren F1 as the "perfect car" just because it's an all around beast. With a combination of exceptional stopping, handling, accelerating, and top-speed, the F1 to me, is a better car, albeit the Veyron is better at top speed and acceleration. I'd take the F1 at Seca over the Veyron because of the overall package.

The Veyron will out corner the McLaren too (as will a garden variety C6 Corvette).

I don't know Apex, I know that you have experience behind the wheel, but I really can't see a car weighing in at +4000lbs out handling the F1. Care to ease my curiousity?

I don't think the Veyron have the feel of the F1 when cornering. The F1 is a light, mid-engined RWD vehicle. Every review has said the Veyron does feel like a heavy car when cornering. However, grip wise, the F1 was nothing special. Part of it had to do with suspension & tire technology when it was developed when compared with today's technology. When we're talking about cornering, the Veyron should be able to beat the F1 around pretty much any corner we choose. Handling feel wise? I'd say the F1 is probably still superior.

 

[James3shin]

Originally posted by: Apex

Originally posted by: James3shin

Originally posted by: Apex

Originally posted by: James3shin
I still hold the McLaren F1 as the "perfect car" just because it's an all around beast. With a combination of exceptional stopping, handling, accelerating, and top-speed, the F1 to me, is a better car, albeit the Veyron is better at top speed and acceleration. I'd take the F1 at Seca over the Veyron because of the overall package.

The Veyron will out corner the McLaren too (as will a garden variety C6 Corvette).

I don't know Apex, I know that you have experience behind the wheel, but I really can't see a car weighing in at +4000lbs out handling the F1. Care to ease my curiousity?

I don't think the Veyron have the feel of the F1 when cornering. The F1 is a light, mid-engined RWD vehicle. Every review has said the Veyron does feel like a heavy car when cornering. However, grip wise, the F1 was nothing special. Part of it had to do with suspension & tire technology when it was developed when compared with today's technology. When we're talking about cornering, the Veyron should be able to beat the F1 around pretty much any corner we choose. Handling feel wise? I'd say the F1 is probably still superior.

I concur sir! :thumbsup:

 

[Plasdom]

When you push a car past 180mph, the world starts to get awfully fizzy and a little bit frightening. When you go past 200mph it actually becomes blurred. Almost like you?re trapped in an early Queen pop video. At this sort of speed the tyres and the suspension are reacting to events that happened some time ago, and they have not finished reacting before they?re being asked to do something else. The result is a terrifying vibration that rattles your optical nerves, causing double vision. This is not good when you?re covering 300ft a second.

Happily, stopping distances become irrelevant because you won?t see the obstacle in the first place. By the time you know it was there, you?ll have gone through the windscreen, through the Pearly Gates and be half way across God?s breakfast table.

Nice. British I presume? Only the English can write like this

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

I would agree that Veyron has more grip than the McLaren F1...but I disagree that it would beat the F1 in cornering capabilities.

Having only read numerous articles on both cars, I would say that the McLaren F1 would have a higher cornering speed (mostly due to weight and size) than the Veyron on most corners/chicanes, etc.. that you would find on the track.

However on long sweeping corners (such as say 130R at Suzuka or the new Turn 8 at Istanbul), I would think the Veyron would be faster simply because it is not a tight corner, but more of a high speed one that favors grip over transitional balance.

 

[Goosemaster]

Keep in mind that it actually produces a total of 1096hp(forgot the exact number) AFTER running all of those radiator, which I think eat up 2000hp.

 

[cmv]

Originally posted by: iwantanewcomputer

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: SampSon
This car is slow.

What do you drive?

A Veyron with upgraded turbos.

In what way.....

upgraded with 112% more shens?

Most definately FTW!

 

[yankeesfan]

I can't wait for the Top Gear race later this season.

 

[MisterJackson]

Originally posted by: LeiZaK
The only thing I want to know is:....











will my penis fit in the fuel door?

Does a speck of dust fit in the Grand Canyon??????

 

[Pocatello]

Awesome car.

 

[CFster]

There's more to handling than grip.

Hell, an IROC Camaro can produce decent numbers on a skidpad, just because of all the rubber.

But when it comes to quick direction changes, shifting of weight, damping over bumps - this is where I think the Veyron is going to get pwned.

4100lbs is 4100lbs. That's 500lbs heavier than my 64 Dodge.

 

[Apex]

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN
I would agree that Veyron has more grip than the McLaren F1...but I disagree that it would beat the F1 in cornering capabilities.

Having only read numerous articles on both cars, I would say that the McLaren F1 would have a higher cornering speed (mostly due to weight and size) than the Veyron on most corners/chicanes, etc.. that you would find on the track.

However on long sweeping corners (such as say 130R at Suzuka or the new Turn 8 at Istanbul), I would think the Veyron would be faster simply because it is not a tight corner, but more of a high speed one that favors grip over transitional balance.

I kind of doubt the F1 will have a higher cornering speed even on tight tracks than the Veyron. This is the reason:

Tight corners are really 4 things:

1. Braking zone (by all accounts, the F1's brakes were strong, but not known to be an especially potent part of its overall performance mix). As long as your brakes are strong enough to lock the tires repeatedly, brakes are a wash. It comes down to weight distribution, and tire grip. They both have awesome weight distribution for braking, right about 41/59. The Veyron's tires are far better.

2. Initial turn in. Again, both have awesome weight distribution for this, practically ideal. The Veyron may have a bit more understeer because of the AWD, perhaps giving the advantage to the F1. This is a small part of the anatomy of a corner.

3. Steady state cornering. Veyron will dominate with its far higher grip levels. In a tight corner, this is again, a very small part.

4. Acceleration out of that corner. Veyron will absolutely dominate here too with higher grip, much more power, and AWD.

Anyhow, this is my thinking, having driven absolutely none of these cars. 🙂

 

[James3shin]

I agree CFster that a high skidpad rating does not equate into excellent handling, however, after reading about the Veyron's adaptive suspension (seems akin to Porsche) and drivers impressions. It seems to be a very forgiving car that is quick around the bends...J. Clarkson did say, "And then I reached the Alps where, unbelievably, it got better. I expected this road rocket to be absolutely useless in the bends but it felt like a big Lotus Elise." I know "feel" is ambiguous, but "big Lotus Elise" does sound comforting.

 

[James3shin]

Expanding on the Braking zone idea brought forth by Apex, there was a great article from Stoptech that basically compared braking distances while changing tyres and then a combination of both tyres and brakes. It seems tyres had the most dramatic effect in decreasing braking distances. Better brakes on the other hand increased feel of the car. Bah! I can't find the article anymore.

Note:

The Veyron tyres are as wide as the Mississippi, 245/690 R 520 A front and 365/710 R 540 A rear...thats a lot of damn rubber!

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: Apex

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN
I would agree that Veyron has more grip than the McLaren F1...but I disagree that it would beat the F1 in cornering capabilities.

Having only read numerous articles on both cars, I would say that the McLaren F1 would have a higher cornering speed (mostly due to weight and size) than the Veyron on most corners/chicanes, etc.. that you would find on the track.

However on long sweeping corners (such as say 130R at Suzuka or the new Turn 8 at Istanbul), I would think the Veyron would be faster simply because it is not a tight corner, but more of a high speed one that favors grip over transitional balance.

I kind of doubt the F1 will have a higher cornering speed even on tight tracks than the Veyron. This is the reason:

Tight corners are really 4 things:

1. Braking zone (by all accounts, the F1's brakes were strong, but not known to be an especially potent part of its overall performance mix). As long as your brakes are strong enough to lock the tires repeatedly, brakes are a wash. It comes down to weight distribution, and tire grip. They both have awesome weight distribution for braking, right about 41/59. The Veyron's tires are far better.

2. Initial turn in. Again, both have awesome weight distribution for this, practically ideal. The Veyron may have a bit more understeer because of the AWD, perhaps giving the advantage to the F1. This is a small part of the anatomy of a corner.

3. Steady state cornering. Veyron will dominate with its far higher grip levels. In a tight corner, this is again, a very small part.

4. Acceleration out of that corner. Veyron will absolutely dominate here too with higher grip, much more power, and AWD.

Anyhow, this is my thinking, having driven absolutely none of these cars. 🙂

During Initial turn in I think the F1 would have the nod since it would simply turn in faster than the Veyron due to significantly lighter weight. There would be more transitional weight transfer on the Veyron which would hamper its cornering speed as it would take more time to shift the weight, especially on a tight corner.

I agree with you on braking, but the F1 would have to brake less as it can carry more speed through the corner.

Its like saying an M5 has a higher cornering speed than the Elise. The M5 may have more grip, but there is no way it can change direction as quickly as an Elise.

 

[Apex]

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: Apex

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN
I would agree that Veyron has more grip than the McLaren F1...but I disagree that it would beat the F1 in cornering capabilities.

Having only read numerous articles on both cars, I would say that the McLaren F1 would have a higher cornering speed (mostly due to weight and size) than the Veyron on most corners/chicanes, etc.. that you would find on the track.

However on long sweeping corners (such as say 130R at Suzuka or the new Turn 8 at Istanbul), I would think the Veyron would be faster simply because it is not a tight corner, but more of a high speed one that favors grip over transitional balance.

I kind of doubt the F1 will have a higher cornering speed even on tight tracks than the Veyron. This is the reason:

Tight corners are really 4 things:

1. Braking zone (by all accounts, the F1's brakes were strong, but not known to be an especially potent part of its overall performance mix). As long as your brakes are strong enough to lock the tires repeatedly, brakes are a wash. It comes down to weight distribution, and tire grip. They both have awesome weight distribution for braking, right about 41/59. The Veyron's tires are far better.

2. Initial turn in. Again, both have awesome weight distribution for this, practically ideal. The Veyron may have a bit more understeer because of the AWD, perhaps giving the advantage to the F1. This is a small part of the anatomy of a corner.

3. Steady state cornering. Veyron will dominate with its far higher grip levels. In a tight corner, this is again, a very small part.

4. Acceleration out of that corner. Veyron will absolutely dominate here too with higher grip, much more power, and AWD.

Anyhow, this is my thinking, having driven absolutely none of these cars. 🙂

During Initial turn in I think the F1 would have the nod since it would simply turn in faster than the Veyron due to significantly lighter weight. There would be more transitional weight transfer on the Veyron which would hamper its cornering speed as it would take more time to shift the weight, especially on a tight corner.

I agree with you on braking, but the F1 would have to brake less as it can carry more speed through the corner.

Its like saying an M5 has a higher cornering speed than the Elise. The M5 may have more grip, but there is no way it can change direction as quickly as an Elise.

Weight transfer's effect on initial turn in does not depend on weight. It depends on the ratio of weight to grip. That's why a Yokohama Advan A048 equipped Elise will turn in so much better than one equipped with the Neova AD07 tires. The weight has not really changed, nor the weight distribution, but the grip has increased.

The F1 needs to brake more than the Veyron, because it cannot carry more speed through the corner. How much speed you can carry through the corner (steady state) is a function of grip, not weight.

The M5 only has higher cornering speeds than an Elise where its high speed acceleration allows it to power out of a turn faster. It has less grip than an Elise and much worse weight distribution (close to 50/50 instead of the Elise's 39/61).

Basically this is how it works, as I understand it:

Take cars 1 and 2, both with 40/60 weight distribution, identical suspension capabilities, identical braking capabilities, and have a power to weight ratio of 10 lbs per hp. We're basically just holding constant the variables that we want to cancel out.

Furthermore, car 1 weighs 1000 lbs and corners at 1g. Car 2 weighs 2000 lbs and corners at 1.2g thanks to better tires.

Car 2 will corner at higher speeds.

 

[overst33r]

Originally posted by: Goosemaster
Keep in mind that it actually produces a total of 1096hp(forgot the exact number) AFTER running all of those radiator, which I think eat up 2000hp.

1000 is wasted thru the exhaust, 1000 by the cooling system, so there is a 1000 left for the wheels...3000HP total wow!