Jeep guys - what transmission to get? (with poll!)

[Fenixgoon]

A friend of mine wants to get a wrangler for both on- and off-road use. Is she better off with an auto or manual transmission?


Thanks!

 

[Bignate603]

My CJ-5 has a manual and my cherokee has an automatic. Offroad, the automatic has its advantages. You can't stall it. After you get hung up on a steep incline and have your engine stall you'll understand how precarious you can feel. On my CJ-5 my gearing is low enough that I can start up in gear with my foot on the brake as long as I give it some gas but I don't believe stock wranglers can do that. You'll need to choose whether you want to roll backwards until you get to some spot that's more flat or try to dance between all 3 pedals to start moving without rolling back. Depending on where you stalled out it can be nerve wracking to get going again.

Another advantage of the automatic is torque magnification. Torque converters can magnify torque 2 or 3 times. It only has a noticeable affect at relatively slow speeds but for many offroading situations that's a good advantage.

There will always be some people that prefer manual for their 4x4s but if I was going to buy another new one it would be an auto.

 

[Arkaign]

^^ Great, great info from Nate there. One of the few situations where a conventional torque-converter auto has real advantages over a standard or computer-shifted manual.

 

[desy]

I selected Manual because rocking out I found to be easier 'mostly snowy situations'

 

[Bignate603]

A few other things to think about:

- Offroading can send send shocks through your driveline, a slushbox helps cushion the shock.
- For things like deep sand where you need to maintain wheel speed to avoid bogging down an automatic can do a smooth gearshift while maintaining forward motion. Trying to shift with a manual will often end up with you getting losing wheel speed and bogging.
- Less dependence on gearing. With manuals if you need to crawl slowly you either need to slip your clutch or have very low gears. My CJ-5 has a 7:1 first gear, 2.46:1 low gear in the transfer case, and 4.88:1 gears in the axles. It crawls slower than molasses on a cold day in Siberia, but even then it sometimes is too fast. On some obstacles you need to pull up to a certain point and then switch directions quickly. For many obstacles you don't want to roll backwards or risk stalling so with a manual you're not going to be able to stick in the clutch. That means while you're trying to maneuver quickly your vehicle keeps on rolling forward, potentially getting you into trouble. A stock wrangler isn't going to get near the crawl ratio of my CJ-5 so the problem is going to be even worse.

Having driven both offroad I'm going to stand by my advice, an automatic is far simpler to use and honestly is more fun, mostly because there's less points where you feel like one wrong move will kill you. While I love my CJ-5 there has been a few times when it got very dicey, trying to dance over all three pedals at the same time.

The one advantage I can think of for manuals is engine braking. They do make it easier to descend very steep things by putting it into the lowest gear possible and idling down. However, in my experience the benefits of them outweigh this advantage.

 

[Throckmorton]

Automatic is better offroad. Manual is more fun on the street though. I wish my Jeep was a manual, but for someone who is new to offroading I think an auto is the only real choice.

 

[Jumpem]

Auto for offroading.

 

[Throckmorton]

A few other things to think about:

- Offroading can send send shocks through your driveline, a slushbox helps cushion the shock.
- For things like deep sand where you need to maintain wheel speed to avoid bogging down an automatic can do a smooth gearshift while maintaining forward motion. Trying to shift with a manual will often end up with you getting losing wheel speed and bogging.
- Less dependence on gearing. With manuals if you need to crawl slowly you either need to slip your clutch or have very low gears. My CJ-5 has a 7:1 first gear, 2.46:1 low gear in the transfer case, and 4.88:1 gears in the axles. It crawls slower than molasses on a cold day in Siberia, but even then it sometimes is too fast. On some obstacles you need to pull up to a certain point and then switch directions quickly. For many obstacles you don't want to roll backwards or risk stalling so with a manual you're not going to be able to stick in the clutch. That means while you're trying to maneuver quickly your vehicle keeps on rolling forward, potentially getting you into trouble. A stock wrangler isn't going to get near the crawl ratio of my CJ-5 so the problem is going to be even worse.

Having driven both offroad I'm going to stand by my advice, an automatic is far simpler to use and honestly is more fun, mostly because there's less points where you feel like one wrong move will kill you. While I love my CJ-5 there has been a few times when it got very dicey, trying to dance over all three pedals at the same time.

The one advantage I can think of for manuals is engine braking. They do make it easier to descend very steep things by putting it into the lowest gear possible and idling down. However, in my experience the benefits of them outweigh this advantage.

The automatic transmission in my Cherokee can engine brake too if I put it in 3 or 2

 

[Fenixgoon]

Thanks for the replies guys

 

[MixMasterTang]

I would guess this person is going to do 90-95% of their driving on-road so I would buy whatever she wants to live with on a daily basis, off roading can be done with either transmission and if she is asking you which transmission is better for off-roading then she probably isn't a very serious offroader (at least not yet). While many of the things Bignate603 are very true I would still get a manual transmission unless it was a dedicated off-road rig.

 

[herm0016]

an auto for off and on road use. i can understand having a manual, but i do not get the blind fascination some people have for it. its nearly as bad as a p&n thread.

 

[Throckmorton]

an auto for off and on road use. i can understand having a manual, but i do not get the blind fascination some people have for it. its nearly as bad as a p&n thread.

A manual is a feature that makes a car fun, like RWD, a convertible top, a good radio, or whatever

 

[Throckmorton]

Thanks for the replies guys

Since your friend seems to be a newb, maybe she should take a class or something. Also, she needs to get full skid plates and armored differential covers. Otherwise she's probably gonna damage something.

 

[natto fire]

Nate covered this with very sound advice. I have owned two Cherokees of the '92 and '00 vintage, both were automatics and both went offroad (the 2000 still does). Not sure what year Jeep she is looking for, but I will point out that the Aisin-Warner tranny in my '92 was loads better than the Chrysler one in the '00. Not sure what year they switched this. I actually liked the build quality much better overall of my '92 even though it was much older.

I can't blame Chrysler for trying to extract as much profit as possible from a once great marque, but once they dropped the straight six and there were Jeeps with independent front suspension it just seemed wrong.

 

[dug777]

A manual is a feature that makes a car fun, like RWD, a convertible top, a good radio, or whatever

Examactly 😉

I love my my MT Prado, and while i could have had my pick of 'soccer mom' equivalent autos with lower kms and less bush use, I 'wanted' an MT, and anything else would have been second best.

Slushboxes are poo onroad (yes, I know you 'can' hold gears on an auto, but it's usually about as smooth, pleasant and intuitive as a giant turd, particularly with older four speed boxes, an especially when you've got a couple tonnes of vehicle behind you). It's inuitive to engine brake in the gear you are currently in, thank you very much, no buggering around with pressing some button or pulling a lever, just take your foot off the gas and you brake 😉 Even popping down a gear in an MT seems way faster and smoother than the admittedly 'agricultural' Nissan and Toyota slushboxes I have tried. I'd drive nothing else out here however, try finding fancy pants Rangerover or even Jeep parts out bush here 😉

Autos always seem to kick down when you need more power on the move, when holding a gear and gassing it would have been fine (turbodiesel Patrol gearboxes, I am looking at you!). Noisy, irritating, and I always wonder if they are geared for fuel economy or 'power' (precious little of that with the 3litre TD Patrol!)..

Offroad they certainly make it easier, but (again) unless you start buggering around and holding gears they do stuff you don't want to when it least suits you. You can't change an MT in soft sand, but an auto dropping a gear in soft sand can still totally fsck you up. Plus they get roasting hot in soft sand for any protracted period, so you often need aftermarket AT cooling. Drop it in the right gear (which only experience will give, I admit, and even then you can still get bitten in the bum) and an MT is locked in, bam 😉

Horses for courses, but people seem too keen to scare folks off MTs. Sure, you need to think about it before you pick a gear and move, but let's be honest, in country so tough that a wrong gearchange with an MT may fsck you up, running at it with an AT is likely to lead to tears too. Better you think about it, plan it and then take it, rather than trundle through with a sense of false security and get uttterly hung up 😉

My 5c, for what it's worth 😉

 

[Throckmorton]

Nate covered this with very sound advice. I have owned two Cherokees of the '92 and '00 vintage, both were automatics and both went offroad (the 2000 still does). Not sure what year Jeep she is looking for, but I will point out that the Aisin-Warner tranny in my '92 was loads better than the Chrysler one in the '00. Not sure what year they switched this. I actually liked the build quality much better overall of my '92 even though it was much older.

I can't blame Chrysler for trying to extract as much profit as possible from a once great marque, but once they dropped the straight six and there were Jeeps with independent front suspension it just seemed wrong.

I don't think they ever switched the transmission.

Interesting fact... the AW4 in the Cherokee was pretty much the same as the automatic in the Supra

 

[IronWing]

Manual is a pain in the butt for offroading. It is really hard to reach the clutch pedal when you're getting bounced around climbing over boulders.

 

[Throckmorton]

Examactly 😉

I love my my MT Prado, and while i could have had my pick of 'soccer mom' equivalent autos with lower kms and less bush use, I 'wanted' an MT, and anything else would have been second best.

Slushboxes are poo onroad (yes, I know you 'can' hold gears on an auto, but it's usually about as smooth, pleasant and intuitive as a giant turd, particularly with older four speed boxes, an especially when you've got a couple tonnes of vehicle behind you). It's inuitive to engine brake in the gear you are currently in, thank you very much, no buggering around with pressing some button or pulling a lever, just take your foot off the gas and you brake 😉 Even popping down a gear in an MT seems way faster and smoother than the admittedly 'agricultural' Nissan and Toyota slushboxes I have tried. I'd drive nothing else out here however, try finding fancy pants Rangerover or even Jeep parts out bush here 😉

Autos always seem to kick down when you need more power on the move, when holding a gear and gassing it would have been fine (turbodiesel Patrol gearboxes, I am looking at you!). Noisy, irritating, and I always wonder if they are geared for fuel economy or 'power' (precious little of that with the 3litre TD Patrol!)..

Offroad they certainly make it easier, but (again) unless you start buggering around and holding gears they do stuff you don't want to when it least suits you. You can't change an MT in soft sand, but an auto dropping a gear in soft sand can still totally fsck you up. Plus they get roasting hot in soft sand for any protracted period, so you often need aftermarket AT cooling. Drop it in the right gear (which only experience will give, I admit, and even then you can still get bitten in the bum) and an MT is locked in, bam 😉

Horses for courses, but people seem too keen to scare folks off MTs. Sure, you need to think about it before you pick a gear and move, but let's be honest, in country so tough that a wrong gearchange with an MT may fsck you up, running at it with an AT is likely to lead to tears too. Better you think about it, plan it and then take it, rather than trundle through with a sense of false security and get uttterly hung up 😉

My 5c, for what it's worth 😉

Offroading in America is different from offroading in Australia. More rocks and stunts, less expedition

 

[Bignate603]

Offroading in America is different from offroading in Australia. More rocks and stunts, less expedition

I agree. Most people offroading here are doing trails that are littered with a series of difficult obstacles where you have to slow down to an absolute crawl.

The one exception I can think of off the top of my head is people building stuff to bomb through the desert around here at high speeds. In general they'd choose manuals. They aren't going down that difficult trails though, typically sticking to trails where they can keep the speeds up pretty high.