JD Powers says our cars are getting less reliable

[monkeydelmagico]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/02/12/used-cars-less-dependable-jdpower/5403139/

"The widely watched report card on how well cars hold up over time says owners of three-year-old vehicles (2011 models) reported 6% more troubles than owners of three-year-old vehicles (2010 models) did last year.

Power says it's the first time quality has declined since the 1998 survey."
​

How Lexus manages to be an order of magnitude better than the competition every year remains a mystery to me. I also would have thought Hyundai would score at least average but no.... Nice to see GM, Chevy, and Caddy all above average. Ford seems to be taking a bit of a dump.

Brand scores: The number indicates problems per 100 cars for 2011 models; lower is better.

• Lexus (68)
• Mercedes-Benz (104)
• Cadillac (107)
• Acura (109)
• Buick (112)
• Honda (114)
• Lincoln (114)
• Toyota (114)
• Porsche (125)
• Infiniti (128)
• BMW (130)
• Subaru (131)
• Chevrolet (132)
• Jaguar (132)
• Mazda (132)
• GMC (133)
• INDUSTRY AVERAGE (133)
• Ford (140)
• Nissan (142)
• Audi (151)
• Kia (151)
• Volvo (152)
• Scion (153)
• Chrysler (155)
• Volkswagen (158)
• Ram (165)
• Mitsubishi (166)
• Hyundai (169)
• Jeep (178)
• Land Rover (179)
• Dodge (181)
• Mini (185)

 

[drbrock]

I did not know Lexus was that good. Maybe I should give them a chance when I get rid of my tl is 3-5 years.

 

[brainhulk]

My pop always said the more crap they add to cars, the more stuff there is to break.

 

[Naeeldar]

Pretty much expected. These numbers are fun too because if you aren't lexus it pretty much doesn't matter they all have issues.

 

[bruceb]

About as expected as more and more items are designed to be "throwaway" or non repairable. Just look at the damage to a car from a simple low speed crash, in terms of parts, fixability and cost to repair. For example, the new Camaro's are all plastic hood, front fenders, bumper cover and who know how much else. That crap just will not take any type of impact.

 

[NutBucket]

As I understand it part of it has to do with electronics. Apparently if you bring in your car to complain about a malfunctioning nav system and it turns out to be user error it still counts against you. I recall Ford having that issue because MyTouch or whatever is not the most intuitive system for a non-techie.

 

[schmuckley]

My pop always said the more crap they add to cars, the more stuff there is to break.

Your pop is right.Cars need 0 computers in order to run,drive,turn, and stop.
Funny how an older Dodge truck get better gas mileage than a newer one;yet has more horsepower.

 

[desy]

Yep a lot of Fords issues is with the my Ford touch which isn't broken but a 'problem' for users. Today instead of blown transmissions , the complaints are, door trim slipped off.
And yes as people pile on more features there is more to break.
I look at all the stuff my current car has, my air lumbar support has snapped a hose or something , not a problem in my last 10 cars

 

[MrPickins]

I always take user reported surveys with a grain of salt...

 

[Jimzz]

bullshit!!!

This is not a reliability study but an opinion on quality.

Ford dropped in "reliability" due to the radio being hard to use. Not it stopped working but people did not know how to use it.
When the H2 hummer came out it was near the bottom even though it was built on a current Tahoe platform/drivetrain. The 2 biggest issues were it got bad gas mileage and rode like a truck.

Car company A could have major Transmission issues but if car company B has more people complaining about the ride, radio, seat fabric, etc... car company B will show up worse.
Most American and Asian car companies make cars/trucks that if taken care of will have very few major problems. Yes some will lose in the reliability lottery but most will be fine.

After we got rid of our POS Mercedes we cross shopped Hyundai, Infinity, and Cadillac. As long as it was not European car I was happy with any Asian/American car made in the last 10years that was taken care of.

 

[Doppel]

This is why I don't put much (or really any) stock in JD Power. I think it just grabs its numbers horrendously. I don't think it even accounts for miles driven over time, but really who here thinks that the average Porsche is going to have less problems than the average Nissan, if kept for the same number of years and driven the same miles?

And Lexus half as many issues as Toyota? How? They are under the same umbrella, share a lot of parts. I can't imagine for a second that, on the whole, Lexus is actually MORE reliable than Toyota, and certainly not twice as reliable.

 

[Pacfanweb]

I always take user reported surveys with a grain of salt...

Pretty much. People that spend a lot on a car will tend to not admit if it's given them problems.

 

[smackababy]

MB less than the industry average? Don't let vdub know, he'll claim twice as many went unreported!

And this confirms if Skynet doesn't let Lexus build our new robot overlords, they won't win.

 

[Jimzz]

Pretty much. People that spend a lot on a car will tend to not admit if it's given them problems.

You just described my sister in law and her love for audi.

She had a convertible A4 with the V6. I was always working on that car. Fuel pump, ignition coils, bulb issues, electrical issues, leaking clamps, etc...
Blew a head gasket with less than 60k on it.

Yet if you asked her it was the greatest car in the world with no major issues other than having to dump it on CarMax as the head work would cost to much.

Talked her into a is350 convertible Lexus and only problem in the first year was a minor recall and that's it.

 

[JimKiler]

As I understand it part of it has to do with electronics. Apparently if you bring in your car to complain about a malfunctioning nav system and it turns out to be user error it still counts against you. I recall Ford having that issue because MyTouch or whatever is not the most intuitive system for a non-techie.

That explains a lot, I have owned two new cars without any issues and it is crazy to think the average is more than 1 issue per car when you see 133 issues on 100 cars.

Give me real stats like is my car going to break down or not.

 

[shortylickens]

Am surprised Mitsubishi is doing so well. A few years ago they and Suzuki were way down at the bottom of the list with twice as many failures as the next one up (I think it was Cadillac).

 

[ThatsABigOne]

I am not surprised that Japan is still on top. These stats remind me of Consumer Reports 'reliability' rating on cars.

 

[Arkaign]

Reliable =! JD Power.

It's spectacular bullcrap. Looking at anything they put out will only make you dumber for having wasted your time.

TrueDelta is an order of magnitude better. Not perfect, but actually somewhat useful.

 

[Arkaign]

That explains a lot, I have owned two new cars without any issues and it is crazy to think the average is more than 1 issue per car when you see 133 issues on 100 cars.

Give me real stats like is my car going to break down or not.

http://www.truedelta.com/

They actually TRY. Their methodology is INFINITELY better than JDP's crap.

JD Power is as corrupt as can be, and is actually a negative for the industry. They should be disbanded.

 

[mmntech]

Working on the car lot, I've had experience with most of the brands on that list
Lexus
Mercedes-Benz
Acura
Honda
Lincoln
Toyota
Infiniti
BMW
Chevrolet
Mazda
GMC
Ford
Nissan
Audi
Kia
Chrysler
Volkswagen
Ram
Hyundai
Jeep
Dodge

We didn't keep these cars long but they did get driven hard. We also got a lot of customers in needing repairs for their own vehicles, so you got a lot of anecdotal stories.

The fact that VW and Chrysler are at the bottom of the list is 100% a fair assessment. I have yet to meet anyone who hasn't run into major issues with these vehicles. Even fresh from the factory, Dodges just weren't good. They still have awful transmissions. It's no wonder they can sell a minivan for the same price as a Civic.

As for Volkswagen, they're over-engineered but have poor build quality. Electrical problems have been a major issue for years and years, but they never fix them. The fact that they cost so much is insult to injury. You can't look me straight in the face and seriously tell me the Golf is worth $20k. I'd take a Fit, Yaris, heck, even a Fiesta any day over it.

I would put Hyundai and Kia a bit higher on the list. Don't recall us having any major issues. They seem well built.

I'd probably put Chev a little lower and Ford a little higher. Mind you I'm biased against Chev after spending an ungodly amount of time driving Cobalts. Their SUVs and trucks are top notch though.

For the top of the list, it's about right.

 

[Thump553]

I question whether this study is overly inclusive of problems like "my Bluetooth phone won't link with my car radio"-issues that didn't even exist a few years ago and are primarily software problems. I would bet this is a big chunk of complaints about Ford vehicles.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

bullshit!!!

This is not a reliability study but an opinion on quality.

Ford dropped in "reliability" due to the radio being hard to use. Not it stopped working but people did not know how to use it.
When the H2 hummer came out it was near the bottom even though it was built on a current Tahoe platform/drivetrain. The 2 biggest issues were it got bad gas mileage and rode like a truck.

Car company A could have major Transmission issues but if car company B has more people complaining about the ride, radio, seat fabric, etc... car company B will show up worse.
Most American and Asian car companies make cars/trucks that if taken care of will have very few major problems. Yes some will lose in the reliability lottery but most will be fine.

After we got rid of our POS Mercedes we cross shopped Hyundai, Infinity, and Cadillac. As long as it was not European car I was happy with any Asian/American car made in the last 10years that was taken care of.

:thumbsdown:

"Biggest contributor: new engines and transmissions accounted for nearly 6 of the 7 additional problems per 100 vehicles in this year's study. "The decline in quality is particularity acute for vehicles with four-cylinder engines," Power reports."
​

Hmmmm..... I'd rather the radio not work than the engine/trans

 

[BoberFett]

I question whether this study is overly inclusive of problems like "my Bluetooth phone won't link with my car radio"-issues that didn't even exist a few years ago and are primarily software problems. I would bet this is a big chunk of complaints about Ford vehicles.

A friend of mine has had nothing but trouble with the electronics in her Edge. The nav system fails to load half the time with an SD card fault, the backup camera sometimes doesn't come on when she puts it in reverse, other assorted error messages from the system. You'd think the dome light would be a perfected technology at this point, but when the rest of the software seems to be acting up, the dome light stays on for a long time after exiting the vehicle. It seems like some of these auto info systems were slapped together in the last few years without a whole lot of testing. I haven't had issues with the touch panel in my Toyota, but it's not nearly as complex as some of these fully integrated systems. Mine is just radio, phone, and TPMS.

 

[KentState]

A friend of mine has had nothing but trouble with the electronics in her Edge. The nav system fails to load half the time with an SD card fault, the backup camera sometimes doesn't come on when she puts it in reverse, other assorted error messages from the system. You'd think the dome light would be a perfected technology at this point, but when the rest of the software seems to be acting up, the dome light stays on for a long time after exiting the vehicle. It seems like some of these auto info systems were slapped together in the last few years without a whole lot of testing. I haven't had issues with the touch panel in my Toyota, but it's not nearly as complex as some of these fully integrated systems. Mine is just radio, phone, and TPMS.

I have yet to see any electronics lately that "just work". When you start encapsulating all the features of a car into the same unit it can only get worse.

 

[phreaqe]

I have a loaner Fusion titanium while my car is in the shop and i have to say that i LOVE the myford touch stuff. It makes me want to trade in my Hyundai and get a car with it because its just so neat from a nerdy perspective. I have only had the car a few days but so far it has been great and i have not had any issues with it.